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View Full Version : Lenin's error re. state capitalism vs. "socialism" (and "left-wing" childishness)



Die Neue Zeit
29th March 2008, 18:41
During the past week the level of "noise" regarding wage slavery and the proper socialist mode of production (based on compensation through labour-time vouchers) has gone up. Over the past while I've read some stuff on this topic myself:


What he has given to it is his individual quantum of labor. For example, the social working day consists of the sum of the individual hours of work; the individual labor time of the individual producer is the part of the social working day contributed by him, his share in it. He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another.

Here, obviously, the same principle prevails as that which regulates the exchange of commodities, as far as this is exchange of equal values. Content and form are changed, because under the altered circumstances no one can give anything except his labor, and because, on the other hand, nothing can pass to the ownership of individuals, except individual means of consumption. But as far as the distribution of the latter among the individual producers is concerned, the same principle prevails as in the exchange of commodity equivalents: a given amount of labor in one form is exchanged for an equal amount of labor in another form.

And this, too:


The means of production are no longer the private property of individuals. The means of production belong to the whole of society. Every member of society, performing a certain part of the socially-necessary work, receives a certificate from society to the effect that he has done a certain amount of work. And with this certificate he receives from the public store of consumer goods a corresponding quantity of products. After a deduction is made of the amount of labor which goes to the public fund, every worker, therefore, receives from society as much as he has given to it.



I hereby bring to attention of comrades Lenin's error, however:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/scientific-anarchist-late-t72293/index.html

In the same work (State and Revolution), Lenin, while paraphrasing Marx, also gives hints of his still-Social-Democratic equation of the socialist mode of production with what he called later on "state-capitalist monopoly made to benefit the whole people" (what I call proletocratic capitalism):


All citizens are transformed into hired employees of the state, which consists of armed workers ... The whole society will have become a single office and a single factory, with equality of labour and pay.

In "Left-Wing" Childishness, Lenin wrote:


To make things even clearer, let us first of all take the most concrete example of state capitalism. Everybody knows what this example is. It is Germany. Here we have “the last word” in modern large-scale capitalist engineering and planned organisation, subordinated to Junker-bourgeois imperialism. Cross out the words in italics, and in place of the militarist, Junker, bourgeois, imperialist state put also a state, but of a different social type, of a different class content—a Soviet state, that is, a proletarian state, and you will have the sum total of the conditions necessary for socialism.

This same error is carried over to the ideological spinoffs (Trotskyism, Marxism-Leninism, and MLM).



Now, before some non-Leninist comes in here and tries to display "left-wing childishness" by shouting "Ha! Lenin was a REVISIONIST!" (ComradeRed, this is you ;) :D ) - keep in mind that state capitalism developed quite a bit since Marx wrote his critique of the Gotha programme. Only because of the stagnation of dynamics pertaining to the extreme forms of state capitalism since Stalin's time can one say that the modern spinoff error is both reductionist and revisionist.

Also, the law of uneven development shouldn't be ignored:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/law-uneven-development-t72803/index.html


The whole global economy should be referred to as a "multi-economy" (for the purpose of this discussion).

Take the financial sector, for example (I'll give two or three here). The global proletocracy would absorb most of this sector into the state-capitalist economy, but there would still be the niche "credit unions" to serve as local competition (the private-capitalist economy, yet in this example "cooperative" in nature). The directly democratic elements ("socialist sector" - ie, no bureaucracy, but with sufficient communications technology to make society-wide decisions [based on labour-time]) would take quite a bit of time to wrest control of the financial sector from the state-capitalist economy, all the while competing with state enterprises. Then there are ["gift"]/communist considerations to consider (upon communism eliminating this sector completely).

Second example: in the case of the capital-intense "heavy industry" (especially construction and the related heavy urban development projects, which is dear to me), the "niche" would be either much smaller or non-existent (because of improved, yet capital-intensive, information technology in controlling manufacturing processes, for example), but direct democracy would also come after a protracted period of state monopoly capitalism. The ["gift"]/communist economy would emerge MUCH later.

