why have I been labeled?

[Field Marshal]

Why have I been labeled a capitalist? This came as a shock to me. Now I can understand one fo the problems with past communist revolutions. It's because people were persecuted or re/supressed because of their views.

How are we to create a society of equality and peace when people are going to be judged by one person (ie. dictator)????Malte????

[Nateddi]

I didn't label you as anything, I don't read your posts ;).

So who are you? A national socialist?

[Anarcho]

For what it's worth, I got the same lable, apparently because some folks were able to make statements about me, behind my back, with no chance of confronting them or learning the reasoning behind what they had said.

Equality is a lie, same as it ever was.

However, I still read the other forums (though I can't post) in hopes of learning something here despite the walls in my way.

[Field Marshal]

Nateddi, I try to read all the posts that you make. There should be an option to see every post that a user has made, it's on other forums I have seen. I emailed you about Communism once, something about posters/cartoons. I think if it wasn't for you I wouldn't even know about this forum.

I am only beginning to understand Socialism, most are my views toward issues is balanced. My history teacher told me once that I was very skewed. When I talk about Socialism and get into arguements, I usually get backed into a corner. But then I remind my opponents that I am not defending/fighting for a perfect system, but rather a more humane system.

Over this year, I have learned so much about Socialism that I have even convinced my tutor to "convert" and read more about it. I have no idea why I have been put into this catagory.

By the way, Nateddi, I see you, Communist (day of defeat forums), and potyondi (dod forum) as the ones who hold the greatest amount of knowledge of the subject. I do have some questions that are in depth about communism and are not like the on-the-surface questions that are asked on this board. I'll email you sometime.

A national socialist? did you get that from my Hitler quote or my name? Field Marshal, after Erwin Rommel, he too was a socialist. The quotation from Hitler, in my opinion, is a reminder that what he tried to do was create his idealogical world. He failed to do so.
If we are to create our idealogical world, then we can not afford any mistakes. Because just like those who have tried in the past to create the idealogical communist world, we will be despised, hated, and condemned forever. And worst of all, we are the good guys...

[Nateddi]

Hmm, that was you who emailed me about Potyondi's cartoons???

I believe many people on this forum are ignorant, by the fact that they jump to conclusions. I now became one of them. I knew the name Field Marshal sounded familiar, I just wasn't sure.

Anyway, if you want to see Communist, as well as other communists and (former) DoD History forum members debate against Neo-Nazi racists, come to http://www.thelyceum.org. Communist's name is Bolshevik, Sulla is there, MF_Doom, Sinclair, and a few others.

Yes, Field Marshal is no nazi, we should really watch it before we lock people up into this forum.

Really my bad.

(Edited by Nateddi at 4:07 am on May 25, 2002)

[BOZG]

I haven't read any of your posts but I heard that you were banned so I just took it that you were a nazi or something. The Hitler quote doesn't help even if you didn't mean it in the sense of supporting him.

You can all yourself a socialist but it doesn't mean you are one. The Nazi party's full name was the "National Socialist Party". Would you call nazi's socialists?

[Edelweiss]

Rommel a socialist? Are you kidding? He was a Nazi!
You are coming here with a Nazi name and a Nazi sig and you are woundering why yiu have been restricted to SvsC, you are pretty confused!

[Astrofro]

You base it simply on that criteria Malte? In any of his posts has he shown Nazi sentiments? His quote from Hitler states the truth about him. It doesnt support his beliefs or anything similar to them. If someone quotes Stalin who was worse to HIS OWN PEOPLE than Hitler to his "Aryans" This is just jumping to conclusions...

[Thine Stalin]

Take note most of the stalinists have been restricted to here..

[PaulDavidHewson]

Rommel may have been a nazi, but what I've learned from him he is not your typical nazi.

He was actually honorable and tried to fight an honorable war.

I think the only reason he was a nazi was because it was mandatory if you want to be in the position he is, but what I've learned of him he was one of the nicest nazi's around.

If I'm wrong please tell me, this is just something I've learned in history class.

[Field Marshal]

It was my mistake to label Rommel as a socialist. He wasn't a political person, but his idealogy was based on socialism and a classless society.

