Outrage!

[Thine Stalin]

I have been restricted to Svs.C!

As the first stalinist here, and the only stalinist who was PREVIOUSLY not restricted I would like to know why!

I have always presented my views respectfully and without personal insults.

I have never brought my political side into chit chat

I've never gotten into a political discussion outside of THIS forum.

I haven't been racist, nor anti-sematic!

This an outrage and you're not going to hear the end of it, and even if I am allowed back in, I'm going to make a bigger deal out of you letting the other stalinists in too!

[Xvall]

You know, this is just convincing the others to restrict you MORE. If you calm down for a moment, maybe we can all have a discussion and work things out. Why don't you KINDLY state reasons as to why you should be let back in, instead of rambling on about hearing the 'End of It'.

[lenin]

your a fucking prick malte!!!! i've tried to be cortious to you but you've done nothing but ignore me!!!! TS is not a racist and its a fucking disgrace he has been restricted!!!! i was restricted for 'suspision' of racism just because i support NBP (only for the reconstruction of USSR!!!!). you aren't confident enough to debate with stalinists so you have to restrict them!!!! its a discussion board for fuck sake!!!! hold on, i just read your profile, your german, no wonder i don't like you!!!!

[Xvall]

Lenin..
You just proved your racism by saying that you don't like him because he is german.
Now they'll NEVER let you back on full privelages!

[lenin]

27,000,000

[ID2002]

Boyz, Boyz...
can't we all just get along? Lenin...you need to chill out! Your shooting yourself in the foot by being RUDE! Quit insulting others...and they will pay you back with respect.

"if you spit in my face, I will most certianly find away to repay you" .....think before you react!

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

An eye for an eye makes the world blind.......

[The Ax]

Hey,
I disagree with Stalinists STRONGLY but by abusing them and banning them you are making a big mistake. I would love to spit in the face of every Stalinist but unfortuanetly, right now the left needs all the friends it can get. At least hes not a Facist or a neo-liberal.

The Ax

[Capitalist Fighter]

Ax Stalinists are fascists and plus Thine Stalin has revealed himself to be a Nazi. There are links to that in another thread.

[Anarcho]

Sadly, I fear that Malte is becoming that which he fears most. His tactics when it comes to restrictions have become downright Stalinist.

While I'm sure there are those that deserve it, I also feel that there are those that probably don't. For those of you who don't know, the only deciding factor on restrictions is Malte's word.

Now, it is his forum. He can do with it what he wishes.

But as I've stated before, I was restricted without warning, for no reason other than "Some folks said you weren't very socialist" given. I've attempted to defend myself, to no avail, I've asked Malte what I can do to be restored. All to no avail.

Sadly, I find myself coming to this site less and less now. The reason I came here was to learn, and the other areas were good sources for that. But now that I'm restricted, there is little point.

I would recommend to Malte that he may review, periodically, his reasons for restricting or banning, and mayhaps let folks return from Gulag. Or he may wish to give people a chance to defend themselves.

But in the end, it is Malte's forum. If one doesn't like it, one copes or one finds another site.

[James]

I wouldn't say you were a stalinist "Thine stalin"

You said you were a nazi

You disregard others points of view

Your rude

Your threathning

I personaly want you blocked from the whole thing.

James

[Thine Stalin]

Heh, how so? I'll disregard pointless things, or people who rarely have anything good to contribute, I listen to the other stalinists, just as I listen to nateddi, moskitto, red celtic or someone else I forgot his name.

I'm not so much a nazi as in 'kill other ethnic races' and 'white power' but as for the nationalism.

I have broken no rules of any of the boards and thusly should not be restricted

[lenin]

"Quit insulting others...and they will pay you back with respect."

thats a fair comment and i shouldn't of insulted matle but, i've been fucking cortious to him in private messages and he has just not rsponded. and hwen he has it has just been to say, your a national bolshevik, youre no leftist. its bullshit!!!!

"An eye for an eye makes the world blind....... "

remind me again how many austrailia lost during the second world war????

[James]

You said that the jews and all the rest "deserved it". Your sick. You have no regard for human life. You are a nazi. Full stop. Thus you support them. You support everything about them. I think your sick even trying to defend being a nazi.

