how many did stalin REALLY kill? - not as many as you think!

[lenin]

i've heard some capitalist estimates that stalin killed 175,000,000 people. does it not seem strange that all these bodies have not been found? lets look at the soviet population figures. USSR held about 280million people. lets say these 'purges' went on from 1930-1941 when the war started. that is an average of just under 16,000,000 people a year dead! isn't it odd then, that the USSR did not suffer a massive drop in population. how could we reproduce those numbers? after all, we weren't catholic, women could have free abortions. puzzling indeed.
the fact is, oly a small number of bodies have been discovered and there is no evidence that stalin killed anywhere near 175,000,000! capitalists and trotskyists alike like to add the number of dead from famine and war to the 'purge number'. 27,000,000 dead from WWII and about 11,000,000 from famine. the war was abviously not stalins fault and as for the famine, most died during the siege of leningrad which was down to the nazis and if stalin hadn't industrialised USSR, many more would of died from famine.
so lets look at the end facts. most analasysts have put stalins 'purges' at between 30-40million. we can immideatly dismiss 38million of those as not being his fault so (even if we take to bigger estimate) we are now left with 2 million. and even this is debatable.
so at the end of the day there is no proof that stalin killed all those people and the ones that he did kill probobly didn't even surpass 1 million. considering he ruled for 30 years, AFTER a revolution where his idology says he must elliminate class enemies, 1 million isn't that much.

(Edited by lenin at 8:59 pm on May 30, 2002)

[Edelweiss]

You are talking like someone who is denying the holocaust. I'm finding more and more common grounds between you Stalinists and the Nazis...

[Nateddi]

Stalin killed about 10-30 million in my opinion.

That is still 10-30 million too many.

[Moskitto]

The population of the USSR was 165 million in 1937. A drop that big would have prevented the USSR from repelling the German invasion. Even figure of 50 million for male targetted killings around that time would have done the same. My guess is 20 million.

[Michael De Panama]

so at the end of the day there is no proof that stalin killed all those people and the ones that he did kill probobly didn't even surpass 1 million. considering he ruled for 30 years, AFTER a revolution where his idology says he must elliminate class enemies, 1 million isn't that much.

You're justifying a mass murder here. It is known that at least five million people were killed by Stalin. Still, if you don't want to look at that, one million is still a whole lot of people. You sick fuck.

[Capitalist Fighter]

How can you support somebody who murdered according to your convoluted figures 3 million people. Surely they weren't all guilty. I also don't think anybody should be killed or executed however that is another story. You guys are so sad loving Stalin, a world wide known dictator. Seriously what inspires you to admire and follow this bestial monster?

[Hayduke]

Lenin,

I hold Stalin responsible for the purges, the people that starved and people that worked themself to death.

Stalin's 5 year plan was a succes, productions doubled and City rose up from nowere.

There's only one thing Stalin is missing to be a good communist leader...and that's caring for his people.

Stalin makes us communist look bad. Ever wonderd why people are so afraid for communism ? Thats right your personal dead buddy Stalin.

[lenin]

"It is known that at least five million people were killed by Stalin."

again de panama, you are talking out of your homosexual ass! who 'knows' that stalin killed 5 million? where are your facts? i'd be intrigued to know.

d day, how can you blame stalin for the famines? do you know what sort of a country he inherited? it was in a terrible state! stalin is responsible for the purges, but not the famine (and the gulags were an extension of the purges).
capitalist fighter, to be honest, i can understand you not liking stalin as you are a capitalist but i can't understand why he is hated amongst 'communists'. why do i like him? he tranformed the USSR from backward country to super power. it is a well known fact that when stalin died, the comunist economy died with him. krushchev took away the heavy industry and swapped it for light industry and agriculture. if he would of kept the economy, and let private enteprises take care of consumer items (or simply just buy them from abroad), USSR would of succeeded. as it was, the soviet economy got too complicated and led to the over bureacrasation by brezhnev.

[Capitalist Fighter]

lenin, when you talk about those achievements, you must ask yourself the question, "but at what cost?"...

[Hayduke]

Quote: from lenin on 6:53 pm on May 31, 2002

d day, how can you blame stalin for the famines? do you know what sort of a country he inherited? it was in a terrible state! stalin is responsible for the purges, but not the famine (and the gulags were an extension of the purges).


And Stalin didnt trade the food the Sovjet Union, so there was nothing left to feed the workers ?

