Comrads Unite

[RGacky3]

SS, Thine Stalin, Lenin........... Michael de Panama, lardlad, Nateddi. Why are we fighting, we are all comrads, wheather we lean more to authoritarian communism or liberal communism. Nothing can ever get done if we keep this up. Why can't we stop being so hard headed and be able to accept other types of communism, and be flexible. Our main concern is Capitalism, Capitalism cannot be stoped if we keep on fighting like this. So I beg, Comrads Unite, don't fight.

(Edited by RGacky3 at 11:36 pm on June 3, 2002)

[Xvall]

No!
I can understand your point, I believed in the same thing. But Thine Stalin is a KNOWN and ADMITTED NAZI, Lenin is just a homophobic KGB-Lover!

[lenin]

i'm willing to fight on the side of liberal communists but i doubt the feeling is mutual.
the stupid thing is that, me, TS, SS and redsoviet are seen as allies here (which is true) but we might have COMPLETELY different social views. but we are united in our view that communism is an economic theory. de panama, james, guerillaradio etc cannot see that. if we were to put all social views aside, we would be united because our common goal is the same, communism! we just have different ideas on how to achive it basically.

[RGacky3]

Your all communists, sure you have social differences, but that can be worked out later, as Communists our first convern is capitalism.

[lenin]

i'm in total agreement. but is everyone else?

[Edelweiss]

Todays Nazis are also very anti-capitalist. But that doesn't mean that I would fight with them. If we fight with them we already have lost. Read my sig, that's all I have to say concerning that.

[Xvall]

Okay lenin,
I understand you somewhat..
And I apologize for the personal insults..
But I still think you need to sort out this anti-gay thing,
And I am POSITIVE that Thine Stalin is a Nazi..

[Menshevik]

TS is a damn Nazi, no way we should "unite" with him.

[RGacky3]

Look perhaps they may have some anti-semetic views, or they may have said a few things, but common. They are not Nazi's, Nazism is compleatly anti communist. I am sure that in a communist system, lenin or SS or thine stalin will not try and oppress and jews or gays, he may not like them, but that does not mean he will oppress them. They are our comrads and it sickens me to see you people fight them. Lenin here is trying to make peace, he wan'ts to put his defferences behind and unite under the communist cause. You Two (DD and Malte) are accusing them of being Nazis and your being unwilling to stop the fighting. We could get a lot more done if we had Lenins Attitude, WE ARE ALL COMRADS.

[Xvall]

Gacky, you missed out..
We're not saying he's a Nazi because of soem 'anti-semetic' views. He has ADMITTED that he is a nazi on several occasions! He has also said that the people stalin killed deserved it. He's not a stalinist, He's a NAZI!

[Capitalist Imperial]

LOL, I love it, this is one of thre reasons your system fails!!! Disidents and opposition and free debate is counter-productive to a centrist ideology!!!

[RGacky3]

then why are you al against lenin and SS?

personally I'd like to hear from THine Stalin and see if he is a Nazi, if he is, well then I see your point, If he is a communist with a few anti-semetic views, then he's one of our comrads.

[lenin]

TS is no nazi!!!! if he was, he wouldn't be allowed to post all over the forum. i was banned on 'suspision' of racism so i think if TS was a nazi, he would be banned. he is an authoritarian communist (a stalinist). stalinism has some common ground with nazism, but the ideologies are still very different.

[Edelweiss]

At least for members like RedSoviet I would agree that we all should calm down a bit and find back to a more respectfull discussion. But this is a leftist community and we shouldn't tolerate right-wing views like nationalism or homphobia here. Those things should be denounced very loadly.

[RGacky3]

Stalinism is still a type of communism, which means it is leftist.

Cappieimperial. you talk about our system not working becouse of some fighting. jesus look at your system dems, repubs fighting their asses off even though they are basically the same, thats capitalism. these dissagreements have nothing to do with communism they are personal dissagreements.

[Nateddi]

I am not fighting anyone, I am calmly observing two sides duke it out :)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Thats my point, gacky, a democratic system with checks and balances thrives off of ebate and opposing views, it is tough in the short term but great in the long run. Opposing views aren't allowedin communism, and that leads to dissatisfaction within the polis.

[RGacky3]

ahhh good, why can't every one follow Lenins and Neteddis example.