[lenin]

when did TS say jews deserved it??? i expect you are reffering to the holocaust? i don't recall him saying that. could it be another liberal trying to put words in the mouth of a stalinist?

[Edelweiss]

Stop crying TS! You are much nearer to a total ban than to be allowed to post again in all forums. Many members are in favor of a total ban of you nationalist, anti-humanist idiot. This will forever stay an internationalist community, there's no place for nationalists here. So you better be quiet and stop your pathetic speeches.

[Edelweiss]

And Anarcho, don't forget that many community members have asked me to restrict you into SvsC. Just like many members are voting for a total ban of ThineStalin now. I'm hardly making any decision autocraticly.

[Thine Stalin]

Bann me then, its more trouble than its worth.

To james, I've never even mentioned the holocaust in this forum, ever.

Are you proud of what you are malte? If not then I suggest some counseling to raise your self-esteem. Nationalism is only pride.

[Thine Stalin]

And ALSO!
The stalinists, including myself have not broken any rules. what good is a punishment for nothing? Atleast stalin had reason behind his.

[Edelweiss]

Nationalism is not just pride. You know, if it only would be cheering your football team at the world cup I wouldn't care. It's much more. It's manipulation of the people by the capitalists and fascists for their purposes. Nationalism is like a cancer of the 20th century, and we have to get rid of it. True socialism can only be reached without nations and borders.

[Thine Stalin]

To me thats just idealism that isn't going to work anyway, you seperate people with problems with eachother, and the problems cease.

I don't believe there were any racists before other races were discovered.

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

"An eye for an eye makes the world blind....... "

remind me again how many austrailia lost during the second world war????

Quite a lot

[Capitalist Imperial]

A GREAT EXAMPLE OF COMMUNISM HERE, BANNING, RESTRICITING, AND OPPRESSING OTHERS BECAUSE THEIR VIEW DIFFERS FROM YOURS.

[STALINSOLDIERS]

long lives thin stalin........we comrade must fight together if each and one of us are gone....you wont hear the last of us well come back with rage.......

[Capitalist Imperial]

How poetic,this forum, run/attended by communists, crumbling from within due to dissidents and opposition!!! A microchasm of true communism, it can never work over time.

[Xvall]

Capitalist Imperial,
If you like Thine Stalin so damn much, why don't you start your own board and adopt him!

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 7:33 pm on June 4, 2002
How poetic,this forum, run/attended by communists, crumbling from within due to dissidents and opposition!!! A microchasm of true communism, it can never work over time.


CI, you hypocrite! So you really think that people like ThineStalin would be tolerated in a conservative community?

[Capitalist Imperial]

He would not be liked, but he would be tolerated, our constitution guarantees it.

[Edelweiss]

I'm not talking about an Internet community...

[Capitalist Imperial]

I know, I'm talking about a real life community, and the US constitution that would guarantee his freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, and the right to free assembly! The community he would live in would probably not invite him to the local parties, but he would be guaranteed the right to think and speak as he wishes!!

[Moskitto]

CI, Do you know that Thine Stalin lives in the US?

CI, Do you know that this "Conservative Community" has a constitution?

CI, Do you know that Malte was even refering to the US?

Gee, grow out of your tunnel blindness you fool.

[Moskitto]

P.S. I might adopt Thine Stalin once i've uploaded my website.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Moskitto on 7:59 pm on June 4, 2002
CI, Do you know that Thine Stalin lives in the US?

CI, Do you know that this "Conservative Community" has a constitution?

CI, Do you know that Malte was even refering to the US?

Gee, grow out of your tunnel blindness you fool.


Yes, dude, I understand what is going on,it is you who are not comprehending. Go back and read carefully, and then you can address a response when you feel like arguing facts or philosophy and not you ususal benign personal attacks

[Taj]

Quote: from lenin on 3:56 am on June 4, 2002
27,000,000
I don't know what you are saying here but if you mean people killed by Hitler than I have to say that you are just the f****** racist here those actions took place what? 60jrs ago (don't say that we all have to forget them) it is getting time that we just blaim Hitler not the Germans (o hitler wasn't even a german he was from Ostria)

[James]

Exactly Taj, thats the reason as to why i want you, and you alone banned.