Third example (and this one's dear to Ben): the media. In this one, I'm not sure if the private-capitalist economy will be existent immediately afterwards. The Big Media will have been wrested by the state-capitalist economy, and even then methinks the directly democratic economy will QUICKLY wrest this away from state capitalism. Furthermore, ["gift"] relations will be more prevalent here than in the financial services (the Internet). According to this example of uneven development, the full socialization of the media - and partial communization - will occur much faster than those of the financial and heavy-manufacturing sectors.

gilhyle
31st March 2008, 00:05
Nah, I disagree with you cos in my experience Lenin was never wrong. I dont quite get your point but I get that its a criticism of Lenin and since he is never wrong that means you must be. :D

Die Neue Zeit
5th April 2008, 19:00
Anyhow, any serious thoughts on this?

Fundamental Principles of Communist Production and Distribution (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/6579/)

Niccolò Rossi
6th April 2008, 11:13
Anyhow, any serious thoughts on this?

Jacob I'm not quite sure what responses you are looking for, but in an attempt to breath life into one of your threads that too often die due to lack of interest, I will comment. :D

All I can say is that you have displayed a very important contradiction in the ideas of Lenin, that is in his conception of socialism. Lenin certainly has made a mistake in calling "state-capitalist monopoly made to benefit the whole people" socialism, for it is not. This may simply be an error of semantics, or a case of ambiguity in his choice of words:


the sum totalof the conditions necessary for socialism

This may imply that state capitalism does not define socialism, but rather state capitalism is a necessary element of the transition to socialist economics.

But all this is rather irrelevant and it can be seen that Lenin did indeed make an error in equating socialism with state capitalism.


This same error is carried over to the ideological spinoffs (Trotskyism, Marxism-Leninism, and MLM)

I completely, completely agree with this!

Die Neue Zeit
7th April 2008, 23:08
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1117298&postcount=16

Enjoy Bordiga's work above. :)

Die Neue Zeit
1st June 2008, 18:25
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/oct/01.htm


This brings us to another aspect of the question of the state apparatus. In addition to the chiefly "oppressive" apparatus—the standing army, the police and the bureaucracy—the modern state possesses an apparatus which has extremely close connections with the banks and syndicates, an apparatus which performs an enormous amount of accounting and registration work, if it may be expressed this way. This apparatus must not, and should not, be smashed. It must be wrested from the control of the capitalists; the capitalists and the wires they pull must be cut off, lopped off, chopped away from this apparatus; it must be subordinated to the proletarian Soviets; it must be expanded, made more comprehensive, and nation-wide. And this can be done by utilising the achievements already made by large-scale capitalism (in the same way as the proletarian revolution can, in general, reach its goal only by utilising these achievements).

Capitalism has created an accounting apparatus in the shape of the banks, syndicates, postal service, consumers' societies, and office employees' unions. Without big banks socialism would be impossible.

The big banks are the "state apparatus" which we need to bring about socialism, and which we take ready-made from capitalism; our task here is merely to lop off what capitalistically mutilates this excellent apparatus, to make it even bigger, even more democratic, even more comprehensive. Quantity will be transformed into quality. A single State Bank, the biggest of the big, with branches in every rural district, in every factory, will constitute as much as nine-tenths of the socialist apparatus. This will be country wide book-keeping, country-wide accounting of the production and distribution of goods, this will be, so to speak, some thing in the nature of the skeleton of socialist society.

We can "lay hold of" and "set in motion" this "state apparatus" (which is not fully a state apparatus under capitalism, but which will be so with us, under socialism) at one stroke, by a single decree, because the actual work of book-keeping, control, registering, accounting and counting is performed by employees, the majority of whom themselves lead a proletarian or semi-proletarian existence.

By a single decree of the proletarian government these employees can and must be transferred to the status of state employees, in the same way as the watchdogs of capitalism like Briand and other bourgeois ministers, by a single decree, transfer railwaymen on strike to the status of state employees. We shall need many more state employees of this kind, and more can be obtained, because capitalism has simplified the work of accounting and control, has reduced it to a comparatively simple system of book-keeping, which any literate person can do.

The conversion of the bank, syndicate, commercial, etc., etc., rank-and-file employees into state employees is quite feasible both technically (thanks to the preliminary work performed for us by capitalism, including finance capitalism) and politically, provided the Soviets exercise control and supervision.



I was thinking about how this quote contradicted Marx's minimum demand in the Manifesto for "centralisation of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly."

