From Russia with Hate

[freakazoid]

http://current.com/items/84906361_from_russia_with_hate

Are the neo-nazis getting pretty large over there? What are we doing in response to this?
And people make fun of me for seeing the need to start a militia, :glare:

[spartan]

Yeah they are getting their voices heard over there because of rising levels of immigration (Mostly central Asians and Muslims) amongst other things.

Then of course there are also the National Bolsheviks (Nazis using Communist symbolism) who were allowed to march side by side with the Russian Communist party (Yes thats the former ruling party of the USSR) in anti-Putin demonstrations.

[Xiao Banfa]

What are we doing in response to this?

We? Libertarians don't do things like that. There is no we here.

It's leftists who fight these battles.Always have, always will.
You should start a business and make some money. Use your invisible hand to change the world.

[freakazoid]

We? Libertarians don't do things like that. There is no we here.

It's leftists who fight these battles.Always have, always will.
You should start a business and make some money. Use your invisible hand to change the world.

What are you talking about?

[Bud Struggle]

What are we doing in response to this?


The problem is that there are 57 varieties of Communism in the world and only 54 Communist left. :D

(And they are all posting on RevLeft! :lol:)

[Xiao Banfa]

What are you talking about?


Well possibly the fact that, anarchists and marxists start groups to take on the fascists- not libertarians. Y'know capitalists-which is what you are.
To you the highest form of organisation (and the highest form of human expression) is private enterprise.

[Bud Struggle]

the highest form of organisation (and the highest form of human expression) is private enterprise.

Zactly!!!

Now we ae getting somewhere!!!:lol:

[Xiao Banfa]

That's where your problems come from. You should recognise that democracy is the highest expression of human organisation (at least a practically realisable one). Democracy expressed in a popular socialist government.

[Joby]

That's where your problems come from. You should recognise that democracy is the highest expression of human organisation (at least a practically realisable one). Democracy expressed in a popular socialist government.

And how much 'democracy' do you propose we have?

Do you subscribe to that Leftist philosophy which believes democracy is wonderful, as long as only the "Peoples Party" gets to run?

BTW, I checked out that Alliance link in your sig, and it looks pretty cool.

How's the movement in NZ? There seem to be a lot of posters in here from those isles.

[RHIZOMES]

BTW, I checked out that Alliance link in your sig, and it looks pretty cool.

You like it because it's a liberal party that communists keep getting tricked into joining.

[RHIZOMES]

How's the movement in NZ? There seem to be a lot of posters in here from those isles.

Everything left-wing (Including social democrats and liberals) is sad, small and pathetic other than the Greens. And I don't like the Greens. But they are the only major liberal/social-democratic party that actually bears any resemblance to the ideology.

The major "left" party isn't very left, the party that was made in response to this (Alliance) has combusted in the same manner Respect did in the UK. The two major communist parties in NZ are small and unregistered. Workers Party (Mine) which is a non-sectarian party largely populated by Maoists but also a lot of Trotskyists (Or Mao influenced and post-Trotsky as they like to call it). The other is Socialist Worker, which is Trotskyist, which is going more rightward everyday. They're slowly turning into a social democrat party.

[Xiao Banfa]

You like it because it's a liberal party that communists keep getting tricked into joining.

You obviously have little idea of the socialist direction of the Alliance party.
They're pretty militant when it comes to union struggles.

We agree with the WP on union issues (fundamentally).

Jim Anderton is long gone; in case you don't know basic recent history when it comes to NZ.


Everything left-wing (Including social democrats and liberals) is sad, small and pathetic other than the Greens.

The Greens (since the death/murder of Rod Donald) are highly unreliable on class issues.

[Xiao Banfa]

You like it because it's a liberal party that communists keep getting tricked into joining.

You obviously have little idea of the socialist direction of the Alliance party.
They're pretty militant when it comes to union struggles.

We agree with the WP on union issues (fundamentally).

Jim Anderton is long gone; in case you don't know basic recent history when it comes to NZ.


Everything left-wing (Including social democrats and liberals) is sad, small and pathetic other than the Greens.

The Greens (since the death/murder of Rod Donald) are highly unreliable on class issues.

I vote Labour (now) but I await the building of of a broad left party.

[luxemburg89]

The problem is that there are 57 varieties of Communism in the world and only 54 Communist left. :D

(And they are all posting on RevLeft! :lol:)

Lol, it's even funnier because while you may think we're sad wasting our lives on this website; don't you think it even more sad that you get your kicks by trying to take the piss out of us?

I thought I asked you to go and die in a corner anyway. Disobedient waste of DNA, aren't you?

[Bud Struggle]

Lol, it's even funnier because while you may think we're sad wasting our lives on this website; don't you think it even more sad that you get your kicks by trying to take the piss out of us?

A valid rebuke. I do try to keep and even hand but sadly I have a competitive spirit (a Capitalista thing, I guess.) It was an unfair remark on my part. Sorry.


I thought I asked you to go and die in a corner anyway. Disobedient waste of DNA, aren't you?

Woah! you have that whole domimatrix thing going! I really like you, luxie. FYI the REAL Rosa was pretty bossy too, I just read an interesting bio about her by Elzbieta Ettinger.

[freakazoid]

Well possibly the fact that, anarchists and marxists start groups to take on the fascists- not libertarians. Y'know capitalists-which is what you are.
To you the highest form of organisation (and the highest form of human expression) is private enterprise.