[Moskitto]

Malte Said

CI, you hypocrite! So you really think that people like ThineStalin would be tolerated in a conservative community?

You Said

I know, I'm talking about a real life community, and the US constitution that would guarantee his freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, and the right to free assembly! The community he would live in would probably not invite him to the local parties, but he would be guaranteed the right to think and speak as he wishes!!

Note the absence of anything to do with the US in Malte's post, this "Conservative Community" he is talking about is not actually the US you know.

There are other conservative countries and communities such as Saudi Arabia. And i'd like to see the great benefits of your US constitution for our friend Thine Stalin how it protects his anti-monarchy, pro-stalin views over there. I'd also like to see you excercise your rights to freedom of speech and assembly in a conservative community. Hell, i'd love to see you beheaded in public.

You don't seem to understand that someone isn't neccesarily talking about the US. Or you might not understand that there's countries outside the US. Well, go harvest your grain, Prairies are nice aren't they?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Praries, mountains, valleys, lakes, rivers, oceans, its all great! I now saudi arabia will not tolerate his behavior, they do not offer the freedom that the us does, that is my point. Malte was referring to a conservative community, I thought because he was adressing me, a known american, he was referring to and american conservitive community.

[Xvall]

CI..
You're rambling..
How the hell did this turn into a US vs. Saudi Arabia conversation! We're talking about weather or not TS would be tolerated on RIGHT WING INTERNET boards or something. Which he would not. Because even I am not tolerated on some of those boards.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Malte on 7:50 pm on June 4, 2002
I'm not talking about an Internet community...


You see, Drake, he was NOT talking about an internet community, am I missing something here???

[Capitalist Imperial]

What country r u from, drake???

[Xvall]

The United $tate$ of AmeriKKKa...

[Capitalist Imperial]

If you are that passionate about hating the USA, why are you still here???

[Michael De Panama]

Good point, cappie. My toilet is overflowing, why fix it? I think I'll move to another house. Too bad my house is the center of the neighborhood's plumbing.

(Edited by Michael De Panama at 10:17 pm on June 4, 2002)

[Xvall]

1) I'm too young to move away on my own. If it makes you feel better, I plan on leaving eventually...

2) I have three choices.. The first is to live in the corporate state that opresses people. The second is to live in an equally opressive regime, that follows the corporate state. And Third, is to live in some poor country that has the life drained out of it by the corporate state. Either way.. I have to deal with Amerika..

[Capitalist Imperial]

Yeah, I know, Drake, its always Americas fault. I bet you never move from here, or you will, spend about 2 weeks somewhere else, and then high-tail it back here after you realize how good you really had it.

[lenin]

taj, fuck you!!!! if you think i'm going to forget 27 million of my country men and women for the sake of your politically correct bullshit, you can think a-fucking-gain!!!! who put hitler in power? who backed his war on europe? who let the holocaust go unnoticed? the fucking germans!!!! why was it called the third reich? because the fucking bastards had already tried it twice before!!!! funny how no-one claims to be a nazi when hitler was in power isn't it? well if there were so few nazis, why wasn't he overthrown? because the germans have got an in-built superiority complex!!!! thats why!!!! hitler, the nazis, the army, the ss, the gestapo and the german people wanted to make libenstrum out of my homeland!!!! the fascist fucks didn't get very far though did they? but when they did get into USSR, they burnt villages, killed children, raped women, made men dig ther own graves, why? because the were 'lives not worthy of life'!!! you ignorant fuck!!! its fuckers like you who let germany get away with this!!! someone once said, germany will pay 150 years for what they did in WWII! fuck that!!! they'll pay until there fucking country is wiped off the face of the earth!!!! when the red army reached berlin, the tables were turned though weren't they? the fucking germans were getting killed!!! the fucking aryan 'superior' women were getting fucking raped and deservedly so!!!! the fuckers were who put hitler in power!!!! hitler got in becuase he promised a 1000 year reich and an end to the jewish problem!!!! but the germans are so innocent aren't they???? stalin should of dropped a fucking a-bomb on that vile state that is germany!!!! don't ever, EVER say i should forget 27,000,000 dead!!! including members of my fucking family!!!! and marc OS revolutionry, austrailia didn't lose fucking shit in that war!!! how many australin town were destroyed? did 27,000,000 die? fuck did they!!!! everyone on this site thinks there so fucking smart don't they? they think they fucking know it all don't you? you don't know fucking shit!!!! you know what you know out of text books!!! i know for fucking real!!! i've had to listen grandmother cry her eyes out telling the story of how the germans killed people in her town!!!! the memories haunt her every day of her life!!! she has had to ive with that every day of her life!!!! and the fucking germans should have to live with it every day of there lives too!!!!!!!!