[RGacky3]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 12:53 am on June 4, 2002
Thats my point, gacky, a democratic system with checks and balances thrives off of ebate and opposing views, it is tough in the short term but great in the long run. Opposing views aren't allowedin communism, and that leads to dissatisfaction within the polis.


again some one trys to make it look like communism is against democracy. which is compleat BS, there are plenty of examples of communist democracys. its COmmunism against capitalism.

[Xvall]

Communism is manily economic. It doen't guarentee no democracy, in fact, marx calls for the proletariot to set up a democratic society. And TS is a Nazi, I don't care what you say, Panama can show you links.

[Capitalist Imperial]

LOL, in concept, yes, communism is merely economic, but again, in practice it always leads to a centrist government, because $$$ = power, they are symbient,one will affect/dictate the other. Communist economics = centrist government, free market economics = democratic government, history shows us this over and over again

[lenin]

malte, seriously now, i am a left winger. if i was a right winger, i would say so wouldn't i? my core beleifs are the beliefs put forward in the communist manifesto. i may stray from the leftist norm on certain issues but i am still a hardcore marxist.
i don't mind you attacking my views, but by restricting me to this forum alone, my views aren't being heard are they? you could say, a stalinist demanding free speech, thats irony, but this isn't a country, its a internet discussion forum. what i say will probobly not effect anyones views and you should be confident enough in your views to know (in your mind) that they are the correct views.
if you have nothing but libertarian communists on the whole forum, you just go round in circles. i've seen it so far. the typical GT thread is something like, 'fuck america, look what they do in the third world' and everyone just comes on and agrees with each other like sheep. there is no discussion. you need leftists with differing opinions.
why won't you let me on the other forums? i still can't understand it. this forum is for debating isn't it? even if i was racist (which i personally don't think i am) i wouldn't just come on and say, fuck all jews, blacks, indians and chinese, would i. i would work it into a construtive argument.
come on malte, i've sent you personal messages but you haven't responded. i'll ask you one more time. will you let me on the rest of the forum?

[Thine Stalin]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 12:24 am on June 4, 2002
Gacky, you missed out..
We're not saying he's a Nazi because of soem 'anti-semetic' views. He has ADMITTED that he is a nazi on several occasions! He has also said that the people stalin killed deserved it. He's not a stalinist, He's a NAZI!


Ehhh.. somewhat hypocritical considering you had national bolshevik symbol as avatar and a picture of national bolsheviks marching in your sig for quite a while.
I used to think you'd be for our side too.

[Thine Stalin]

I'm not an anti-semite, I've admitted I don't like the jewish culture, but I don't like alot of things, I don't like hippies for example. I don't let my personal opinions cloud my political judgement. If loving jews is needed, SURE I'll love jews for the a utopian communist system, but of course thats not needed, stalinism is.

[Lefty]

shut the fuck up, nazi. Being of a race or set of beliefs doesnt make a person good or bad. Go away

[Xvall]

Okay, first of all.. I'm not even sure that that WAS a NB sig and logo. Second, How the hell was I supposed to know? I'm not even white... I couldn't join your Nazi group... It was just a picture anyways, only to represent communism. If I have a picture of the Hammer and Sickle, it doesn't necesarrily mean I support Stalin. Maybe I just support the working class!

[Thine Stalin]

National bolshevism isn't as broad as and as vague as a hammer and sickle.

What does their symbol look like, a nazi flag with a hammer and sickle instead of a swastika, even the colorations are correct.

[Xvall]

So then, What are your beliefs?
A mix of Nazism and Communism?
Are you going to persecute and kill everyone equally or something?

[Thine Stalin]

I believe in immigration restrictions, I don't believe the current immigrants should be removed however.

That is about as far as my nationalism goes, the thing about killing everyone equally does not even deserve a reply I believe

[Xvall]

Alright then.. Do you believe in Nazism?
If so, what parts of Nazism did you believe in?

[Thine Stalin]

nationalism is nazism, its the same as patriotism in alot of ways.

[Michael De Panama]

Fuck you. I do not accept a Stalinist as a comrade. I may disagree with other types of commies, but the Stalinist is the most vile. I do not wish to associate my movement with theirs. I'd rather have capitalism than Stalinism. I'd rather die than fight on the side of the Stalinist.

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 1:10 am on June 4, 2002
Communism is manily economic. It doen't guarentee no democracy, in fact, marx calls for the proletariot to set up a democratic society. And TS is a Nazi, I don't care what you say, Panama can show you links.


