Mexican Revolution Underway?

[Forward Union]

Mountain of Guerrero, 24 of March.
Dozens of indigenous announced their integration to the Revolutionary Army of the Insurgent People (ERPI) and announced that "we are not going to wait until 2010* to make the revolution in Guerrero; here in the Mountains we are already doing it. From here, we will defend our petroleum and natural resources. With militant action we are going to demand teachers, doctors and hospitals. We no longer believe in any political party, in Governor Zeferino Torreblanca or in Felipe Calderón," affirmed indigenous militiaman Ramon.



*They cite 2010 as the date of the revolution because 1910 was the last revolution and 1810 was the first mexican revolution. "The Other Camapign" has been built in Mexico to prepaire for Revolution in 2010.

This is while the EZLN have now abandoned all public appearances, with their spokesman Subcomandante Marcos saying "Those of us who have made war know what prepairations for war look like"... things could get hot I suppose.

Another statement made by one of the insurgents;

“motioned that we cannot wait any longer, it is already overdue; that is how we see it. For us the indigenous of the Mountain of Guerrero, no other way now exists other than that of revolution, we have already tried all possible routes to secure indigenous rights, but the peaceful route has never produced anything, on the contrary, day by day the situation becomes more difficult”
And lastly

“Today we have met to solve our problems. We are analyzing why the 1910 revolution began, and have reached the conclusion that it was because of the bad behaviour of the government. For this reason we say that dead or alive we are going to decide through way of revolution, because we no longer want to hear more speeches. The soldiers are not children of the rich but of poor people, and in a short while, when something happens (the revolution), we think that they are going to support us, for that reason we are calling on all the indigenous of the country to join the ERPI, because now we declare the revolution, many years have already passed, the indigenous know that our Mexico belongs to the poor.”

:star:

[Keyser]

What is the Revolutionary Army of the Insurgent People (ERPI)?

Is the ERPI part of the Zapatista movement, a split from it by dissolusioned EZLN members or a new grouping?

What is it's ideology and what exactly does it mean by a revolution, a guerrilla war, a foco, a People's War, an armed uprising of the urban working class, a general strike?

[BIG BROTHER]

What is the Revolutionary Army of the Insurgent People (ERPI)?

Is the ERPI part of the Zapatista movement, a split from it by dissolusioned EZLN members or a new grouping?

What is it's ideology and what exactly does it mean by a revolution, a guerrilla war, a foco, a People's War, an armed uprising of the urban working class, a general strike?

Sadly enough and being a Mexican myself I have never heard of those guys before.

But I could almost bet my life, that this groups has nothing to do with EZLN, in great part, because if they were they would be more known and seccond because they are from another state(Guerrero) and the EZLN is in chiapas.

Their ideology, for me it seems that they're ideology is just that they're tired of the bad goverment with politicians who only get rich with the peoples money and never do their promises. Like they said all they want is hospitals and such. This movements that are the most sincere usually don't have an ideology just a group of people who are tired of the injustice and inequality of Mexico, and want to do something about.

¡Tierra y libertad!

[ellipsis]

As far as I know they are completely seperate. Guerrero is a completely different state than Chiapas. I do not know much about the ERPI except that they emerged around the same time as the EZLN. Here is a link a found:http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=4541

Wat Tyler- I have my fingers crossed. Hopefully I will be in the right place at the right time.

[Forward Union]

Sadly enough and being a Mexican myself I have never heard of those guys before.

They only anounced their existance 5 days ago, mate :p Did you hear about the EZLN when it formed in the 1980s?


But I could almost bet my life, that this groups has nothing to do with EZLN

Sorry to be a bit patronising, but to wonder if the EZLN is linked to these guys is pretty Bombastic. EZLN is an army set up to defend the autonomous communities in Chiapas. Guerrero is not that near Chiapas. Secondly the EZLN is bound by a ceasfire and cannot openly declare support or affilition to a gorup that has just declaired revolution. But Im sure all these inssurectionary groups have a level of contact.

There are several Gurellia armies in Mexico (more every month), and numerous millitant Unions in the urban centers that do mass-strike action and other actions. Everyone in Mexico is radicalised and hardly any of the groups/unions/people are formally linked to the EZLN or the Zapatista movement. Some are linked to "The other campaign" though.


