Multiculturalism?

[AlleyKat]

I haven't made a thread yet so I thought perhaps I should start with something I've been thinking about a lot lately, Multiculturalism.

(I am a little afraid however because I feel I'm heavily working within a capitalist/nation state based framework here, I'm staunchly anti-nationalist/patriotism and don't believe in ridiculous immigration control or whatever)

I think multiculturalism is a liberal misnomer and should really be called "Multinationalism". Multiculturalism is essentially the allowance of immigrants to practice whatever culture/language/religion/etc... they originally did in their original pieces of dirt with a line through it. And it is only natural for someone, an immigrant, to settle in a place where they feel compfortable (ala "Birds of a feather flock together"), where they can speak their original language, practice their original customs and so on. Most immigrants do this, although I must admit I highly admire my family who came from Ukraine, denied an offer to live in a Ukrainian/Russian enclave and decided to integrate into Australian society, never speaking Ukrainian again. And we are fed that multiculturalism is such a wonderful thing, we have all this colour and ethnic restaraunts, although I must admit there is a large difference in having an ethnic restaraunt in a town and a town dedicated to the original culture whatever ethnic cuisine came from.

But what "good" do we get out of multiculturalism? I'm not talking about race, I couldn't give a toss what colour you are, infact interracial breeding strengthens the gene pool. But it seems as a result of such a multinationalism, the country becomes kind of a Little Balkans and you get such things as rampant crime from ethnic gangs such as children of Serbian immigrants going around and beating the crap out of children of Albanian parents because the piece of dirt with a line through it their parents lived on for a short amount of time was taken over by some other wankers who are not them and wanted more pieces of dirt and to expand their line. Even though the people in these gangs might be born in Australia/America/Canada/etc... it is because they are human they seek identity and because they've probably never achieved anything in life they take refuge in ridiculous ethnic based thuggery. But it breeds racism, multiculturalism in the UK is a godsend for the BNP because instead of saying "Look, at these asians/blacks/arabs taking our jobs" they can distance themselves from race using the mask of culture and nationality, non-historical causationary social constructs. Multiculturalism/Multinationalism is in essence the medium to Balkanism (I think I might have made that word up though? :lol: ).

Anyway, I have a few questions for the revleft people.

1. What are your thoughts on Multiculturalism?

and

2. How would cultural differences be tackled under anarchism?
(I do realise it would be heavily different without capitalism however, less *rawr* tension and conflict due to the lack of monetary insecurities for example)

[Dimentio]

I do not think "race mixing" is really a political issue, rather a medical issue given the fact that different human populations hold different tolerances for specific substances (lactosis for example).

Multiculturalism is not really about the rights of every culture, but rather the liberal misrepresentation that culture 1. is something static and not something dynamic, and 2. that culture is what kind of food and national celebrations you prefer, and not a set of behaviors associated with the mode of production.

The problem with the left and multiculturalism is that the left is often defending reactionary practices from equally reactionary groups. Then we could get silly situations like leftists calling Islam the "religion of peace".

Rightist: "Islam is barbarian!"

Leftist: "Oh no... it's... uhm... a religion like christianity."

Rightist: "Hah, you Dhimmi!"

Leftists should not apologise for any religion, not even islam. Otherwise, I have nothing else to say.

[Dimentio]

Under anarchism I do not know, but I know that we in N.E.T intends to form a society built around autonomous self-defined communities, where membership is voluntary. But there must be a basic set of human rights which all communities must adhere to.

[Bilan]

I think multiculturalism is a liberal misnomer and should really be called "Multinationalism". Multiculturalism is essentially the allowance of immigrants to practice whatever culture/language/religion/etc... they originally did in their original pieces of dirt with a line through it. And it is only natural for someone, an immigrant, to settle in a place where they feel comfortable (ala "Birds of a feather flock together"), where they can speak their original language, practice their original customs and so on. Most immigrants do this, although I must admit I highly admire my family who came from Ukraine, denied an offer to live in a Ukrainian/Russian enclave and decided to integrate into Australian society, never speaking Ukrainian again. And we are fed that multiculturalism is such a wonderful thing, we have all this colour and ethnic restaraunts, although I must admit there is a large difference in having an ethnic restaraunt in a town and a town dedicated to the original culture whatever ethnic cuisine came from.

The position of liberals on this issue is in the part I just bolded. :lol:



But it seems as a result of such a multinationalism, the country becomes kind of a Little Balkans and you get such things as rampant crime from ethnic gangs such as children of Serbian immigrants going around and beating the crap out of children of Albanian parents because the piece of dirt with a line through it their parents lived on for a short amount of time was taken over by some other wankers who are not them and wanted more pieces of dirt and to expand their line.

The issue lies not within "multiculturalism" but imperialism, and the existence of nation states, furthering from that, its a product of nationalism and hypernationalism.
But 'culture' is part of ones identity, and should not be denied to anyone, nor should it be forced on anyone.




Even though the people in these gangs might be born in Australia/America/Canada/etc... it is because they are human they seek identity and because they've probably never achieved anything in life they take refuge in ridiculous ethnic based thuggery.