Yup.

http://thelyceum.org/showthread.php?s=&pos...d=5618#post5618 (http://thelyceum.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=5618#post5618)

Nateddi exposed him. Thine Stalin is in there under the name, Deamon. This is a neo-Nazi message board. Thine Stalin claims to be both a communist and a Nazi.

[James]

malte said; "you support the murder of millions of inoccent people."

Thine Stalin replyied; "If they were innocent then they wouldn't have died, would've they now?"

Then when people told him he was a nazi (well mainly me i think), he simply said "You just have no humor, thats all"



Another quote that followed closely was;

"I think Stalin knew he was killing people, and he knew they needed to die, jewish children don't need to die, whats the point in their deaths? They might grow up to be useful, these people were obvious dissidents who refused to conform. They were of no use to anyone and wouldn't leave Russia anyway, what else was there to do than send them to camps or kill them?"

Here he portrays humans as TOOLS mere objects, and basically says they deserved it all.


I didn't really care to look at this because I know all I'll get from micheal as responses are either insults or long replies of him repeating himself, its just a waste of time.


He doesn't read anyones posts...he just posts his nazi shit.

When i told him he made me sick he said "Heh, just keep your mouth closed"

No respect.




I'm going around the country to various fairs with my boxing gym this summer, hopefully I'll get to meet up with a few of you idealists and we'll see what your peaceful hippie mentality does for you then


hmmm

[Thine Stalin]

I enjoy how you just take everything out of context.

All communists think of their fellow humans as tools or cogs or whatever in the machine of the nation. To not think like this, to think of them as idividuals, is capitalist. The majority needs happiness, not a few dissidents who noone likes anyway,

And obviously I did read micheal's post, and I responded to it. Micheal has flamed me ever since I started posting, even when I was the only stalinist and he was the only one with a problem about it. I didn't feel obligated to give a decent reply, he's matured alot, and he doesn't use personal attacks as often and actually makes intelligent replies now, but it doesn't mean to say I'm going to forgot how he was.

The last thing isn't meant to be taken seriously and if it was, I'm in a ring with a referee and you're in as much danger, as you are on the message board. You'd be able to stop the fight when you like.

My circular reasoning in the first thing you posted about was never meant to be taken seriously.

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from lenin on 1:54 am on June 4, 2002
malte, seriously now, i am a left winger. if i was a right winger, i would say so wouldn't i? my core beleifs are the beliefs put forward in the communist manifesto. i may stray from the leftist norm on certain issues but i am still a hardcore marxist.
i don't mind you attacking my views, but by restricting me to this forum alone, my views aren't being heard are they? you could say, a stalinist demanding free speech, thats irony, but this isn't a country, its a internet discussion forum. what i say will probobly not effect anyones views and you should be confident enough in your views to know (in your mind) that they are the correct views.
if you have nothing but libertarian communists on the whole forum, you just go round in circles. i've seen it so far. the typical GT thread is something like, 'fuck america, look what they do in the third world' and everyone just comes on and agrees with each other like sheep. there is no discussion. you need leftists with differing opinions.
why won't you let me on the other forums? i still can't understand it. this forum is for debating isn't it? even if i was racist (which i personally don't think i am) i wouldn't just come on and say, fuck all jews, blacks, indians and chinese, would i. i would work it into a construtive argument.
come on malte, i've sent you personal messages but you haven't responded. i'll ask you one more time. will you let me on the rest of the forum?



Lenin, you should become a lawyer, pretty good plea. However, you obviesly are a very anti-capitalist. Well that's good but really doesn't makes a leftist. Many Neo-Nazis are anti-capitalist too. But in most leftist issues of todays politics such as immigration or capital punishment you are very right-wing. Even if I would allow you, that would be like a open invitation to other national bolsheviks to join the community. Two national bolsheviks here are already too much, we don't need more of you here. Keep posting in Nazi forums like thelyceum but please spare us with your posts at Che-Lives.

[Kez]

i say let comrade Lenin back in,
he is ONE OF US.

Please let him back in, he is one of the few with ANY knowledge of communism, unlike the many dogmatic bullshitters on the site such as panama who are full of fuck all

[Edelweiss]

dogmatic bullshitters? I think lenin is one one of the most dogamtic people here...

[Nateddi]

Lenin isn't on the lyceum; Thine Stalin is.

[Reuben]

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 6:49 pm on June 4, 2002
i say let comrade Lenin back in,
he is ONE OF US.