Their ideology, for me it seems that they're ideology is just that they're tired of the bad goverment with politicians who only get rich with the peoples money and never do their promises. Like they said all they want is hospitals and such. This movements that are the most sincere usually don't have an ideology just a group of people who are tired of the injustice and inequality of Mexico, and want to do something about.

I'm sure they have an ideology or statement of beliefs, aims and principals. But we wont hear about it for a while I'm sure.

[Forward Union]

Wat Tyler- I have my fingers crossed. Hopefully I will be in the right place at the right time.

Well, I will be there again later this year. When are you going?

[Forward Union]

Here is a link a found:http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=4541

No the EPR are a different group based in Chiapas. keep up :p

[More Fire for the People]

:star3::star:!!! Too long have indigenous people been subjugated to the tyranny of white and ostensibly 'mestizo' landowners. I am excited to hear about the prospects of Amero-Indians organizing and developing a body politic. I think we will see greater integration of different revolutionary groups as time proceeds.

[BIG BROTHER]

Quote:
Originally Posted by josefrancisco http://img.revleft.com/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1109989#post1109989)
Sadly enough and being a Mexican myself I have never heard of those guys before.

They only anounced their existance 5 days ago, mate :p Did you hear about the EZLN when it formed in the 1980s?

ah! lol that's good. And I wasn't even born in 1980's I didn't hear of the EZLN until they rebelled in 1994 but back then I was just a kid so I didn't understand much of what happened.


Quote:
Their ideology, for me it seems that they're ideology is just that they're tired of the bad goverment with politicians who only get rich with the peoples money and never do their promises. Like they said all they want is hospitals and such. This movements that are the most sincere usually don't have an ideology just a group of people who are tired of the injustice and inequality of Mexico, and want to do something about.
I'm sure they have an ideology or statement of beliefs, aims and principals. But we wont hear about it for a while I'm sure.

Yeah I agree, what I meant to say is that rightnow their imediate goals and motivation is to end the misery that they have to endure.

[black magick hustla]

Dude, there are literally dozens of "revolutionary armies" lurking in the south. All of them have declared the revolution. :glare:

[Devrim]

Posted on Libcom on the same issue:

Oh wow, another Libcom poster arbitrarily decides Mexico's on the verge of revolution from his internet connection in Reading or something.
The EPR are a Leninist guerrilla outfit loosely based on FARC. They originally disbanded in 1997, only to magically re-emerge bombing a bank in Ciudad de Oaxaca during the movement there in 2006 and since then have periodically bombed gas pipelines and stuff like. The Zapatistas very pointedly turned down their request to collate their efforts at a time in which a merging of the two could have spelt a national insurrection. They've also kept them distant from La Otra Campana. Their sudden lurch towards terrorism in the last couple of years seems rather suspicious to many, and there's many suggestions that the 21st century version's government-infiltrated or possibly black agents. The benefits of their existence to the government's counter-insurgency in Oaxaca - and the current hot button issue of its attempted privatisation of country's oil reserves - is clear.
From what I'm reading in La Jornada, the latest clash in Guerrero was actually between two armed groups ie drugs cartels. No surprise there really, Mexico's currently in the middle of a bloody drugs war, in which the loser is everyone who's not a fucking soldier or drugs dealer (or both), and that kinda thing's happening on at least a weekly basis.


Devrim

[AGITprop]

Well they might as well join FARC.

I don't see a handful or rebels accomplishing anything other than giving the left a blacker name. I'm sure they are militant, but they need clear ideologically based leadership, and they are useless unless they agitate the workers and have their full support.

We'll see what this develops into.

[black magick hustla]

Posted on Libcom on the same issue:


Devrim

This is an organization called EPRI, not the EPR (Ejército Popular Revolucionario).

Anyway, qs I said, there are literally dozens of "revolutionary armies", most of them peasant-based, or based around University types.

[Os Cangaceiros]

They only anounced their existance 5 days ago, mate :p Did you hear about the EZLN when it formed in the 1980s?


That's strange, because ERPI is specifically mentioned in the book "Homage to Chiapas", which was published in 2000, I believe.

It even has a picture of an ERPI guerilla in Guererro.

On page xvi, under the "Organizations, Parties, and Unions" header:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0Rw8x4dZsf4C&printsec=index&dq=homage+to+chiapas&source=gbs_toc_s&cad=1#PPR16,M1

[Bilan]

Despite Marmots frustrating cynicism, it shall be interesting to see how this plays out, and what occurs.