He wasn't involved in any war crimes. For god sakes, he was forced to commit suicide because he was a part of a conspiracy plan to assasinate Hitler. He disregarded Hitler's orders to kill the captured jewish brigade at Tobruk. What else do you want to know about the man he was?

The only reason he was fond of Hitler and the Nazi party (at the start of the war) was because they promised to restore Germany to it's rightful position as a respected power. He was probably the most prominant Nazi supporter around. But Rommel fought for Germany, not Hitler.

You know Malte, I have read a countless number of literary works on the Third Reich and World War 2, and just because Hitler did horrible things, doesn't mean he was (always) a moron.

[Field Marshal]

I'll take off the Hitler quote if it is bothering or offending any of you. I just think that we shouldn't have these little purges of users.

I propose that you should only ban a person (from selected forums) if he has abused his privelidge in the forum.

[Reuben]

Whether Rommel was a Nazi, and even whether his main agenda was Nazism, is irrelevant. He chose to militarily support a genocidal war machine. He chose, in spite of what was being done, to advance the goals of the German state, which he knew was Nazi. He knew that German troops would be followed by the Einsatzgruppen who would sytematically murder jews and communists i the territory the german Army conquered.

So, regardless of his beliefs, he was a proponent of Nazism and genocide

[PaulDavidHewson]

Yes, the Einsatzgruppen argument is a good one.
Forgot about them for a sec.

Yes, I agree. Rommel must have known about this, but still we could only wish that more Nazi's were like him during the war.

[yuriandropov]

what?? rommel was one of the (if not the only) good guys for the nazis. the main reasons he fell out with hitler is that he refused to be a jew killer, and he thought germany should surrendor in WWII to save lives.
as someone who did serve in the military for a short while, i can say whatever your senior officer tells you, you do it! rommel was a military man, not a political man. he fought for germany because that is the way many germans thought back then. if your party tells you to do something, you must do it, because the party is always right. even with this attitude, rommel still stood up to hitler and it cost him his life!
just because he was associated with the nazis, he will not be remembered for being the great military strategist he was. he was not a nazi in ideology, only in name.

[man in the red suit]

rommel was a nazi, nazis are fascist, fascism is a more or less, fucked up system of rascist socialism. It is socialism in the sense that they believe in equality as well. Fascism is completely hypocritical though. The fascist theory blames their problems on one group of people, in the nazis' case, the jews. No, fascism is SUPPOSEDLY socialist but there is too much hypocracy and rascism involved for this to be true.

[yuriandropov]

fascism is not socialism. not in any way, it is the opposite! fascism was created to stop the lower classes taking power. as lenin says, it is 'capitalism in decay'. you are thinking of national socialism. national socialism is not fascism. hitlers government was not national socialist, it was fascist. a national socialist government would be economically left wing (socialist) but politically right wing (nationalist).
and rommel was not a nazi. he did not believe in nazi ideology. he was a military man. very few military men beleive in politics.

[man in the red suit]

i am thinking of fascism not national socialism.
and yes, rommel was a nazi, i never said he believed in the nazi ideology but he was a nazi who worked for hitler. I have studied this for half my life, i thik i would know.

[yuriandropov]

explain to me how fascism is in the least bit socialist?

as i have said. rommel was a military man, he did what he was told. he was a patriotic german who fought for his country. do you think every red army man is communist? or every US GI is a die hard capitalist? no, or course not. correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe Red Celtic served in the US navy? he is not a capitalist, is he?
if rommel was a die-hard nazi, how come he tried to kill hitler?

[man in the red suit]

i am not saying fascism is socialist I agree with you, it is not the least bit. All I am saying is that it is classified as socialism.

[man in the red suit]

oh please, I very much doubt that Rommel tried to kill Hitler.

[Thine Stalin]

From what I learned from the nazi's from the thelyceum, thephora, freedomforums, hellfire, whatever, Rommel in fact intended to overthrow hitler and that if he hadn't died, he would've considering he had massive support.

[Field Marshal]

jesus christ. I thought this thread was about me. :( oh well.

First of all, Rommel didn't believe in a hierarchy (at least within the military). That is how he won the respect of his soldiers and his POWs. He lowered the rations of his troops to feed the POWs. Isn't that an element of socialism? Giving enough for everyone? I am sure the man in the read suit would have known that since he has studied this for half his life.

yuriandropov, Rommel didn't (always) listen to his superior officers.

