True Communists

[RedSovietCCCP]

"In this sense, the theory of Communist may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property." qouted from the communists manifesto. I beleive this, lenin does, thine stalin does , ggacky does and others do. Does this make us Neo, facists as others said we are????? NO!!!!!!!!!!! We are the true communists. The communists ideology is entirely based on workers rights and the working class and Economic equality. It does not say let people do as they like. This concept will never work, your government would be to weak and fail. So you so called communist out there I would like to see you prove me wrong about the whole concept of communism. Come on micheal where you at!!!!!!

[lenin]

come on comrades! i don't see any replies????

[libereco]

who disagreed with the abolition of private property?

What most people here, including myself, is the authorian party rule that you wish to establish.

I believe in organisation of the workers for themselves. I want the workers to own their own workplace. Not some fucking state that is led by a Dictator that is "oh so strong" and that offs dissidents for having another viewpoint.

You can try to justify your authorian power grabbing tendencies by saying "it' for the workers" all you want, it's not. It's for the PARTY. It's not a classless society when there is a line drawn between the party pigs and the workers.

This is the point where i think we disagree i'll draw it out for you:

you: Humans are by nature selfish, corrupt and bad. We have to force them to be good with a strong police force, army, secret service and lenient party rule!

me: Humans are by nature good (though many have been corrupted) there is no need to Force them into equality. And if humans were by nature bad, and there were a need to force them into communism, then we might as well become capitalists or go live in a hole.

feel free to correct my assumptions...



(Edited by libereco at 4:55 pm on May 30, 2002)

[James]

First of all, why not post this with the rest of the debate?

I respect you opinion, and understand that you have a great belief in leninism and the what knot.


Does this make us Neo, facists as others said we are?????

No, but the other stuff you said i'm afriad does give this impression.

Totalitarian governments are what i'm all against. They exploit the "workers", and is much easy for it to get on the downward momentuem. All tjhey do is make life better for the people when they think they can get stuff back out of them (ie better work). They arn't for the poeple. They are for the control. If totalitarianism is communism, and communism is totalitarianism, then i don't think i'm a communist. In fact, if thats true, i'm against communism. I'm personally for making democracy work most effiecently. I can back democracy up too, it worked very well in ancient greece. But, everyone had to know each other. Thats what the creators said about democracy. Democracy i suppose doesn't work in vast vast numbers, everyones opinion gets diliuted down with everyone elses. Thats why i'm for regional democracy. Working on a community basses. And then on a world basses. I could argue that truely thats what communism is. Working as a community (hence the communi). I'd be intrested in what people think i am, because after seeing such dedicated people as your self, talk about communism. I don't feel that i am a "communist". Please tell me what you think, i'm often wrong you see.

James

[Nateddi]

State capitalism is worse than capitalism. State capitalism is the worst form of capitalism because there is one monopoly dictating prices at their wish (state). Totalitarian government establishes the state, and gives it too much power, which leads to state-capitalism.

[Michael De Panama]

Idiot. You completely took that line out of context. I know that line very well. I am in complete agreement with the abolition of private property. However, Marx's point was that the bourgeoisie are the only ones who actually have any property. Therefore, everyone would be equal. Communism is a system of social equality, not just economic equality. Marx even later stated in the Manifesto that capital itself is a social power, not an economic power.

And yes, you are still a proletarian fascist.

[Michael De Panama]

Oh, by the way, this may come as a shock to you but Marx wasn't the first communist.

[lenin]

de panama, you are so arrogant in your beliefs it is untrue! can't you accept that there is more than one form of communism? or are you so arrogant, that you think you understand what marx was saying word for word?
communism=abolishion of private property. any government that aboloshies private property, can technically be called communist. there are many forms of aboloshing private property. there is stalinism, there is anarchism, there is liberal communism, there is utopian communism. all are different forms of communism. of stalin was a fascist, why didn't he use the swastika for the soviet flag? he was a communist, he just had different social views than you. which obvioulsy makes him an idot, right?
the left wing of politics is very complicated. if i discussed social issues with adolph hitler, apart from the racism, we would agree on most things. does that make me right wing? if i discussed economics with you, we would also agree on most things, which would make us both economic communists because political allegiance is basically based on economics. however, socially, you are libertarian and i am authoritarian. we are both still communists though. we both have the same goals, its just i am more realistic and want to take things slower.

(Edited by lenin at 5:05 pm on May 30, 2002)

[RedSovietCCCP]

Micheal, when did marx state that that communinsm is social equality. I went over and over the manifesto and there is no such remark. How many times do I have to say this, Communism is based entirly on economic Equality and the working class. I'm wondering if you even have a manifesto Micheal? and how did I take that line out of context micheal? your the Idiot, you don't even understand the manifesto. This is a remark for nateddi. "Extension of factories and instuments of production owned by the state." as qouted in the manifesto. don't you get the state is the people and the people is the state. Here's other one micheal, " Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels." as stated by marx. does that sound like social equality. I don't think so. One last thing Micheal you are still insulting me and my other critics argue with me in a mature way. Like I said before grow up!!!!

[James]

the state is the people and the people is the state.

But is the state the people if its run by a few elite?

James

[lenin]

but how did the 'elite' get there? not through hereditary privaleges like in capitalism! anyway they aren't the 'elite'! anyone can join the communist party! there is no elitism in the party at all. those who have risen to the top have worked hard and deserve to be there!

[RedSovietCCCP]

The few elite is elected by the people of that town or district like in china. James I would like to thank you for not insulting me for my beleifs and having a mature agrument with me. Micheal learn something from james!!!

[libereco]

arguing about the exact words of Karl Marx is idiotic. Marx was not a perfect human being either, and just because he said A is true that doesn't make A true, or disprove B.

You're treating Marx as if you were a Christian talking about Jesus.

[Capitalist]

I agree Mark was not perfect.

He was also an idiot.

[Michael De Panama]

Mark? That's strange. The "X" is on the opposite side of the keyboard as the "K". And you're calling someone else an idiot?

[Guest1]

haha, who told you to get in this argument anyway, cappie? Why should there be a proxy for the people? If the state is the people, then why should the state have power over the people? You just setup the perfect argument for democracy. If the people brought the party to power and the people should have the power, then we want as much power to the people as possible. You may quote one book as much as you want, but until you've read a diverse wealth of communist literature, you are the one who has been miseducated. Marx is not god, you've been watching quest for the holy grail way too much. Marx is a genius, but his complete trust of the dictator is wrong. The dictatorship of the proletariat is a huge window for injustice. There is no need for tyranny.

Peace