Please let him back in, he is one of the few with ANY knowledge of communism, unlike the many dogmatic bullshitters on the site such as panama who are full of fuck all



Lenin is not one of us. He is at best a thrid positionist

[RGacky3]

PLEASE COMRADS, the whole point of this thread was to stop the fighting between comrads. Michael, your not helping, I may not be a stalinist, but I accept TS as my comrad, becouse he is a fellow communist, he is not a Nazi, he is not a rasist. Lenin is not a nazi, he is not a rasist, he is a communist. As far as I see it its the stalinists who want to make peace, but the liberals who don't want it. Now lets stop fighting and take care of the real problem capitalism.

[RGacky3]

Quote: from Malte on 6:51 pm on June 4, 2002
dogmatic bullshitters? I think lenin is one one of the most dogamtic people here...


Malte please help me out here, I am trying to unite communists under a common goal, don't make more fighting. Lenin is a communist, and a comrad, let him back on.

[RGacky3]

Quote: from Reuben on 7:18 pm on June 4, 2002

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 6:49 pm on June 4, 2002
i say let comrade Lenin back in,
he is ONE OF US.

Please let him back in, he is one of the few with ANY knowledge of communism, unlike the many dogmatic bullshitters on the site such as panama who are full of fuck all



Lenin is not one of us. He is at best a thrid positionist


Its people like you that make reform impossible, you refuse to have an open mind.

[man in the red suit]

yeah we really need to stop the hate. this is making me sick. I was banned from the commie club and I forget why I was banned in the first place! we are all comrads here. Lenin is not a right winger in any sense. and even if he was, he is only rightest in about 1% of his ideals. We should all stop pointing fingers at each other like little 3rd graders and act like intelectuals. This has become a stalinist website. We've been picking out anyone considered a threat and bannig them. This doesn't help. If thinestalin is truly a nazi, then ignore his sick nazi comments. I think he's a nazi as well, but if it were my site I wouldn't ban him, Thine stalin is not really even a nazi, but a fascist from what Ive heard. I am definitely pissed off at his "anti-Jewish culture" statement, but I don't hold any grudges.


Nomar, even though I believe we should unite, this doesn't mean we should unite with EVERYONE, we need to make sure we are united with only communists and socialists . In this case I don't think there is anyone here I wouldn't unite with except for thinestalin.

[Thine Stalin]

Most of the communists need to brush up on what nazism and nationalism is.

[Xvall]

Once again..
We can work on Lenin..
But come on.. It's hard for me to deal with Thine when he supports Nazism, which is entirely what I'm against!

[Michael De Panama]

Actually, Gacky, Thine Stalin has admitted that he is both a Nazi and a communist.

As for the rest of the Stalinists, they support controlled social inequality. This is fascism, not communism.

What I fight for and what the Stalinist fights for are two seperate goals, despite the fact that we both want to destroy capitalism.

[peaccenicked]

It seems to me that the 'Stalinists' on this site are insidious. They are playing footsie with both horrid authoritarian ideas and racism both tacit and overt.
Let us have no illusions about them.

[Capitalist Fighter]

i'm in solidarity with you peace!
BTW i'm still a cappie! ;)

[man in the red suit]

goddammit!! thine is not a nazi. You cant be both a nazi and a communist, the two dont go together. Thine says he does not like the jewish CULTURE, not the race. You people only see what you want to. I don't care for the Jewish culture either and I AM jewish. Thine has nothing
against jews in general just the culture. You guys wouldn't consider me a nazi if i said i hated marshmallows. CHILL OUT. let us hear each other out and discuss our ideas with one another.


and don't even try to tell me lenin is a nazi. that is complete bullshit. Lenin is pretty cool for a stalinist and has some pretty good ideas.

[Michael De Panama]

No. Thine ADMITTED that he was a Nazi. You can be a Nazi and a commie at the same time. That's what a Stalinist is!

[Thine Stalin]

I said nationalist, the lyceum post said nazi because those nazis don't differentiate between the two

[man in the red suit]

christ leave thinestalin alone. He is not a nazi, he is simply against the creation of STEREOTYPICAL jews. I spoke to thine stalin and he only dislikes the STEREOTYPE which Jews have been categorized under. He is a nationalist and not a nazi, regardless of what you believe nationalism to be. You must listen to the full side of his argument before casting him aside as a nazi.
thine stalin is a comrad and I believe that his restrictions should be lifted from him. It has become sickening to me as to how some of the members on this site have been treated.