Libertarian in the American sense? If so, I am not one. I am an anarchist, Libertarians still believe in the necessity of a government, even if it is a really limited one, I do not. I don't know why you think I do, or where you get the idea that I support Capitalism. Is it because I am restricted to the OI? In case you forgot, SO ARE YOU. If what you say is true about Libertarians, the part about them not forming anti-fascist groups, then perhaps you should read some of my threads, specifically my militia one. That one alone would prove that I am not one.

[Sky]

It is not very constructive to exaggerate the extent of racism among certain strata of the population in Russia. The fact is that there exist racist and fascist groups in every western country. That the western media is so keen to highlight racist incidents in Russia needs to be seen in the context of a plan by reactionary imperialist forces to reduce Russia to semi-colonial dependence. In Russia just about every one of the 100 or so national minorities have always lived peacefully with the native population.

[Bud Struggle]

It is not very constructive to exaggerate the extent of racism among certain strata of the population in Russia. The fact is that there exist racist and fascist groups in every western country. That the western media is so keen to highlight racist incidents in Russia needs to be seen in the context of a plan by reactionary imperialist forces to reduce Russia to semi-colonial dependence. In Russia just about every one of the 100 or so national minorities have always lived peacefully with the native population.

So, you are saying that the Soviet Union was a reactionary, Imperalist, racist and colonialist power, And that same racism is perpetuated by Russia.

I see your point.

[Xiao Banfa]

It is not very constructive to exaggerate the extent of racism among certain strata of the population in Russia. The fact is that there exist racist and fascist groups in every western country. That the western media is so keen to highlight racist incidents in Russia needs to be seen in the context of a plan by reactionary imperialist forces to reduce Russia to semi-colonial dependence. In Russia just about every one of the 100 or so national minorities have always lived peacefully with the native population


What a load of rubbish. Russia has the worst Nazi problem in the world.

And TomK, The USSR was miles ahead. Miles ahead. Fucking paradise compared to the hellhole the former SU has been for the last 17 years.

Direct consequence of the loss of public ownership.

Putins swinging back a wee bit, and for that reason he is popular.

BTW, did you know the KPRF (Russian Federation Communist Party) got the most votes in 96' but were defrauded of it by the free-market dictator Yeltsin.

[Bud Struggle]

What a load of rubbish. Russia has the worst Nazi problem in the world.

And TomK, The USSR was miles ahead. Miles ahead. Fucking paradise compared to the hellhole the former SU has been for the last 17 years.

Direct consequence of the loss of public ownership.

Putins swinging back a wee bit, and for that reason he is popular.

BTW, did you know the KPRF (Russian Federation Communist Party) got the most votes in 96' but were defrauded of it by the free-market dictator Yeltsin.

He's my take on the Soviet Union. In the years BC (before children) my wife and I traveled a good deal. Everywhere. We stayed in pensions or with local people who put us up for a couple of dollars (we were poor then.)

Anyway we've been to the Soviet Union a number of times--and the two main things we came away with were the problem of getting food and fear. You couldn't just GO to a supermarket and get something to eat--the supermarkets were big--as big as Capitalist supermarkets--with nothing in the middle. The walls were lined with empty store cases. It was real work to buy enough food to eat.

I remember going out with my host to buy coffee. I was paying so we found some on the Black Market, because none could be found in the stores and we got it home, ground it--and it was bad, for some reason. I was pissed, but my host said that that was life in the Soviet Union.

The other thing FEAR. Everybody was afraid of the KGB. It was in their life, in their conciousness, in everything they said and did, with everybody they met. There was NO criticism of the government--even among old friends--you just NEVER KNEW who would report you. You never knew what thay had on your sister, your brother your mom, your dad. It was a constant part of daily life. You could cut the fear with a knife.

We were there again right after the Soviet Union fell and, there was for the first time a real sense of freedom. The people could have cared less about the "workers state" falling. No one was protesting in the streets to bring back Communism. Everyone was cautious and for the first time they said they could breathe easier about being "reported."

So, we had kids and have been to Disney World a lot lately. So I can't honestly say what life is like under Putin. Democracy didn't "take" that's for sure. Maybe the secret police are back, I kind of think so--just not as bad.

And on the other hand there is food in the stores.

[Xiao Banfa]

No one was protesting in the streets to bring back Communism.


Oh really? What about the uprising against Yeltsin suspending the assembly in ordre to implement sweeping privatisations?

Why did the KPRF get the majority of the votes in the 1996 elections?

Why does a large majority of russians say their lives were better in the soviet period?

Why was there undeniably more security in terms of the basic essentials of life during the soviet period? Any capitalist fuckwit would tell you that!

Sure the USSR had an economic crisis because the yanks had unfortunately outplayed them (by supporting feudal fundamentalists) in afghanistan thus weakening the economy.

But a full dismantling of every gain of the revolution which working people had given their blood for?

Shame on you.:glare:

[Phalanx]

Oh really? What about the uprising against Yeltsin suspending the assembly in ordre to implement sweeping privatisations?

You mean the military coup that the people actually protested against?

If Russia would've followed Poland's path and get through a few very painful years right away, the country would be alot better off. Instead they tried to blend their state-capitalism with Western capitalism.

[Xiao Banfa]

Oh sorry I forgot. The shining example of Poland.

Whenever I hear market extremists talk about 'painful years'. It's obvious that this applies not to the people making a shitpacket out of the liberal asset banquet but to the people who least equipped to withstand the pain.

Sorry, I might take you seriously if you suggested loosening up consumer markets somewhat. But no.

There's no mistaking your class loyalty.