[Edelweiss]

lenin, this may surprise you, but I agree with lots of things you just said. Read my posts in the GPT forums about the Dresden bombings. You know what? I'm very gratefull to Stalin for finally kicking Hitler's ass in Stalingrad! But please don't blame me for the Nazi crimes, I'm born over 30 years after the end of the war.
NIE WIEDER DEUTSCHLAND!

[lenin]

BTW, i am aware i have took off my stalinist quote because, although i agree with it, on this occasion, i don't.
27,000,000 isn't a statistic because the people who died were completely innocent. just as the 6,000,000 who died in the holocaust were innocent. stalins victims were not innocent but thats a different topic all together.
27,000,000, soviets, 6,000,000 jews, millions of others, how the fuck can you live in germany malte?

[lenin]

malte, i'm not blaming you. but your country, to me, represents evil. if i was born in germany, i would emmigrate and get a new lifestyle somewhere else. i am aware you are anti-hitler and an internatioanlist which i respect but, as i say the country, IMO, does not deserve to exist. the country and the attitude of the people is what put hitler in power. no country is better than another, i know you realise this malte but many still don't.

[Capitalist Imperial]

ok, ok, ok lenin... calm down

No one here likes nazis, the US and soviets fought together to destroy them!!!

[Edelweiss]

So, lenin, what I don't get than is when you are so anti-nazi and anti-German why the hell do you support a party which obviesly mixes Nazi and communist ideology??? You should know better!

[lenin]

check my new post.

[Anarcho]

Quote: from Malte on 5:18 pm on June 4, 2002
And Anarcho, don't forget that many community members have asked me to restrict you into SvsC. Just like many members are voting for a total ban of ThineStalin now. I'm hardly making any decision autocraticly.



I understand that, I just disagree with a closed room trial wherin I'm not given a chance to defend myself. The whole thing smacks of totalitarianism. And also note, that I'm not saying you don't have the right to do whatever you feel you need to do. It's your board. Here, in this little slice of cyberspace, you are god. Your rule, no matter what, is absolute.

I'm just hoping for a chance at justice, and mayhaps the chance to face my accusers and defend myself.

Justice and democracy. Hallmarks of the society we're all supposed to be working towards, yes?

[Capitalist Fighter]

I'd have to agree completely with Anarcho on this one. There is a question in the Chit Chat forum titled "Ever been stabbed in the back?", i sense he has by his "comrades".

[James]

Lenin you are being very narrow minded i'm afraid. If you took the time to study for an hour - the rise of the nazis you would realize it wasn't the "germans" who got him in. I will give some short examples for you.

FACT NUMBER 1.
The nazi party never had a majority in the reichstag.
FACT NUMBER 2.
60% of germans at the time saw Hitler as no threat, or saw Hitler and his troop of die hards as comedy. Its similar to the situation in the UK today, with the BNP. No one really likes them that much.
FACT NUMBER 3.
Hilter came to power by chance. He was made chancellor to keep him "under control". It is a well known fact that the right wing conservatives said "we've hired him" after hitler came to power.
FACT NUMBER 4.
No real opposition. After the reichstag fire (which i won't say the nazis did as a fact, because it can't be proved completely) Hitler gave himself full power. With this power he STOPPED freedom of speech, press, other partys, other debates, party gatherings etc etc. Many liberals and left wingers were taken away to concentration camps on the night of the fire.
FACT NUMBER 5.
FEAR. People didn't want to get involoved with these brown shirted thugs that were murdering politicans each day. No doubt you (lenin) would have stopped them...


