Stalinist list [Archive]

PaulDavidHewson

31st May 2002, 17:01

Malte, can't you just bann those hardheaded Stalinists?

some of them, I mean Yuri is quite alright, he is misguided and all, but he does go into a debate and he comes with documents to try and prove his misguided point and such.

But most of them are just plain sick and have some sort of DNA deformation of some kind.
Of course we should try to help them out and all and try to look after them, but I feel it's too late for some of them.

Thine Stalin

31st May 2002, 21:05

I realise, I just got silly there.

I didn't really care to argue, so what better than some catch 22 bull shit discussion, you can't argue with me when its so flat and straight forward, morality isn't an issue if they're guilty, is it now?

James

31st May 2002, 21:11

FUCK OFF NAZI PIG

Thine Stalin

31st May 2002, 21:15

You just have no humor, thats all

lenin

31st May 2002, 21:19

some of you people have a really fucked up view on the stalinist purges!
do you think he just went round killing people for fun? to satisfy his lust for death? there has just been a revolution for fuck sake! the country was in turmol! there were traitors everywhere!
stalin didn't just kill political enemies, he killed thieves and criminals, deservedley! and the political enemies he killed, where not just opponents, they were traitors! plotter against our socialist motherland!
i don't know for sure who was guilty or not. but i'd be willing to bet 99% of the vicims deserved to die. the 1% were probobly people like the families of victims who stalin killed out of paranoia later in his life.

Xvall

31st May 2002, 21:39

Thine Stalin... What the hell?
If they died, they must have deserved it? Is that how it is with you. Anyone who dies deserves it? I guess those 1,000,000 jewish children had it coming? Idiot...

Sasafrás

31st May 2002, 21:41

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 3:39 pm on May 31, 2002
Thine Stalin... What the hell?
If they died, they must have deserved it? Is that how it is with you. Anyone who dies deserves it? I guess those 1,000,000 jewish children had it coming? Idiot...Right on, Drake! Thine Stalin's comment was rather idiotic, but you must remember what he represents. ;)

STALINSOLDIERS

31st May 2002, 23:02

la rainbux why dont you fuck off and go with your capitalist boy freind.....fucking shit..

Dynatos

1st June 2002, 01:27

I'm not sure wether i'm considered a Stlinist or not. I don't like the way Stalin executed those milions of people (guilty or not guilty they didn't deserve to die) but i belive Stalin had no choise. He had to do it to insure a Communist rule in russia and to industrialise Russia befor the nazis attacked and to keep the Americans from winning the cold war. Stalin saved the wourld from fascism but in doing so he killed Millions and tarnished the name of communism. If i where in Stalins position i probably would have done the same.

Stalin send all the capitalist, anti-soviets, rebles, thives, and criminals to work camps and 'worked them to death' (most of them) too industrialise the country. heres my question. If Stalin came to power after the industrialisation would he have established the same laws as he did during the industrialisation period?

Thine Stalin

1st June 2002, 04:03

In the few years after the war it was the same thing, and he was allies with the nazis for 2 years into the war.

I think Stalin knew he was killing people, and he knew they needed to die, jewish children don't need to die, whats the point in their deaths? They might grow up to be useful, these people were obvious dissidents who refused to conform. They were of no use to anyone and wouldn't leave Russia anyway, what else was there to do than send them to camps or kill them?

PaulDavidHewson

1st June 2002, 04:24

well, if they weren't going to be a threat and didn't bother anyone why would you not allow them to live their lives they way they want to?

Why keep them confined to ghetto's and ship them to the Gulag?
Why take away the little things they have?
Why would you like to continue to make their lives misarable like the Tsjar did before Stalin and others did before the Tsar?
Why weren't they allowed to work/live outside the ghetto and Stetl?
What the fuck did they do that deserved them this fate?
They didn't conform?? what is that about? I wouldn't conform either if the country I loved got overthrown by a bloody coup d'etat.
Am I a enemy of the people, just because I don't want to be a part of Collectivisation?
am I an enemy of the people because I say bad things about my goverment? Do I deserve to die or be tortured or maimed for the remainder of my live because I just happen not to like the goverment?
Consequently, does my family/friends also deserve this fate because they know me and I talked to them?
Maybe they are potential threats, right?

You know, I should have Gorbatsjov as my avatar. He should be a god in Russia.

And now I'm at it why did Stalin want to force his Stalinist ways upon other countries in Europe and Asia?
Why is it that all western european countries are now the richest countries on earth and all east european countries are still suffering from their old stalinist ways?
Yes, those western european countries were pretty rich to start with, but how come there is such a big difference in wealth between eastern germany and western germany and how come that Poland is so poor now, when they used to be one of the wealthiest countries?
Did you know that those east eurpoean countries only served as a military buffer for CCCP?