[lenin]

do you even know what your talking about? collectivisation BENEIFTED the workers more than anyone. the food was taken from the peasents to feed the workers! you would think stalin inherited a civilised insutrial country if you spoke to you! he inherited a shit hole! and put an economy in place so that, by the 60's and 70's there was no reason to be hungry in the USSR.

[Josip Broz Tito]

First of all, calling a 1 million people killed by Stalin, "not that much" is sick. Sorry to say that. And if you continue with your calculations, you might find out one day that Stalin didn't kill anybody. Ironic. My guess is up to 20 millions, but I don't find it very important. Stalin KILLED HIS OWN PEOPLE to maintain on power. That is important. No matter if it is one or 175 millions of people. He is a murderer and criminal.
Regarding the question why we communists don't like Stalin, well, because he wasn't a communist but imperialist. Calling yourself a communist and being one are two different things. Stalin holds one record however. He is the biggest imperialist among those who liked to be called communist. From his dictatorship, not only that people of USSR suffered. Also people of Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Poland and many other countries in Europe, Asia and Africa suffered. He got the Lenin's idea of international communism completely wrong. He thought that he is the one that will bring communism to the world. For him, international communism meant USSR control. Just remember Inform bureau. Well, he was wrong.
The reason I don't like him (or the reason why I hate him) is: because of him, most people have fear of communism. He gave the reason to enemies of communist to treat communism as dictatorship. Hopefully, people will notice the difference between communism and stalinism.

[Ernest Everhard]

Quote: from lenin on 3:26 pm on May 31, 2002
do you even know what your talking about? collectivisation BENEIFTED the workers more than anyone. the food was taken from the peasents to feed the workers! you would think stalin inherited a civilised insutrial country if you spoke to you! he inherited a shit hole! and put an economy in place so that, by the 60's and 70's there was no reason to be hungry in the USSR.



That's why the USSR had to begin exporting the majority of its grain for consumption from the US in the 70's.

[lenin]

ernest, i said there was no REASON people in USSR should be hungry, i didn't say there was no hunger. the fact is, brezhnev the moron over bureacrasised the USSR for his own personal gain. he should of let some private enteprises take care of the food industry but he wanted the profits for his massive bureacracy. there was plenty of food in USSR, it was just put in the wrong places because of incompitence.

[Hayduke]

and stalin didnt have anything to say bout this ?

[pastradamus]

How [/b]Strange[b] a guy named "lenin" is talking about stalins murder's as if they were nothing.

[lenin]

whats strange about that? or you another one who denies histroy and fact and thinks lenin wouldn't have killed anyone if he had lived. wake up!!!!

ps youre one of them liberal aren't you? answer my questions in 'ideas for communism'.

[Xvall]

You are aware,
That lenin did not like Stalin aren't you? Near the end of his life, he urged people to vote for Trotsky, which stalin killed..

[lenin]

lenin did like stalin. he just didn't want him to be a dictator. he didn't like trotsky but felt, if there was going to be a dictator, he might be better. but he didn't want anyone to take too much power. he did trust stalin more than trotsky though. he just thought stalin was so ruthless, he might go too far.

[Xvall]

Yep, and Stalin DID go to far. The only thing I thought he did good was help defeat hitler, which would have been a heck of a lot easier if he wasn't shooting his own generals!

[Zippy]

Quote: from lenin on 3:26 pm on May 31, 2002
... by the 60's and 70's there was no reason to be hungry in the USSR.
Thats because there was 20 million less people to feed.

Zippy.

[deadpool 52]

Quote: from Zippy on 10:10 pm on June 1, 2002

Quote: from lenin on 3:26 pm on May 31, 2002
... by the 60's and 70's there was no reason to be hungry in the USSR.
Thats because there was 20 million less people to feed.
Zippy.

HAHAHAHA
NIICE!

[uth1984]

Q."HOW MANY DID STALIN KILL?"
A. We honestly dont know. There are no exact figures on purges deaths, all we have are estimates. They range from 5-20 million, sometimes more, for the purges alone. Also, it is debatable how much control Stalin had. What we do know is that the purges were advocated by Stalin, who condemed many to death, signed thousandof excetution order. Also, he set quotas for execution n each region.
On top of this, we know that around 10million died because of collectivisation's famine.

[Mazdak]

Yes, Stalin killed milions of people- if you count all those people who died on natural causes, died, in WW2, and died from 1914-1922.

[peaccenicked]

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/Experimen...it/repress.html (http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/Experimental/soviet.exhibit/repress.html)