[Devrim]

Well they might as well join FARC.

You are in the wrong country.

Devrim

[Devrim]

Despite Marmots frustrating cynicism, it shall be interesting to see how this plays out, and what occurs.

Marmot's 'frustrating cynicism' is entirely justified.

The question is whether 'anarchists' believe that revolution is made by the working class or made by middle class leftist intellectuals going to the countryside and trying to form peasants into some gang organisation.

Devrim

[black magick hustla]

Despite Marmots frustrating cynicism, it shall be interesting to see how this plays out, and what occurs.

lol, i dont think it is "cyninism", everything i said is true. in fact, a few months ago, a new guerrilla was declared in oaxaca. :lol:

dude, its extremely easy to declare a guerrilla.. you just assemble either a bunch of bored university kids (basically Sendero Luminoso), or very frustrated peasants, coin up a catchy name, and then write a flowery communique.

"El Universal" a right wing paper, says that there are about "30" armed groups in Mexico.

Its not like getting arms in Mexico is extremely difficult. The Golfo Cartel, a drug dealing criminal organization, has about 15 000 foot soldiers.
There is very little to do with communism about assembling a bunch of bored cats and declaring war to the state. Notice how all of this armed groups have very little relation with workers, and generally operate in the most backward, rural areas in the south, or around students of UNAM. In my opinion, its much more difficult (and boring) to organize around workers in urban areas, trying to build independent working class organization, than just getting a bunch of cute firearms from tepito and then putting yourself as the new vanguard.

[Bilan]

Marmot's 'frustrating cynicism' is entirely justified.

The question is whether 'anarchists' believe that revolution is made by the working class or made by middle class leftist intellectuals going to the countryside and trying to form peasants into some gang organisation.

Devrim

Now, Devrim, I neither said he was wrong, nor he was right, but that he was being frustratingly cynical. In any case, there's a possibility that he's right, and that this will be just another guerilla group declaring war on the state but having little impact (if any).

I don't think its fair for you to call into question my politics as an anarchist on this. This is not about anarchism, more, it's about what this guerilla group is, and whether or not it will have an impact.
From what I've seen, which is limited to this thread, I know little, and I'm not claiming 'authority' on the subject, as I lack it. More, hope that things will change, and that the tide will rise in Mexico and oust the government.

And you know well that I know that the working class makes revolutions.

[Devrim]

it's about what this guerilla group is, and whether or not it will have an impact.

Do you think that it is possible for groups like this to be pro-working class?

I wasn't only questioning you. I believe that the opening poster is an anarchist too.

Devrim

[Bilan]

Do you think that it is possible for groups like this to be pro-working class?

It's possible. The likelihood is another thing again, though.

[Forward Union]

Dude, there are literally dozens of "revolutionary armies" lurking in the south. All of them have declared the revolution. :glare:

Yes I am well aweare. And actually no, very few have declaired revolution. They claim to be aiming for it, many of them have a similar position to the Black Panthers and the idea of Duel Power.


The question is whether 'anarchists' believe that revolution is made by the working class or made by middle class leftist intellectuals going to the countryside and trying to form peasants into some gang organisation.

It can certainly involve Peasants or "Agricultural workers" as your unusual dictionary puts it. But it needs to be cross-industrial to suceed. But the point is yes devrim, they would be pro-working class, because they are working class.

[IronColumn]

So that Anarchists aren't completely discredited by some posters here:
http://libcom.org/library/a-critique-zapatista-other-campaign-grupo-socialista-libertario

A quite excellent article.

[Black Cross]

Wat Tyler- I have my fingers crossed. Hopefully I will be in the right place at the right time.

Well, I will be there again later this year. When are you going?

I'm headin that way within the first months of next year (after i finish my associates and finish learning spanish). Just seems like Mexico is the place to begin, with all the political unrest. Plus, I've always had a place in my heart for those suffering in Mexico (somewhat because of all the racists i'm surrounded by that constantly use the term mexican in a demeaning way)

IronColumn- I tried your link, but it didn't take me to any article. Could I have the name of the article and its author? Thanks.

As far as the ERPI goes, i wish them the best of luck, so far as they have the interests of the working class in mind. I have seen/read no reason to withhold my support for them thus far.