I'm looking forward to your reply.

lenin

1st June 2002, 09:05

hewson, i've already give reason why east and west germany were so different. ever heard of trade embargos? also, read my post on the soviet economy, it basically gives the reasons for the poor living standard in places like poland because the system was over bureacrasised. if soviet planners would of concentrated on heavy industry and left consumer industries to the private sectoe, they wouldn't be in this mess. you have brezhnnev to thank for that, not stalin.
gorbachev, a god in russia???? thats why he got less than 1% of the vote in '96 elections. you've got no idea what russia thinks! while i personally don't blame gorbachev for the USSRs break up (i blame brezhnev mainly), most people do. he should of tried peristroika and not glasnost, like in china. CCCP may still exist if he had. but thats another story.

PaulDavidHewson

1st June 2002, 14:49

trade embargo? listen lenin, I don't think it was even remotely possible for east-germany to deal with the west and why should they? Don't they have the cccp and china and alot of other countries to trade with.

No friend, the embargo argument is bullshit.

Do you know why the iron curtain was put up btw?
To keep everyone of importance inside, because they all wanted to flee to the west.

Fabi

1st June 2002, 14:56

i dont care about anyone's capitalist boyfriend... let them be capitalists... it doesnt mean they have to be total assholes.... if i had only 'leftist' friends, then i probably wouldnt have too many friends in the first place....

gosh-frikkin-darnit... this is stupid... ;)

and also in east germany did they limit the people's freedom... and it is something i do not support...

... sigh... under these circumstances i really have to reconsider any sympathies i might have for communism if you really should be communists............ this is getting quite scary...

lenin

1st June 2002, 15:03

hewson, read the fucking post on the soviet economy !!!! i give my reason for the poor standard of living in USSR there.
Fabi, are you from former DDR?

Ernest Everhard

1st June 2002, 17:25

as i explained in that post, the reason for poverty in the soviet economy was that there was a soviet economy. The reason for poverty was not the mistaken misallocation of resources, but that there were people who decided where nearly everyone's resources would go. Unfortunately today russia is in a similar situation, its just that the politburo became the oligarchs.

lenin

1st June 2002, 17:53

ernest, that is your opinion. i have my own opinions for the soviet economys demise.

Fabi

1st June 2002, 18:18

no i am not from the former DDR, but i know a lot of people who are...
and i think the majority didnt like it too much, i think.
especially the younger ones felt oppressed even in simple things like choice of literature or music and stuff like that....

i will ask some of them...

James

2nd June 2002, 18:56

I can't believe you nazis think that they all deserved it...YOU REALLY MAKE ME PHYSICALLY SICK.

Please stop posting on here.

James

Ernest Everhard

2nd June 2002, 19:32

no lenin that's not my opinion, that was the CIA's prediction in 1961. When Kruschev threatened that the USSR would "bury" the west with its superior production capabilities the west was scared. The soviet economy had indeed experienced tremendous growth over the course of a decade and such a threat from a competing hegemonical system couldn't be taken lightly. THe CIA hired Robert Solow a premier economist to study SOviet economic growth and see if the Soviets were indeed going to bury the west. What solow discovered was, what I explained in the other post, disproportionate levels of capital investment with little to no increases in productivity. THe soviet economy, he determined, would continue to grow for strongly for another decade, but then would asymptote as the levels of savings reach dangerously high levels. Its not my opinion, its the fact.

lenin

2nd June 2002, 22:55

look, i know WHY the soviet economy collapsed, i just gave my views on what would of saved. that was my opinion. anyway, i can't be fucked to argue about it know. it happened 40 years ago. i'm more interested in how to make USSR a supepower again today (although i'm aware that at the moment this is impossible).

Thine Stalin

3rd June 2002, 20:13

Quote: from James on 6:56 pm on June 2, 2002
I can't believe you nazis think that they all deserved it...YOU REALLY MAKE ME PHYSICALLY SICK.

Please stop posting on here.

James

Heh, just keep your mouth closed

Capitalist

4th June 2002, 18:07

Don't worry, Thine Stalin

Che Guevara and Castro love you.

You are a true Communist. Like yourself, Che Guevara greatly admired Stalin.

You are a True Communist.

Thine Stalin

4th June 2002, 18:09

Well... Naturally

Michael De Panama

4th June 2002, 18:14

Quote: from Capitalist on 6:07 pm on June 4, 2002
Don't worry, Thine Stalin

Che Guevara and Castro love you.

You are a true Communist. Like yourself, Che Guevara greatly admired Stalin.

You are a True Communist.

You are a fucking imbecile. Che hated Stalin, as well as the whole Soviet system. Don't say anything if all that you speak is ignorant babbles.