So in fact the german people on a whole did not want hitler. They just wanted to live their normal lifes. I imagine this would have happened in any country, under the same conditions.

JAmes

[Reuben]

Quote: from lenin on 12:21 am on June 5, 2002
who let the holocaust go unnoticed? the fucking germans!!!! why was it called the third reich? because the fucking bastards had already tried it twice before!!!! funny how no-one claims to be a nazi when hitler was in power isn't it? well if there were so few nazis, why wasn't he overthrown? because the germans have got an in-built superiority complex!!!!


This essentialist and racist attitude is disgusting. The whole idea of a whole national group haveing "An in-built superiority complex" uundermines the whole way we as socialists understand the world.

I thought that race science was defeated in the 19th century.

[lenin]

FACT NUMBER 6: your an idiot!

i'll answer later

[lenin]

wow reuben! i thought you were jewish??? are you going to let these nazi fuckers get away with this? are you telling me there isn't a general sense of arrogance from german people? of course there is! what other country in the world would back a man whos main electoral promise was libenstraum for the superior aryan race?
james, i haven't got much time but i will say that, when hitler was notin power or in his early time in power, the german people knew his ideas. if a reincarnation of adolf hitler ran for US president spouting shit like the destruction of the jewish race, liebenstraum for the superior american people and a 1000 year empire, he wouldn't be allowed to run (and deservedly so!). and if he did, he would get about 0.1% of the vote! the nazi party received about 10,000,000 votes! if they only had a small minority in the reich stag, how come the country didn't unite to overthrow hitler? the german people backed the war and the fuckers knew about the holocaust. i seen a program on it. when the jews arrived on trains, children would shout out that they were going to make hair out of you! it makes me sick when pricks like you think you know everything from looking at a text book or watching private ryan. go to any ukrainian town and metion the word 'german' and you'll see how people feel! go to people in leningrad (st petersburg) and how ask people about the germans, and if they should be forgiven.
its strange that the only person willing not to let the evil nazis off the hook is malte, a german! yes his proves not all germans have a superiority cmoplex, but there is a large majority who do.
and reuben, what the fuck are you going on about with race science? race science was not defeated! how do you explain how blacks make better sprinters? how scandanavians make better strongmen? this is fact. also, it is culture tha shapes things too. jewish culture is a culture of greed so it explains why so many jews are prominent capitalists. in russian and american cultures, sports are important so these two countries are good at sport. and in germany, nationalism is (or was) the culture. this explans hitlers rise to power!

[James]

I'm an idiot? Just for showing you some facts...hmmm


You seem to think that all germans welcomed the nazis. Where this is simply not true. There was alot of oposition in Nazi germany, that i'm sure you will be unaware of.

1. Communist and social democrat parties
2. Youth groups
3. The churches
4. The army

1.
I'm sure i don't have to explain the type of stuff they would have done, although to you and your "comrades" they will seem as inferior because they didn't try to establish a communist totalitarian state...

2.
Try looking up a few of these;
-The White Rose Group
-The Edelweiss Pirates
-The Swing Movement

3.
Look so of these up whilst your at it;
-The Bishop of Munster
-Pastor Niemr
-Dietrich Bonhoeffer

4.
I'm sure you are aware of the many plots hatched up by the army to get rid of hitler. If you want an example look up
-July bomb plot

James

(ps...more to come...)

[lenin]

well these fucking groups didn't do much fucking good did they???? because they did fuck all while bastard german were responsible for 50,000,000+ deaths!!!! innocent lives!!!! these groups didn't do shit because they didn't have popualr support!!! and if they did, they would of overthrown hitler! and you can't say they were scared too. if i was living in a country and a man came into power threatening 'libenstraum' if i had popular support, i would stop this man or die trying!!!!

[James]

i posted whilst you were posting yours. Thus no reply.

That post has made me feel very dissapointed in you. Don't try to make everything so final. You claim i pretend to know everything, and that all my knowladge is from "text books". hhmmmm Says you, who "saw it on a program" i'm really dissapointed in that you said that!!!

Before hitler came to power he was very "pro peace". I thought everyone knew this...like with the english primeminister returning, and saying "peace in our time".