[Devrim]

But the point is yes devrim, they would be pro-working class, because they are working class.

So an organisations politics are judged on the social composition of its membership. That would make the CPs pro working class, and even the BNP.

In fact though the leadership of these sort of groups generally comes from the intelligentsia as is the case with the Zapatistas.


Peasants or "Agricultural workers" as your unusual dictionary

The fact that you don't understand how political terms have historically been used in the workers movement is not a fault of my dictionary.

Devrim

[black magick hustla]

Yes I am well aweare. And actually no, very few have declaired revolution. They claim to be aiming for it, many of them have a similar position to the Black Panthers and the idea of Duel Power.

Bah, clandestine guerrilleros shooting down soldiers, or at least, pretending to shoot soldiers, is the same as "declaring the revolution".

[black magick hustla]

To be honest, I find the whole deal of "the most miserable you are the more righteous you are" completely anti-marxist, and more akin to Christian windbaggery.

And this is the approach the messiahs of all those silly "guerrillas" are taking.

Reminds me of this http://www.theonion.com/content/news/rock_bottom_loser_entertaining

except change "religions" to "university kids with retarded ideas in their head"

[BIG BROTHER]

Marmot is in a way right, this groups ain't going to change Mexico from a neo-colony to a communist paradise but they also have somewhat of an impact. The EZLN works to raise consciousness of the people. Also this group all they want is land, hospitals, better quality they don't seek to overthrow the goverment is just their desperate way of drawing attention to see if they will finally be helped.

[chegitz guevara]

There have been guerrillas in the hills of Guerrero since the 60s. Several of the Southern Mexican states have minor insurgencies dating back to that time.

Declaring the revolution does not make it true. Furthermore, 1/3rd of Mexicans live in Mexico City. Guerrero, on the other hand, has a very low population density. This, as of yet, is an interesting fact, but not necessarily significant. The Oaxaca struggle is much more important.

[Forward Union]

So an organisations politics are judged on the social composition of its membership. That would make the CPs pro working class, and even the BNP.

As pointed out the BNP is actually mostly ex-tories, but I take your point on the chin.


In fact though the leadership of these sort of groups generally comes from the intelligentsia as is the case with the Zapatistas.

Not sure what you mean here, the leadership of the zapatistas changes every 10 days, and they're all mostly respected peasants.

I think you mean the EZLN, in which case fine, one of their leaders and spokesperson is an ex-teacher.


The fact that you don't understand how political terms have historically been used in the workers movement is not a fault of my dictionary

Well I obviously know now. The point is we're talking about "agricultural workers"

[Forward Union]

Declaring the revolution does not make it true.

Well done captain. I would have thought that was explitic.

The point is, if a group of 80 people (same size as the largest Anarhcist organsiation in the UK) feel confident to declare war on the Mexican federal army, what does that tell you about general public opinion in the region?

[Guerrilla Manila]

http://blogs.forteana.org/system/files/Subcomandante_marcos.jpg


Marcos is the only man who can rally Mexico. There are thousands of people all around the world and in Mexico, that would heed his call to arms ... if he declared it.

[Black Cross]

^^ I know I would

[black magick hustla]

http://blogs.forteana.org/system/files/Subcomandante_marcos.jpg


Marcos is the only man who can rally Mexico. There are thousands of people all around the world and in Mexico, that would heed his call to arms ... if he declared it.


AHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about chump!

[BIG BROTHER]

Actually Marcos does have a pretty big support. Wether that support could transalate to a mass revolution that would have to remain to be seen, but unlike the now death Raul Reyes, the hated presidente Gonzalo, and uknown leaders Marcos has support from the Mexican people.

[Forward Union]

Marcos is the only man who can rally Mexico. There are thousands of people all around the world and in Mexico, that would heed his call to arms ... if he declared it.


I met him once (ok, I stood behind him for a while) in a meeting and he's just a fat old man. Actually, absoultely true story, I got in trouble for shouting "you fat bastard" at him at the encuentro. There's a letter of apology on my behalf somewhere out there.

But no, sorry, the revolution wont start when he clicks his fingers. He's a delegate of the democratic councils, so he can't make orders like that. In any case he's been breaking his back trying to organise the other campaign, and that's just about not falling apart.