[James]

"I am a nazi and communist."

Oh but hes a nice nazi isn't he, because according to him...

"Nazism doesn't automatically equate hatred, or differences of equality between races."

[Capitalist Fighter]

Thine it was bad enough that you are a Stalinits, but a nazi?!?! Come on dude that is just freak. Also MITRS don't try and defend him because he falls under the "left" column, i know if he was claiming to be far right then i wouldn't support him one iota!

[Moskitto]

From the post you made on the Lyceum it looked like you were confused as to what a nazi was.

[RGacky3]

LOOK TS IS NOT A NAZI OR AN ANTI SEMI, I talked to him, he is nether of those. He is a communist, he has the same goal as any other communist, economic equality and social justice.

[man in the red suit]

thinestalin was stupid for saying he was a nazi but he IS NOT. he is a nationalist. Many nazis are nationalists. Tha is what he meant. He just wanted to piss you guys off because he was frustrated with how you people only hear what you want to hear without looking at both sides of the picture.

[peaccenicked]

I am at war with Stalinism and those who advocate its brutal practices. There can be no peace with those who dirty our name.

[RedSovietCCCP]

Peaccenicked shut the fuck up!!!!!!!!!!! Your at war with the stalinist???? Start your argument and I will fucking pick your argument apart *****!!!!!!!! There can be no peace those who dirty our name???? I'm not a democrat like yourself and others on this site so how am I dirty your name? Fuck your liberal bullshit!!!!!!!!!

[peaccenicked]

You are not a democrat.
that dirties our name.
I am not a liberal. I have no tolerance of you. You and your lot should piss off from this site.
Lenin: "DEMOCRACY IS INDISPENSABLE TO SOCIALISM''

[lenin]

peoples democracy, not bourgeois democracy. and only when the nation is ready for it, after the dictatorship of the prolateriat.

[peaccenicked]

Who decides when the nation is ready for it?
Do you think we are all idiots?
Lenin insists we must win the battle of democracy, that means the people have to support us all down the line.
We dont need a liberal stalinist bureaucracy that lets chaos loose on society and then cracks down on communists and any dissent that that is deemed to threaten a dictators power, who has chosen to decide for the proletariat.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 5:03 pm on June 7, 2002)

[lenin]

who decides when the nation is ready for it? the workers! lenin stressed democratic centralism until the workers could create a fully democratic workers state but the chance was lost when leonid brezhnev came to power. you may not agree with this, but stalin was not a massive fan of bureacracy. he was more a fan of populist dictatroship. after this dictatorship, should have come the workers democracy. but when brezhnev came in, he should of gave more power to the workers because they were ready for it, but instead, he gave more power to the bloated bureacracy he helped to create.

[peaccenicked]

Here is Andy Blunden who actually seems to have studied stalinism.
What is Stalinism?
A very diverse range of politics is subsumed under the heading of ‘Stalinism’.

For instance, between 1933 and 1939 Stalinism moved from the extreme left to the extreme right of the workers’ movement. In 1933 they denounced the reformists as a “wing of fascism” in 1939 they signed a pact with Hitler “in the interests of world peace”.

From 1923-1928, Stalin advocated “socialism at a snail’s pace”, but in 1928 the USSR set out to “catch up and overtake” the West in the shortest possible time.

Before 1934, the Stalinists in the capitalist countries set up “red unions” in opposition to the mass trade unions. After 1934, they not only joined the mainstream unions, but called for a “popular front” with the “national bourgeoisie”.

Stalinism is not so much a political tendency but the politics of a social stratum, together with those who are tied politically to that social stratum. This stratum is the bureaucracy of the workers’ state.

An individual member of the apparatus of a workers’ state may or not express the specific social interests of that apparatus. Trotsky for instance was a senior official of the Soviet state from 1917 to 1927. But, all his life he was a political leader of the working class and an implacable opponent of the bureaucracy. Thus, it is possible to be both a member of the workers’ bureaucracy and a leader of the working class and political opponent of the bureaucracy.

Nevertheless, it can be seen that the apparatus has social interests that are distinct from those of the social class it serves. Consequently, to live in such a bureaucracy implies social pressures which act upon every individual. Stalinism arose within the Soviet state when sections of the bureaucracy began to express their own interests, against those of the working class which had created the state in order to serve its interests.

The history of the Russian Revolution cannot leave any doubt but that the working class and no other had created the Soviet state. But does that fact alone guarantee that the Soviet state would serve the working class and it alone?