They did try to unite against him. Look at my last few posts again.

[James]

Lenin your posts don't add up to anything. You are showing how little you know on the whole thing. You think its as simple as all this? if you do i pitty you.

Many DID DIE TRYING. And the nazis used fear as a major weapon on their own people. You know, like the whole gestapo thing?

[James]

Also when they made hitler chancellor, the nazis only had two seats.

EDIT: Just so that you don't use your standard "text book" abuse at me again, i'll have you know as well as studying it at school, i have done emense studying out of school, in my own time, have visited Germany and major nazi key historic sites, have visited sachsenhausen concentration camp and have read many different Germans eyewitness reports. The biggest one being the novel by Sebastian Haffner. Who was at the age of 24 or so around 1930. I can assure you i'm not arguing blindly.

(Edited by James at 1:39 pm on June 5, 2002)

[lenin]

james, i'll admit, pre war germany is NOT my speciality. but people don't assume dictatoral powers, if nobody wants them there. my view is blinded by the effect that the bastard hitler has had on my country and family. and germans let hitler come to power. i will do some research on this matter and come back with an unbiased ipinion. although judging what i know, my views will not change

[James]

Hitler was invited into power by Hiddenburg and Von Pappen (plus another guy whos name i can't remember). The idea of this was to TAME him. Because of his skill in public talking. They thought that they could use him to their advantage, to put a leash on all the right winged extreme parties...this of course did not happen. I can remember a cartoon from the time. It shows Von Pappen and hiddenburg carrying hitler along, into power. It displays how it really was. I'll try and find it on the net for you...

[lenin]

yes but what i'm saying is this. in england now, tony blair and gordon brown could not just put someone in an important governmental position if the man was a neo-nazi. the people would go insane. hitler was a known war-monger (even if he did say he wanted' peace'). and he frequently discussed the jewish question. no country in the world woudl put keep a man like this in power....exept germany!!!!

[James]

You can't compare modern day UK and pre ww2 Germany. Completely different. Hitler offered answers to unemployment, inflation and reperations. These were the key points. He offered stability. Thats how hiddenburg and Von pappen saw him i expect, as stability. He did creat stability too, if you knew naything about the period in german history between Strassemen and Hitler. You would know how up and down it was. The people just wanted to live their lives. And i stress again, the people didn't get hitler into power, two individuals did so. And hitler came to absoulte power by using article 48 (i think, or is it 24/28...i forget). Which turns the propirtional representation into a dictatorship. Similar to the new star wars film!!!

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from lenin on 1:07 pm on June 5, 2002
FACT NUMBER 6: your an idiot!

i'll answer later


"You're" an idiot.

[lenin]

is that all you've got de panama? i followed up that comment with a responce! speaking of responces, i responded to you points in 'tatalitrian communists' and you haven't said shit!

[Reuben]

Lenin, I agree with you that a great proportion of the German population was complicit in the atrocities.

I just do not think that that any national group has any 'in built' traits.

[lenin]

not 'in built' as in genetic. but culturul. the german culture promoted (and maybe still does) extreme nationalism. the jewish culture, IMO, promotes capitalism (i know you won't agree with me). the scandanavian culture promotes machoism as does the culture of latin america. the USA culture promotes faith and religion. many cultures promote different things. this is why when i berate whole races or cultures, i'm not being 'racist', i;'m just giving my general opinon on the particular culture. i''m not saying i hate each person of that culture.

[Reuben]

so what aspect of slavic culture promoted the racism and mass murders that have existed in the russian empire for centuries.

[James]

Maybe its just communist culture in the east to have a dictator and kill lots of people too....

[Edelweiss]

I guess the historical truth about Nazi Germany is somewhere between what James and lenin said. But I agree that German culture has a tendency to extreme nationalism and superiority. What is making me sick is that this tendency is slowly coming back. We'll not face a new Nazi Germany, of course not, but Germany is again more power and influence. Bush recently said during his speech to the Bundestag: "A strong German nation is good for the world". We saw how good the German nation is for the world two times in the last century. I think that Germany should have learned from history and should never join any war anywhere in the world. Instead of this Germany actively helped to ignite the powder keg of the balkans. German troops are now fighting again in imperialistic wars around the world. It's just sad and depressing to see.
I'm not resenting lenin his hatred for the Germans, I can understand it if you look at the crimes that the Nazis have done to his family.