The latter part is largely baseless (if not, completely!).

The way an *immigrant* - under the pretext of nation-states - reacts to other *immigrants* and the *host-nations-peoples* is completely related to the nature of the nation state they've immigrated too - i.e. Sudanese youths being attacked by white racists in Melbourne, a Sudanese kid being killed, and the reaction is...?

the issue is not cultural autonomy, but the backward tendencies of all cultures, and patriotism.



1. What are your thoughts on Multiculturalism?

A facade used by liberals to try and hide the real tensions which exist within class societies. The concept of cultural autonomy is good, but not sufficient within class society - as in, it can only be practiced on the surface, in the spotlight, but is not indefinitley appliable because of the existing tensions. Furthermore, the existence of nation states, not culture, is the issue.
Class - Nation States are the problem, not 'culture' or 'multiculturalism'.



2. How would cultural differences be tackled under anarchism?
(I do realise it would be heavily different without capitalism however, less *rawr* tension and conflict due to the lack of monetary insecurities for example)


Provide with an example.
Note this, though, anarchism is a stateless, classless social organization - there are no "nation states", no economic and social hierarchies or classes.

[AlleyKat]

The way an *immigrant* - under the pretext of nation-states - reacts to other *immigrants* and the *host-nations-peoples* is completely related to the nature of the nation state they've immigrated too - i.e. Sudanese youths being attacked by white racists in Melbourne, a Sudanese kid being killed, and the reaction is...?

This is true, however I cannot deny my experiences with ethnic gangs, where I used to work for example was a heavy enclave for Balkan immigrants and the crime there was extremely high. It wasn't because of backwards white racists, rather it's an issue of identity.


the issue is not cultural autonomy, but the backward tendencies of all cultures, and patriotism.

I definately agree.



A facade used by liberals to try and hide the real tensions which exist within class societies. The concept of cultural autonomy is good, but not sufficient within class society - as in, it can only be practiced on the surface, in the spotlight, but is not indefinitley appliable because of the existing tensions. Furthermore, the existence of nation states, not culture, is the issue.
Class - Nation States are the problem, not 'culture' or 'multiculturalism'.


Totally mate, you've really hit the issue on the head here.

[MarxSchmarx]

I wonder whether we are using "culture" as polite way to speak of ethnic groups.

One could argue that students, for example, share more "culturally" with students in other countries than with non-students of their same ethnic group.

A positive outcome of bourgeois liberal "multiculturalism" is that it encourages society to adopt tolerance for those different from ourselves.

Acceptance and good will towards of those of different ethnic groups fosters acceptance and good will towards, for example, the disabled or the unemployed. A corollary of this is that it breaks down dehumanizing, "essentialist" pigeonholing of individuals.

True, the two are not necessarily linked. But it is probably fair to say that societies which insist on everybody following the same religion, speaking the same language, etc... also fail to recognize the importance of individual uniqueness and creativity, much less express compassion and tolerance towards those different from the dominant cultural milieu.

[Bilan]

This is true, however I cannot deny my experiences with ethnic gangs, where I used to work for example was a heavy enclave for Balkan immigrants and the crime there was extremely high. It wasn't because of backwards white racists, rather it's an issue of identity.

Indeed, but I was more placing emphasis on context, rather than "whiteness" as such.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I actually want some thoughts on interculturalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interculturalism) instead. I wrote a course paper on it, and if I have time, I'll release the content on this board. :)

[AlleyKat]

True, the two are not necessarily linked. But it is probably fair to say that societies which insist on everybody following the same religion, speaking the same language, etc... also fail to recognize the importance of individual uniqueness and creativity, much less express compassion and tolerance towards those different from the dominant cultural milieu.

Hmm, but I think there's a difference between forcing someone to speak English over banning them from participating in a specific art form or playing whatever type of music.


I actually want some thoughts on interculturalism instead. I wrote a course paper on it, and if I have time, I'll release the content on this board. :)

"Interculturalism", I think is the liberal idea of what multiculturalism is. But sadly it isn't, rather it is a whole load of different cultures socially barricading themselves in their own enclaves.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ In my paper (and remember this was a course paper, so I couldn't look extremist), the key to interculturalism is the usage of one universal language, among other measures, in "forcing" the different cultures to interact with one another and not isolate themselves in cultural "ghettos."

Quebec, I believe, was the first region to implement this.

[AlleyKat]

I'd love to read your paper sometime, obviously sociology interests me. :)



Quebec, I believe, was the first region to implement this.


It might sound silly but Quebec bothers me greatly, there's just something about a province who, even though most can speak English, refuse to do so because of some crock history. Sometimes I don't think I would mind big signs in Montreal saying "You're Canadians, Speak English"

[Bilan]

That reminds me of the racist, "You're in Australia, Speak English" bullshit put out by the far right.

[AlleyKat]

That reminds me of the racist, "You're in Australia, Speak English" bullshit put out by the far right.


Hmm, but that's just their outlet for hatred. I just think there should be a common unity amongst people, i.e. Language. An international auxiliary language is ideal I believe.