All social classes endeavour to influence the state apparatus in the direction of their own interests, and find within the state apparatus individuals, groups and factions which express their social interests. The bourgeoisie has always been able to find those within the apparatus of the workers’ state who will serve its interests.

Thus, in order to understand the politics of the workers’ state bureaucracy two issues have to be considered: what is the social nature of the state itself (its origins, its relation to other classes and to production)? and what is the social nature and composition and political profile of the officials holding office within the state, and the social pressures acting upon them?

During the latter part of his life Trotsky fought many political battles against those who characterised the Soviet Union as a capitalist state.. [63] In State and Revolution, written in September-October 1917, Lenin clearly and unambiguously explained that the objective of the working class in taking state power was to build an instrument of violence for the repression of the capitalist class. The Red Army was the essence of that state. Political relations within the working class, and the relations between its different strata and the bureaucracy are another question.

The bureaucracy of any state has its own independent aspirations. Effectively restricting these aspirations is a problem which depends upon the strength of the ruling class and the balance of forces between it and other classes.

The state bureaucracy does not have unqualified freedom of action. Its power derives from holding office within a state, a particular state. The bureaucracy is obliged to make sure not to bring about the actual overthrow of the state, since in this instance they would lose the very basis of their own social power.

It is this contradiction between social interests affecting the bureaucracy which is responsible for the zig-zagging of the Soviet bureaucracy. It is often referred to as the ‘dual nature’ of the workers’ state. For instance, Stalin’s policy up to 1928 threatened the destruction of the workers’ state through a counter-revolution based on the petit-bourgeoisie and rich peasants. Such a counter-revolution would have meant Stalin’s death just as much as it would have destroyed the foundation of workers’ power. At a certain point, Stalin had to make an about-face.

These questions concerning the problems of development of an isolated workers state were problems that had never previously confronted the socialist movement. The Russian Revolution was the first to give birth to a proletarian state that survived to live within the imperialist world. Thus it gave the world not only the original ‘model’ for socialist revolution, but a new social strata, the workers’ state bureaucracy and the politics of that stratum, Stalinism.

Since the workers’ movement had never been practically confronted with this problem prior to 1923, the political and theoretical foundations of the struggle against Stalinism were laid by the movement which fought against Stalinism, namely, Trotskyism.

It would be quite wrong to attempt to understand Stalinism simply in terms of a problem within the working class or within the socialist movement. The political problems which confronted the Soviet working class in the 1920s and 1930s were not of their own making. They arose as a result of the defeat of the European revolution and the isolation of the Soviet workers’ in a backward, peasant-dominated country.

Therefore, this analysis could be summed up by saying that Stalinism is the expression of the pressure of imperialism within the workers’ state. The Stalinist bureaucracy is the representative of imperialism within the workers’ state. This should not be understood in the ‘conspiratorial’ sense, but in the social sense, of course.

[man in the red suit]

dam lenin, i don't think you can argue with that.

I see why people won't unite with each other on this site. I am stupid for not of have predicting this. Unity is only a dream. I was wrong to think otherwise as it seems.

[RGacky3]

Why can't you people find something to agree on, such as the proletariat cause. Put aside your differences.

[Thine Stalin]

America is bad? Don't you agree?

[peaccenicked]

US imperialism is outrageous but what is really outrageous iwith your communication as that you think ressurecting Stalin is going to do any good for the anti imperialist cause whatsoever.

[Michael De Panama]

Yes. But not as bad as Stalin.

[peaccenicked]

I dont really get into worse of evil debates. Let us do what is necessary to defeat both Imperialism and Stalinism. Shakespeare sas comparisons are odious.
In it is like giving something, a living monsterous overgrowth some legitimacy.

[man in the red suit]

a new question, which is worse? imperialism or stalinism???????????????????

[peaccenicked]

Whether you are being tortured in Chile or Poland.
which one????????????????????????

[Nateddi]

Neither are good, but stalinism is definately better.

Stalinism = you disagree, you are fucked. You agree, you get some socialitic benefits.

Imperialism = you are fucked either way, you are a cog in a global machine which doesnt give a damn about your interest.

[man in the red suit]

GOOD i agree 99%

[peaccenicked]

The welfare state in the west came about because of the Russian revolution. It is not quite that simple.

[man in the red suit]

????? what's that got to do with.....nevermind. I'll probly only make myself look like a fool again.