This is why I hate Stalinists. The capitalists just love to compare us to them.

Mac OS Revolutionary

4th June 2002, 18:54

They are a misguided bunch. I have one question. Why Stalin? What endearing features did Stalin have over any other soviet leader?

Just because you are Authoritarian doesn't mean you must use Stalin as a role model. I prefer a one party system but don't use Stalin as my idol.

Why Stalin?

lenin

5th June 2002, 01:38

because of the success he had as soviet leader. the fact that he ws the only one to sort out problems that no-one else could. chechnya, the economy etc. he also won WWII (not by himself obvioulsy). he was such a strong leader and very loyal to the working class. he transformed USSR completely. i also like the way he was born into a a peasnets family in gori, georgia and rose to second most powerful man on earth! and also, the fact that many of his political beleifs and policies are exactly the same as mine. i could go on but those are som of the main reason i like stalin.

Maaja

5th June 2002, 06:20

Quote: from lenin on 3:38 am on June 5, 2002
because of the success he had as soviet leader. the fact that he ws the only one to sort out problems that no-one else could. chechnya, the economy etc.

Now I am angry. What problem Chechnya has ever been to you?

Mac OS Revolutionary

5th June 2002, 06:42

Quote: from lenin on 1:38 am on June 5, 2002
because of the success he had as soviet leader. the fact that he ws the only one to sort out problems that no-one else could. chechnya, the economy etc. he also won WWII (not by himself obvioulsy). he was such a strong leader and very loyal to the working class. he transformed USSR completely. i also like the way he was born into a a peasnets family in gori, georgia and rose to second most powerful man on earth! and also, the fact that many of his political beleifs and policies are exactly the same as mine. i could go on but those are som of the main reason i like stalin.

Quite frankly Stalin was a terrible leader. Indirectly he may have caused the fall of the Soviet Union and the possibility of world communism any time soon.

Think about it. He gave communism a terrible name because of his purges, eventual insanity etc. Because of his constant purges the Soviet army was left without strong leadership and allowed the Germans to simply steam roll over inexperieced Soviet commanders. Because the German were allowed to destroy so much of the Soviet infustructure they had a hard time rebuilding their economy which lead to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

lenin

5th June 2002, 08:38

"What problem Chechnya has ever been to you?"

errr...the fact that one of the fuckers could end up killing me when i join the army???

the fact that there calls for independance have resulted in bombs going off all over russia???

the fact that we are at war with them????

the fact that many russian comrades have died fighting them???

Capitalist Fighter

5th June 2002, 08:59

I wholeheartedly support Russia in its war against Chechenya.

lenin

5th June 2002, 09:01

marc OS, learn about stalin from someone other than a western history teacher.
if he fucked the economy and military so bad, how come USSR was number 2 economy in the world in 1953 and one of only two world super powers in military status in 1953, when previously, USSR was probbly not even in top 10 in either of these catagories?

Guest

5th June 2002, 11:34

Chechnya is infested with Al Quida. The muslim extremists in that region pose the same threat to Russia as they do to the United States. Of course, there is more to the war in Chechnya than that. If Chechnya were allowed to leave then others would follow. So many independent states would put Prussia to shame. The oil in that region is also vital to the survival of Russia. Personally, I think the United States owes Russia an apology for berating them for many years over there policy on Chechnya.

Guest

5th June 2002, 11:41

Communism gives itself a bad name. Everytime it is experienced massive numbers of people die. Stalin did not invent the methods necessary for communism to be put into place and protected. The consequences of communist rule are not exclusive to the Soviet Union, merely a product of Marx's evil philosophy.

Maaja

5th June 2002, 13:10

Unfortunately I can't agree with most of the things said about Chechnya because of my personal experiences. And I also would like to see Russian Federation falling apart, but that's my personal opinion and nobody has to agree with me.

Good luck to everybody who's hobbled by prejudices!

(By the way, my signature is from the first Chechen president Dudaev and I totally do agree with him)

lenin

5th June 2002, 13:25

what?? we already lost the USSR now you want us to lose russia aswell?? why? chechyna is a part of russia just as californai is a part of USA! we have already been embaressed enough in chechnya, are you saying we should pull out? what chance of regaining superpower status do we have if we pull out? we will be a lauging stock (not that we aren't already!).

Maaja

5th June 2002, 13:26

Quote: from lenin on 10:38 am on June 5, 2002
"What problem Chechnya has ever been to you?"

errr...the fact that one of the fuckers could end up killing me when i join the army???

the fact that there calls for independance have resulted in bombs going off all over russia???

the fact that we are at war with them????

the fact that many russian comrades have died fighting them???

If you are in the war sitaution then everybody may kill you, would you prefer a soldier who kills you because of money or a soldier who kills you because of his homeland. In war life isn't guaranteed for nobody. You go to a peaceful conference if you want to live.