[BIG BROTHER]

Absoultely true story, I got in trouble for shouting "you fat bastard" at him, at the 2nd Encuentro in 2007. I can quantify this but it'll take me a little while to dig up the evidence.

Why did you call him that though?:confused:

[Os Cangaceiros]

In case anyone is interested, this is from the aforementioned book, addressing the ERPI's 24 point manifesto:

"The 24 point manifesto mostly seemed to address the ERPI's differences with the EPR. Read point one: 'The fundamental commitment of the revolutionary is with the people. No other commitment, neither personal or group, is above that.' It rejected 'the messianic conception by which revolutionary organizations have seen themselves as represenatives of the people, who can only participate in the revolution through their own mediation.'

"Point two demanded 'construction of Popular Power, beginning now, in every aspect and until the ultimate consequences.' It called for formation of Insurgent Councils to wield executive power, and the preparation of "organs of legislative and judicial power in every zone, region, and state,' eventually readying a national Insurgent Popular Assembly. Admitting that 'it is easy to say, but not so easy to achieve,' it stated that "PP" should be "directed effectively by the people,' through representatives who 'lead by obeying,' that the revolutionary organization 'should be subordinate' to 'the base'. It credited the EZLN with 'establishing a different relation' with the base, and cited the 'obligation' to 'find new and always better forms of applying this norm'.

"Point three: 'Until now we have been concerned to build the Army of the Party; it is now the hour to build the Army of the people'. Point four: 'The liberty of the people cannot be conquered by any supposed vanguard, but by the people themselves. For this reason, we do not aspire to be a vanguard marching before the people, but to march together with the people in the struggle for democracy, justice, and liberty.' Five: 'It is the hour to build a party of the people, and not a "party of revolutionaries", who consider themselves to be above the people.'

"Point six decried the tendency of revolutionary organizations to 'prioritize discipline of a military character and deminish the weight of democracy...It is now the hour to give greater weight to democracy.' Point seven: 'Revolutionary theory, the arm of the Revolution, has in some cases been converted into an...arm against the Revolution.' It noted with irony that fighting with World War I-vintage arms would be considered absurd by revolutionaries who cling to "theoretical conceptions' from the same era. 'Yes, our ideology has Marxism as a base, but not the dogmatic, rigid, wizened version...Our theoretical position is impregnated with a critical, practical, creative and flexible* vision.'

And so on. As you can see, they took quite a few pages out of the EZLN's playbook.



*Revisionists! :scared:

[Forward Union]

Why did you call him that though?:confused:

Because he IS fat, and he moans about it in his letters.

[Guerrilla Manila]

You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about chump!

Sometimes it is better to keep your ***** ass mouth shut and be thought a fool .... than to open those dick sucking lips and remove all doubt.

;)

[Guerrilla Manila]

I got in trouble for shouting "you fat bastard" at him at the encuentro.

I wish I could have been there ...






to punch you in the nose. :)

[BIG BROTHER]

Because he IS fat, and he moans about it in his letters.

Do they photoshop his pictures then?lol no, really he doesn't look fat in pictures.

[Forward Union]

Do they photoshop his pictures then?lol no, really he doesn't look fat in pictures.

It'sa recent development, I havent seen many recent photos of him. Look how old he is now.

http://nyc.indymedia.org/images/2007/02/82719.png

[BIG BROTHER]

lol he does seem fatter in that picture. Damm to think that he can actually gain weight in the starving regions of chiapas. If he was in the U.S. he would have exploted he he he.

too bad I lost the only chance I had to see him in person.

[chegitz guevara]

Well done captain. I would have thought that was explitic.

The point is, if a group of 80 people (same size as the largest Anarhcist organsiation in the UK) feel confident to declare war on the Mexican federal army, what does that tell you about general public opinion in the region?

Very little.

[RedAnarchist]

Sometimes it is better to keep your ***** ass mouth shut and be thought a fool .... than to open those dick sucking lips and remove all doubt.

;)

That's neither necessary nor progressive, GM.

[black magick hustla]

Actually Marcos does have a pretty big support. Wether that support could transalate to a mass revolution that would have to remain to be seen, but unlike the now death Raul Reyes, the hated presidente Gonzalo, and uknown leaders Marcos has support from the Mexican people.

I never said he didn't have the simpathy of a lot of people, but stating that "Marcos could mobilize thousands for the revolution" is completely delusional and a misunderstanding of mexico's politics.