[James]

I suppose its the same in many countries. Countries like pride. Take us english for example. We have some of the worse racists in the world. Look at last august and Oldham. Look at the BNP, Look at english football. I;d say that every county likes its pride.

[lenin]

slavic culture and racism? hmmm, i wouldn't say our cultue was particulalry racist (although kprf is institutionaly anti-semitic). i would say the racism that went on under the russian empire could be put down to imperialist monarchism. don't get me wrong though, slavic culture is not perfect. great russian chauvanism is probobly a big factor in russias violent history. violence in russia isn't as big a thing as it is in england or the west. it is taken for granted. that could be seen as a bad aspect of slavic/russian culture.

[guerrillaradio]

Lenin's anti-Nazi attacks brought the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" into my head. Really...

And on your (Lenin's) point about how come the Nazis weren't resisted, I would have thought you, of all people, would have known. That old cherry authorianism. When you create a police state, then opposition is nigh on impossible, so that they can "eliminate enemies of the people", as you would say. You see how police states can go wrong now??

Finally, you wonder why you get banned, when you say to Malte (the board's administator, might I add), "I don't like you...you're German". Well, here's my thought: I don't like you, you're Stalinist.

[lenin]

i will apologise to malte as that was a bad thing to say. i was just angry at the time. i don't hate all germans but i am not a fan of the german culture or german nation in general. just as czechoslovakia is not a fan of USSR. too much bad blood basically. i sometimes let may hate for certain germans spill over into a hate for all germans. this is bad, but it is human nature sometimes.
anyway guerillaradio, you can not compare a police state based on hate and racism, to a poice state whos ultimate goal is equality for all. the enemies of soviet union were nothing like enemies of nazi germany. soviet enemies were capitalists or bourgeois liberals, nazi enemies were commnist comrades or simply people who weren't 6'2 blonde hair blue eyes aryan! you cannot compare the two.

[PaulDavidHewson]

I can honestly say that I hate germans :)

But that probably has something to do with that new hit their have in their german music top-100 :P
8-0 was shitty, but I like the 1-1 ;)

[Michael De Panama]

anyway guerillaradio, you can not compare a police state based on hate and racism, to a poice state whos ultimate goal is equality for all.

The only way I could tell that the "police state whose ultimate goal is equality for all" was referring to Stalinism is that I know that you are a Stalinist. If you were a Nazi, you could have said the exact same thing. The Nazis want an equal race of people, all looking the same, all acting the same, all working the same. This is the Nazi's goal. The Stalinist police state is responsible for the deaths of millions of people simply based on their race. They may have killed more Jews than Hitler.

It's easily comparable.

[lenin]

"The Stalinist police state is responsible for the deaths of millions of people simply based on their race."

based on race?? how???? i would like some evidence of this!!!!

"They may have killed more Jews than Hitler."

err....what???? hitler killed maybe 6,000,000 jews. 1/3 of the jewish populaton in the world!!! there was only about 800,000 jews in USSR in stalnists times. maths isn't my subject, but that doesn't work out!!!!

[Capitalist]

Lenin is no saint either.

[PaulDavidHewson]

Lenin, you sound like a hard-core nazi prick who is denying the fact that the holocaust every happened.

Russia has openly addmitted alot of crimes that were commited against the people of Russia in Stalins days of reign and you are asking for evidence??

[lenin]

de panama was claiming stalin killed more jews than hitler and his 'purges' were racially motivated. this is bullshit! find me some evidence that suggests otherwise and i will listen to you.

[PaulDavidHewson]

Lenin I suggest you read up on the new thread:

August 1952: Stalins racist purges.

We have some facisnating stuff there on Stalin his purges and in particular jewsih purges.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from lenin on 5:35 pm on June 5, 2002
you can not compare a police state based on hate and racism, to a poice state whos ultimate goal is equality for all.

