One of the reasons people won't follow

[Anarcho]

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...ic=733&start=10 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=17&topic=733&start=10)

In that thread, a discussion is going on about the recent HBO special on the 9-11 attacks.

<rant>
I'm an American. For better or worse, it's the lot in life I've got. Some of it sucks, some of it's nice, but I can't change it.

Someone posts an article about a memorial for Palestinian dead in Isreal, or dead revolutionaries in South America, and that's perfectly ok, they were hero's, they should be honored.

But HBO puts together a show to help the people understand more of what happened that day, and to let folks reminisce, people like FOH start waving the bloody cloth. It almost seems like FOH thinks that the US deserved what happened.

You know what? They didn't.

And Palestinians in Jenin didn't deserve it, and Iraqi children don't deserve to starve. You seem to loose perspective, and demonize all those that may not agree with you.

That's scary, for that road leads to totalitarianism, and midnite car rides, and show trials.

For shame, FOH. Regardless of the reasons behind it, it was a tragic thing, and would be so had it happened in Russia, or the UK, or anywhere else. Do try to remember that under the skin of political ideology and nationalism that is burned in from birth that we are all humans.
</rant>

[Thine Stalin]

But noone would care if it happened in russia.
Because Russians aren't americans.

[Angie]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you there, Thine Stalin (for the comment itself, not because you made it). Were it to happen in Russia, it wouldn't have received anywhere NEAR as much airtime. We'd hear a little about it for 3 days or so, then it would disappear, not the endless suffocating weeks of it that we received from America on every form of media that was available.

It's hardly the same thing. Not even close.

[IzmSchism]

however perverted the 9-11 event has been twisted and turned into a media spectacle fraught with images of the WT towers crumbling to the ground and people falling out of buildings, the fact that America is so influential around the world, economically and politically and militarily they are able to do just about anything to shock other countries into bloody campaigns for their own benefit, and only when it comes time that they in fact are the victims do we now as a country wake up to the real problems of the world.

anyways.....I totally agree that for events in the past and even now, or if this terrible tradegy would have happened in another country that it would be a flash in America;s news circles. Although, I will agree with FoH on the mere point that if we are to gain anything out of this, it must be that our struggle is now even more intertwined with the east's.

[Anarcho]

During the Chernobyl incident, the US government offered aid as soon as it was known (the Soviet government triedto cover it up..). It was declined.

In countries all over the world, the US offers assistance when tragedies happen. Earthquakes, floods, drought, Hurricane..... the US almost always makes it a point to offer assistance.

The US had many many things wrong with it, and the corporate world needs to be torn down and started over. The government is no longer in touch with the people.

But there are good things they do as well. However, I find more and more people who will plug their 'ears' and ignore that, in favor of speculative half truths and whistle blowing.

Sad, really.

[CheGuevara]

Yes, it's true, the US does offer assistance to disaster victims worldwide. However, it's not usually very altruistic, it's usually for currying political favor. After all, look at the genocide in Rwanda. 500,000 killed, which could've been stopped, unlike most natural disasters, yet the US did nothing, because Africa, at least that part, isn't worth very much economically.

[Anarcho]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 6:21 am on May 30, 2002
Yes, it's true, the US does offer assistance to disaster victims worldwide. However, it's not usually very altruistic, it's usually for currying political favor. After all, look at the genocide in Rwanda. 500,000 killed, which could've been stopped, unlike most natural disasters, yet the US did nothing, because Africa, at least that part, isn't worth very much economically.

But if the US had gotten directly involved, folks would be saying that they were meddling. It's a hard line to tread. Involvement there would have likely ended up much like the bad parts of the Somalia missions.

Also, there is no such thing, politically, as a selfless act. All things that any government does is for political gain. If you doubt, I would like to see one example where I cannot find political favor gained from an act of any government.

Also : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/docs/961114-dos.htm for a rather detailed press conference on some of the US plans in Africa. Granted, it is several years old, but may shed some light on what the idea was there, and how it has failed since then.

[Fires of History]

Anarcho,

There is a difference between deserving it and provoking it. Did you even look at the cartoon I was commenting on?

I'm unfortunately still an amerikkkan citizen too. I just want to be really, really, crazy, absolutely nuts radical and be the only amerikkkan who sees why this really happened. Not that I blanketly blame all amerikkkans for their ignorance, amerikkkan media has them begging for more.

It's funny to me how even after something as trajic- and pointless- as the WTC attack, amerikkkans still refuse to look beyond their own borders and acknowledge their government's dangerously meddling activities all over the world.

Heh, jeez, not even after 9/11 do amerikkans see, or want to see. It's all Islamic fundamentalism's fault, right? The U$ had nothing to do with this, the U$ is just a benign, innocent being horrifically attacked by jealous and angry fundamentalists. As I've said before, it's time amerikkkans hate their inept leadership instead of the rest of the world for simply reacting to it. And that's all the cartoon was getting at.

I don't even get HBO.

P.S. What do you brew? :)

[Anarcho]

I agree that there are aspects of the American (It's spelled with a c, you guys. Just thought you should know) that are a little out there, but nothing short of genocidal attacks justify a slaughter of WTC scale.

And bin Laden's supposed reason for it, to draw attention to the American presence in Saudi, is foolish. His beef should be with the Saudi government, not the US. It's the Saudi government that allows the US to maintain bases there, in exchange for military equipment.

If an American terrorist had flown a Aeroflot jet into a Moscow highrise in the name of Chechyn freedom, folks would still be screaming bloody murder.

And Osama is not a friend of socialism either.... it's much like the support for Iraq that I see here. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

And I brew (sort of) Hard Cider. Good stuff, and much tastier than beer. I'm going to embark on my first solo batch this summer... wish me luck.