[BIG BROTHER]

I never said he didn't have the simpathy of a lot of people, but stating that "Marcos could mobilize thousands for the revolution" is completely delusional and a misunderstanding of mexico's politics.

I know, that's why I said that wether that support could transalate to mass revolution is another thing.

[Guerrilla Manila]

Look how old he is now.


Who the fuck cares, how old he looks ? :rolleyes: Are you applying to screw him ? He is a revolutionary leader ... not a playgirl model ... and his current appearance has no bearing on his ideas.

Why don't you go pledge your allegiance to Fabio or Brad Pitt, and leave these issues to those of us who don't read Paris Hilton magazines.


... What a superficial douche

[Red October]

Who the fuck cares, how old he looks ? :rolleyes: Are you applying to screw him ? He is a revolutionary leader ... not a playgirl model ... and his current appearance has no bearing on his ideas.

Why don't you go pledge your allegiance to Fabio or Brad Pitt, and leave these issues to those of us who don't read Paris Hilton magazines.


... What a superficial douche

You need to watch what you say. Wat Tyler has spent time in the Zapatista communities and knows a hell of a lot more about it than many of us, and certainly you. We're here to discuss the zapatistas, not flame comrades talk about "dick sucking lips". Grow up, loser.

[Guerrilla Manila]

You need to watch what you say. Wat Tyler has spent time in the Zapatista communities and knows a hell of a lot more about it than many of us, and certainly you. We're here to discuss the zapatistas, not flame comrades talk about "dick sucking lips". Grow up, loser.

I've spent time there as well. I've met Marcos ... and no he wasn't fat. I insulted Tyler in reference to him insulting me and calling me a "chump" ... and I only flame those that deserve it and in retaliation. Any "comrade" that judges the heroic Marcos by his "appearance" ... to me isn't one.

[Forward Union]

I've spent time there as well. I've met Marcos ... and no he wasn't fat. I insulted Tyler in reference to him insulting me and calling me a "chump" ... and I only flame those that deserve it and in retaliation. Any "comrade" that judges the heroic Marcos by his "appearance" ... to me isn't one.

Cool, where did you stay and which body did you do volonteer work with?

Furthermore I didn't call you a chump at any point, you fabricated that in your mind (which is quite worrying). Secondly I don't judge Marcos by his appearane, I have a lot of political appreciation for him, but am not without criticism, but this negates the fact that he is fat, and insults himself about it all the time (being such a supporter of the zaps I'm sure you've read this in the declarations)

Thirdly, you must know that Marcos has limited critical respect in the south of Mexico, and is refered to as "subcomedian marcos" in the north. He also has no decision making power, this rests with the Zapatista Juntas, and so Marcos actually can't declare war, even if he wanted to.

[Guerrilla Manila]

Furthermore I didn't call you a chump at any point, you fabricated that in your mind (which is quite worrying).

The confusion occured because it was in fact Marmut who called me a "Chump" in this thread ... and it was him that I used the "dick sucking lips" phrase with.

However, when Red October told me to watch what I saw in relation to you and that phrase, I mentioned that it was in retaliation for calling me a "chump" which is true ... but it was directed to Marmut (which it was) and not you.

[Forward Union]

The confusion occured because it was in fact Marmut who called me a "Chump" in this thread ... and it was him that I used the "dick sucking lips" phrase with.

However, when Red October told me to watch what I saw in relation to you and that phrase, I mentioned that it was in retaliation for calling me a "chump" which is true ... but it was directed to Marmut (which it was) and not you.

Ok. Please be calmer in future.

So which group did you go with to do volonteer work in Chiapas?

[blackstone]

Who the fuck cares, how old he looks ? :rolleyes: Are you applying to screw him ? He is a revolutionary leader ... not a playgirl model ... and his current appearance has no bearing on his ideas.

Why don't you go pledge your allegiance to Fabio or Brad Pitt, and leave these issues to those of us who don't read Paris Hilton magazines.


... What a superficial douche

This made me fall outta my seat.


But the dick-sucking lips comment wasn't appropriate, no matter who it was intended towards.

But we all must listen to Wat Tyler, he's been to Chiapas volunteering last year, and so knows that revolution in Mexico is imminent from his present location in the UK.