Bombing... it has too parts. If an invaded nation wants to regain independence and you have something to said against it then... I think that every wish for freedom is sain and totally normal. Only egoistic people who suffer from nationalistic superiority complex can be against it. And of course 10% of the bombings have been made by guys from Chechen nationality and others have 'made by them'. But even those that they've done are just an extreme possibility to show the world what they really want. One bomb to Russia and all the world is talking about it, bombs from Russia to Chechnya and all the village is dead and the world doesn't even notice.

Chechen connections with Al Quaeda aren't that strong at all. If you knew better the local situation then you knew that most Caucasians were called 'Chechens' in Afghanistan. And those Chechens who fought there did it for money, they needed it. Taliban was the only power who really gave them some support. I do understand why they accepted it, I would have done the same if the whole world had turned me it's back.

Most of Chechens aren't Moslem Fundamentalists. You should read the Chechen constitution! And talk to some people.

(Edited by Maaja at 3:33 pm on June 5, 2002)

Maaja

5th June 2002, 13:29

Quote: from lenin on 3:25 pm on June 5, 2002
what?? we already lost the USSR now you want us to lose russia aswell?? why? chechyna is a part of russia just as californai is a part of USA! we have already been embaressed enough in chechnya, are you saying we should pull out? what chance of regaining superpower status do we have if we pull out? we will be a lauging stock (not that we aren't already!).

Very stupid of you to compare Chechenya with California. There's a big difference. Chechens do totally differ from Russians, they do have their own language, their own culture and different lifestyle.
You should learn more about history and find out that Checheny has not always been the part of Russia.

lenin

5th June 2002, 13:34

"One bomb to Russia and all the world is talking about it, bombs from Russia to Chechnya and all the village is dead and the world doesn't even notice."

thats a naive comment. USA and UN has been berating us for years now because of 'human rights violations'.
i have got no nationonlsit complex. if you read my other post about nationalism, you will find i think nationalism is bad. but nationalism means nations. chchnya want there won nation. thats nationalism.

Maaja

5th June 2002, 13:38

I do support Chechens nationalism because it exist only because they want to free themselves from the opressor called Russia. Every country has the right for self determination. Then maybe you agree also with those Americans who say that Cuba has no right to have Fidel on power and that they should do what U$ says?

I do think that my comment is not naive. It's true. Of course Human Right Watchers are talking about human right violations about Chechnya but they don't do it enough.

lenin

5th June 2002, 13:42

well i have to say i disagree with you. as a communist, i support the reconstruction of the USSR (obviously not entirly). this is not going to happen by dropping countries from the russian federation. what have you got against russia? i see you are estonian and i think people hate russia there, is this true?

Maaja

5th June 2002, 13:50

I don't hate Russia or Russians, I do have some Russian friends here and also in Russia. I just hate that what Russia did to Estonia. What did the tzarist Russia and what did the Soviet Russia. I have to admit that some things were better under the Soviet regime but in general life sucked. And it wasn't the worse in Estonia, as much as I've heard Estonia was a paradise compared to other republics.

And I can't understand people who doesn't agree with the fact that every nation has the right for the self determination. I am sure that you would agree with me if you came from a little nation. In some way I do understand why do you think that what you are thinking.

Maaja

5th June 2002, 13:58

By the way, you can go to www.ichkeria.org

It's a totally independent Chechen site. Not given any money by Arabian countries (www.kavkaz.org . the worse Chechen site I know), not also a pro-Russian.

Natalenko

5th June 2002, 14:29

My two cents is free:

Chechenya is to Russia as Tibet is to China.
If you dont beleive to free Chechenya, then forget tibet!

PaulDavidHewson

5th June 2002, 17:11

If you think Chechenya is a part of Russia then you probably also think Belarus and the likes are part of
Russia (CCCP nostalgia?)

lenin

5th June 2002, 17:37

not part of russia, that would suggest imperialism, it is part of the USSR. belarus wants to be part of russia (ussr) anyway. within next 5 or so years, russia and belarus will form a nation state.

Mac OS Revolutionary

5th June 2002, 20:59

Quote: from lenin on 9:01 am on June 5, 2002
marc OS, learn about stalin from someone other than a western history teacher.
if he fucked the economy and military so bad, how come USSR was number 2 economy in the world in 1953 and one of only two world super powers in military status in 1953, when previously, USSR was probbly not even in top 10 in either of these catagories?

Maybe you should open your eyes and look at Stalin properly. He rebuilt ther economy because he sacrificed the well-being of the people for sake of industry.

Stalin was not a great leader. Unless you define a great leader as a parniod, mass-murdering and foolish.

And if I listen to western propaganda I would not be communist.