Take out "equality for all", and insert "equality for poor pro-Leninist straight anti-semites", pretty much like you really Lenin. The objective of your proposed state and Nazi Germany are pretty much the same: eradicate all those who are different to yourself (or how you'd like to be) under some blanket claim that they are "enemies of the people". Surely the people should be able to decide who their enemies are eh??

[lenin]

i would have economic equality for all including gays, blacks and jews! but you know my position on homosexuality socially, that would be banned, but they would be given the same chances as anyone else economically. as for jews, they too would be given the same economic rights but i would strongly suggest they drop the jewish culture. i personally would like an end to the religion of judaism but when you start actually trying to enforce that, you end up like hitler. i would try to end all organised religion but same goes as above, it would be very hard without tunring into another holocaust. i would DEFINATLY keep an eyes on anti-leninists. if they were proven anti-leninists, they would be straight in the gulags! or at least told to keep quiet.
anyway, i think my society would be very economically fair. everyne would be given equal oppurtunity.

[RGacky3]

Lenin, I think personal opinions (such as anti-jewish culture, or anti gay) should not become polecies.

[Edelweiss]

From politicalcompass.org:
"If you could get Hitler and Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard authoritarians would find plenty of common ground."
Although I think that Hitler was far worser than Stalin, Stalin didn't do anything which is compareable to the holocaust. BUT both Stalin and Hitler's style of governing is based on massive repression, intimidation and persecution. Both are responisble for the deaths of millions of innoccents. A Stalinist is without any moral and ethics, he's the "evil communist" that the cappies want's to see in us.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Not comparable to the holocaust????? Stalin killed 50 million+, much worse than the holocaoust!!!

[lenin]

what the fuck are you talking about!!!! where is the 50,000,000 bodies??? go to my thread 'how many did stalin really kill?'. stalin didn't kill as many as hitler and he killed political enemies. he didn't kill based on race!!!! worse than the holocaust...thats fucking bullshit!!!

[Michael De Panama]

The estimate is between 5,000,000 and 30,000,000 people. It's still worse than the Holocaust, IMO, because Stalin got away with it. He DID kill based on race. He even killed his own supporters.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from lenin on 7:25 pm on June 5, 2002
if they were proven anti-leninists, they would be straight in the gulags! or at least told to keep quiet."Equality for All who Agree with the Rulers of the Nation" . . . I wonder how good that would look on a bumper sticker? Bush fans and Stalin fans could both buy them.

Lindsay

[Capitalist Imperial]

I don't think people in the US who disagree with Bush are denied equality. Could you explain?

[Moskitto]

Stalin did not kill 50 million people, If Stalin killed 50 million people in Corvee labour which is mainly targetted at males, out of Russias population of 165 million at the time, assuming that 50% of them were males, there would be only be 30 million males left in Russia, Then Russia loses annother 20 million fighting Nazi Germany and guess what? there's only 10 million males left, how were they supposed to fight the German invasion with supposedly inferior equipment? Basically, if Stalin did kill 50 million people, the Nazis would have walked over the Russians whever the winter was cold or not.

[lenin]

good post Moskitto!!!!

you still need to drop the luxemburg quote though.

[James]

It is true what lenin and moskitto have said. The number killed by stalin has been exagerated. Many western counters have counter soviets who died in the war for example. Thats alot of people. But it doesn't change the fact that Stalin ran a police state, whos primary weapon was fear. Thus why i'm against stalinism.

[Moskitto]

that isn't actually my theory, it's the theory of a part time atrocitologist/historian, I just agree with it. My personal opinion is that Stalin wasn't actually as bad as he's made out to be, top 5 most evil people, but not number 1, that title goes to Pol Pot in my mind.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Yeah, Pol Pot was nasty

[Moskitto]

yeah, I mean, Hitler built some camps and sent people he didn't like to them, and put a few into gas chambers. Pol Pot on the other hand decided to build 1 big camp and send everyone to it, and then bayonetted anyone who was somehow not quite right for the Utopia.

Other people who are nasty but never seem to get mentioned are Leopold II and Tamerlane.

[Moskitto]

then there is Lothar von Trotha the man responsible for the century's first genocide, not the Armenian Genocide, but the Herero Genocide. Not many people know that Germany commited 2 genocides on 2 separate occasions in the 20th century.