BTW, whats the word in Oaxaca? Still a revolution going there? Or did everyone's excitement where off? So i guess we can remove that subforum until somebody declares a revolution is happening somewhere else. Womp Womp.

[Forward Union]

BTW, whats the word in Oaxaca? Still a revolution going there? Or did everyone's excitement where off? So i guess we can remove that subforum until somebody declares a revolution is happening somewhere else. Womp Womp.

There ongoing tensions and the APPO still meets and organises. When I was there many of the Anarchists claim that the organisation is beign taken over by diplomats who want to come to agreements. It seems to be splitting down radical and reformist lines.

[Guerrilla Manila]

So which group did you go with to do volonteer work in Chiapas?

- I don't discuss my specific involvement with the Ejército Zapatista de Liberación Nacional ... and don't view my actions as "revolutionary tourism" to be shared with the world, especially since I have no idea who is reading this.

[Forward Union]

- I don't discuss my specific involvement with the Ejército Zapatista de Liberación Nacional ... and don't view my actions as "revolutionary tourism" to be shared with the world, especially since I have no idea who is reading this.

I suspect you have no experience with the Ejército Zapatista de Liberación Nacional because that would be impossible. They don't allow foreigners to join or participate in the army, and they never have (especially not teenagers from Florida). There is no way you could have done what you are claiming. And I know, because I have actually been there and met with the Junta. And done volonteer work in Zapatista territory, which I will talk about to a limited extent, but there are of course things I won't discuss. It's perfectly safe and legal to say you've done that, because it's civillian.

But if you had done work with the army, you've already done an increadibly stupid thing by saying so on a public forum. I mean, that's probably the only thing you shouldn't say, you might as well tell us the rest now.

If you genuinely have worked with the EZLN then you're the first person in history and this marks a dramatic change in the EZLNs political standards. Bascially, what you have said is ground breaking news. And consiquently, based on the fact you can't even maintain secrecy about it, that you're probably not EZLN material. And if they were going to break their principals (which they were'nt), they wouldn't do it for someone who would make such clumsy mistakes.

[Ferryman 5]

Rosa Lichtenstein (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?find=lastposter&t=74271) is a “moderator” which means she will threaten to shut you out of this site if you persist in arguing with here. That is why she is able to talk nonsense without sanction. The best thing is to pretend that she is of some consequence and talk round her.

[Forward Union]

wrong thread?

[BIG BROTHER]

I suspect you have no experience with the Ejército Zapatista de Liberación Nacional because that would be impossible. They don't allow foreigners to join or participate in the army, and they never have (especially not teenagers from Florida). There is no way you could have done what you are claiming. And I know, because I have actually been there and met with the Junta. And done volonteer work in Zapatista territory, which I will talk about to a limited extent, but there are of course things I won't discuss. It's perfectly safe and legal to say you've done that, because it's civillian.


Pardon my ignorance, but do they allow Mexicans? or do they only accept indegious people from chiapas?

[Guerrilla Manila]

I suspect you have no experience with the Ejército Zapatista de Liberación Nacional because that would be impossible. They don't allow foreigners to join or participate in the army, and they never have (especially not teenagers from Florida). There is no way you could have done what you are claiming. And I know, because I have actually been there and met with the Junta. And done volonteer work in Zapatista territory, which I will talk about to a limited extent, but there are of course things I won't discuss. It's perfectly safe and legal to say you've done that, because it's civillian.


- I'm not a teenager.
- I do live in Florida presently (but find it innappropriate for you to disclose that as a moderator)
- I have been to Chiapas several times and met with the EZLN.
- I don't need to justify my statements to you and don't give a shit what you think.
- I could care less that you think I am lying ... and actually prefer it that way.

[Guerrilla Manila]

(Looks at Wat Tylers profile on here)

:lol:

I just realized that I am getting crap from a 19 year old (actual teenager) British bloke, who thinks he is a "guerrilla" because he took a chic "tourist" trip to Chiapas (don't worry, the Starbucks was in a chilled thermos and the Birkenstocks didn't get muddy).

The fact that you have the nerve to talk shit to someone with vastly more education (qualified to be one of your professors), knowledge on these matters, and similar experience around the world ... is cute in a way ... or shall I use "cheeky".

I'm not mad ... more amused.


Cheerio. ;)

[Marsella]

How dare he discuss it with someone with vastly more educational experience like you!