Then again, I was browsing today some info on one Rudolf Hilferding. It seems that Lenin got this idea from him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hilferding#Finance_Capital


Once finance capital has brought the most important branches of production under its control, it is enough for society, through its conscious executive organ — the state conquered by the working class — to seize financial capital in order to gain immediate control of those branches of production.

trivas7
1st June 2008, 21:30
Are you saying (among other things) that while underdevelopment and international opposition were contributing factors, the primary blame for the failure of the Russian Revolution to advance the causes of economic justice and democracy lies with anti-democratic choices made by the Bolshevik leadership in the first few years after overthrowing Czarist tyranny? It's a pretty basic point, I realize.

Die Neue Zeit
1st June 2008, 22:24
This has nothing to do with the Russian revolution per se, but rather a theoretical stumble on the part of Lenin: "For socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be capitalist monopoly." (http://www.revleft.com/vb/lenins-conception-socialism-t74699/index.html)

[Sadly, he was very much mistaken in this view.]

Rawthentic
1st June 2008, 22:32
Jacob, would you mind explaining what you mean by calling Leninism and MLM "ideological spin offs"?

Die Neue Zeit
1st June 2008, 22:38
"Leninism" or "Leninist Marxism" = strictly the ideas of Lenin (eschewing any interpretations whatsoever from the Trotskyist, M-L, and MLM traditions), which for the most part were the ideas of Kautsky as interpreted by Lenin

"Marxism-Leninism" = the ideas of Lenin as interpreted by Zinoviev, Kamenev, and particularly Stalin (the Trots call ML "Stalinism"), plus their own additions

MLM = Maoism

Trotskyism = the ideas of Trotsky, which included ideas of Lenin as interpreted by Trotsky

gilhyle
1st June 2008, 23:14
Well JR I still dont get the error. Lenin correctly believed that the possession of the state by the working class was the minimum precondtion for the development of socialism and that some level of state capitalist organisation was a likely first phase of the process. I would find it helpful if you could say briefly here, rather than in a link what is so terribly wrong with that.

Die Neue Zeit
1st June 2008, 23:26
^^^ But the problem with that defense is that Lenin actually stopped at state-capitalist monopoly (borrowing almost entirely from Hilferding's Finance Capital). The problem with state-capitalist monopoly on all economic relations is that it prevents the emergence of the truly social-proletocratic economy (labour-time vouchers), because it's based on wage labour, and especially because of its monopolistic nature.

Here's my take on the erroneous quote of Lenin:

For socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be [bourgeois] monopoly."

If you recall my Theory threads on "multiple modes of production (http://www.revleft.com/vb/multiple-modern-modes-t75252/index.html)" and "capitalism without bourgeois rule (http://www.revleft.com/vb/capitalism-without-bourgeois-t71423/index.html)," you'll note that the capitalist mode of production per se doesn't need the bourgeois barons at the top to perform the M-C-M process.

Yes, state-capitalist development will be necessary (ie, the Trotskyist conception of socialism) under ordinary proletocracy, but only as part of the bigger "multi-economy." Only with the abolition of wage slavery and the institution of labour-time economics - under workers' control and not Bordiga's bureaucratic scheme - can there be social proletocracy.

BobKKKindle$
2nd June 2008, 11:25
What is wrong with Lenin's understanding of Socialism? Lenin is making a distinction between state-capitalism and Socialism - both of these economic systems are based on state ownership, but under state-capitalism, even though the state has taken control of the property of the bourgeoisie, the bourgeoisie is able to retain its position as the ruling class, because the state is used as a means to support bourgeois privilege when private property is not sufficient. Socialism is also based on state ownership, but property is nationalized through a violent seizure of the means of production (as part of the revolutionary struggle against the bourgeoisie) and the means of production are managed through democratic institutions which form the basis of the workers state ("made to serve the interests of the whole people") and so nationalization signifies the expropriation of the bourgeoisie, not the defense of bourgeois privilege (as under state-capitalism).

This shows how nationalization can have a dual character - when nationalization occurs within the framework of capitalism in the absence of prolonged class struggle, it supports the bourgeoisie (as shown by the recent example of Northern Rock) but when nationalization occurs as a component of a revolutionary struggle, when the proletariat is changing the way society is organised and engaging in class struggle, nationalization destroys the bourgeoisie by removing the basis of bourgeois privilege - control of the means of production.

Die Neue Zeit
7th June 2008, 18:26
Social Proletocracy, Marx, and Lenin's theoretical mistakes (http://www.revleft.com/vb/social-proletocracy-marx-t80882/index.html)

I know you don't like my "link" habit, but reading the above link IN FULL (which is my recent article submission, BTW ;) ) would help you to better understand where I'm coming from.