The nerve of it all! By gosh!


- I'm not a teenager.
- I do live in Florida presently (but find it innappropriate for you to disclose that as a moderator)
- I have been to Chiapas several times and met with the EZLN.
- I don't need to justify my statements to you and don't give a shit what you think.
- I could care less that you think I am lying ... and actually prefer it that way.You forgot to add that you're a pigheaded ****.

Cheerio!

:)

[Entrails Konfetti]

You're such a liar; no one is convinced.

[Guerrilla Manila]

You forgot to add that you're a pigheaded ****.

... now his girlfriend shows up :rolleyes:

How I will sleep tonight knowing some ***** called me a "pigheaded ****" on a message board ???


No wonder parts of the left have so many problems organizing ... with this cast of dipshits putting out thousands of message board posts under a "Revolutionary" guise


... Where’s a re-education camp when you need one?

[Marsella]

... now his girlfriend shows up :rolleyes:

Yeah, just because I attacked you over your pigheadedness I am automatically Wat's girlfriend. :glare:


How I will sleep tonight knowing some ***** called me a "pigheaded ****" on a message board.

I expect you will sleep the same way you do every night.

Beside your inflatable doll. :)


No wonder parts of the left have so many problems organizing ... with this cast of dipshits putting out thousands of message board posts under a "Revolutionary" guise

What organisations are you involved with?

Do they have more than 3 members?

I'm involved with unions with tens of thousands of members, so speak for yourself.


... Where’s a re-education camp when you need one?

Oh dear...

We all don't have the luxury of attending a prestigious university like yourself.

[Guerrilla Manila]

Nag, Nag, *****, Whine .... etc


http://b.imagehost.org/0393/shutup*****9sd.gif

[Guerrilla Manila]

Guess how I spend my free time ?
http://b.imagehost.org/0393/1175770691128.gif

[Marsella]

Wow, are you the editor of this magazine:

http://www.fstdt.com/funnyimages/uploads/403.jpg

Your progressiveness astounds me.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Wow.

When did this thread get so awesome?

[Forward Union]

- I'm not a teenager.

Ok, maybe you're not. Age is irrelivent and it was a passing assumption.


- I do live in Florida presently (but find it innappropriate for you to disclose that as a moderator)

Disclose what? You don't live there right?


- I have been to Chiapas several times and met with the EZLN.

Fine, I've met them to. But that's very different to what you inititally said which was that you were "involved" with them. Which is, as I have pointed out, a rediculously bombastic statement to make.

Now that I've esposed that your original claim is impossible, "Involvement in" has turned into "met". :D


- I could care less that you think I am lying ... and actually prefer it that way.

Well to be honest I just wanted to hear about your time there. But you've been unable to give any vague details, shown a complete lack of understanding of the politics of the region, and to be honest, your maintainance that you've done anything there is just really embarrasing. I don't really care if you'v been there or not.

[Forward Union]

British bloke, who thinks he is a "guerrilla"


You put that in quotation marks, can you point out where I have refered to myself as a guerillia? That was your fantasy, not mine.



because he took a chic "tourist" trip to Chiapas (don't worry, the Starbucks was in a chilled thermos and the Birkenstocks didn't get muddy).


No I went to participate in the 2nd Encuentro, but did volonteer work in Huitepec for some time before, sadly there was no starbucks, a lot of mud, illness and backbreaking labour, but plenty of coffee. I am going back in June to work in Bolon Ajaw which is under direct attack from Oppdic



The fact that you have the nerve to talk shit to someone with vastly more education (qualified to be one of your professors), knowledge on these matters, and similar experience around the world ... is cute in a way ... or shall I use "cheeky".


Well, you've so far demonstraited an abismal understanding of the contemporary politics of Chiapas. To the extent that it's quite depressing.

But out of interest, what did you think of the zapatistas last communique? And your views on la otra campana?

[RedAnarchist]

Quote:
because he took a chic "tourist" trip to Chiapas (don't worry, the Starbucks was in a chilled thermos and the Birkenstocks didn't get muddy).
No I went to participate in the 2nd Encuentro, but did volonteer work in Huitepec for some time before, sadly there was no starbucks, but plenty of coffee.

Why would you want Stabucks shit when you can have Zapatista coffee?:)

[jaffe]

Gotta love guerila Manila.