Another thing, even though Rommel was Hitler's "favorite General," Rommel was left in the dark about a lot of things. He didn't know anything about what was going back home. He was in North Africa for so long. He didnt' know about the Atlantic Wall plan, or Operation Barborossa (invasion of Russia).

Rueben, Rommel refused to fight with any SS units in his army. And I dont' think there were any war crimes in Africa. The Italians were in charge of almost everything there. In fact, the North Africa campaign wasn't even part of Hitler's plans. It was only because his Italians allies needed help to take some territory.

In conclusion, Rommel was not a "nazi." He wasn't a part of any war crimes, nor did he know of any at the time. He was a socialist natured man.

Give me back my forum privlidges! please...

[Nateddi]

Quote: from Field Marshal on 3:57 am on May 28, 2002
Give me back my forum privlidges! please...

Definately Malte,

I knew Field in DOD history forums, he isn't a nazi, as a matter of fact his interest in communism drew him over to this forum.

[Guest]

Quote: from Field Marshal on 3:57 am on May 28, 2002


Rueben, Rommel refused to fight with any SS units in his army. And I dont' think there were any war crimes in Africa.


Actually war crimes were committed in Africa. In lybia, jews were rounded up and extradited to concentration camps.

If I was a socialist under a Nazi government. On the basis of their pre-war behaviour alone I would not be involve at such a high level in my countries government and military establishment.

On the basis of their pre-war behaviour alone, not even taking into account the crimes which you say Rommel didnt know about, I would have founded it impossible as a socialist, to be a general for a country that was killing jews in the Streets, whose leader was threaning 'the destruction of the jewish race', who wanted to make 'lebensraum' out of the soviet union.

Would you consider serving as a GENERAL in the Israeli army at the moment?

I wouldnt.

[Anarcho]

Quote: from Nateddi on 4:03 am on May 28, 2002

Quote: from Field Marshal on 3:57 am on May 28, 2002
Give me back my forum privlidges! please...

Definately Malte,

I knew Field in DOD history forums, he isn't a nazi, as a matter of fact his interest in communism drew him over to this forum.


<hopeless cause>

If an interest in communism/socialism is enough of a reason to get ones privileges back, I'd just like to put my name down on that list. thanks.

</hopeless cause>

[Reuben]

sorry, that guest was me. forgot to sign in

[Edelweiss]

As always, I have to agree Reuben. There is nothing like a "good Nazi".

[Field Marshal]

Then tell me why everyone was/is fond of Erwin Rommel? Winston Churchill commended him for being a(can't remember exact words) man of high honor. He won the respect of his soldiers and his enemies through honor. He wasn't a part of the Nazi Government, he was in Africa the whole time.

How can you not understand that he was a supporter of Germany, not evil that Nazism was pursuing.

Rueban, I have with me 5 books about the Holocaust, none of which speak of a concentration camp in Northern Africa. I want you to show me something that something like this happend. Maybe I should look harder but there is nothing on the maps that i have seen.

PS. Let Anarcho back into the other forums too. One of the failures of past communist governments was the practice of ridding dissent of ANY kind. Anarcho and I are innocent, and yet some of you feel that we should remain incarcerated in this one forum. Intolerance is a theme in past failed communist governments, don't let it cloud your thoughts.

[Field Marshal]

Even Nateddi is disagreeing with your judgement on me. Are you going to constrain him as you have done to Anarcho and I, for our beliefs?

I am a supporter of socialism, but because I believe that Erwin Rommel was not a bad person, I am to be condemned and banned from the other forums? That is social injustice Malte.

[Reuben]

I didnt say that there wwas a concentration camp in North Africa. I said that in Lybia jews were transported to the concentration.

However this is not the main point I wanted you to answer.

My main points were the following:

The behaviour of the Nazi government prior to the war, not even taking into account the crimes which you say Rommel didnt know about, were such that any real sociialist should have had a moral objection to serving as an army general for this government. Was it possible to be a true socialist, to be a general for a country that was killing jews in the Streets, whose leader was threaning 'the destruction of the jewish race', who wanted to make 'lebensraum' out of the soviet union.

Given the policy of the pre-war Nazi government towards jews and other minorities, what did Rommel think the effect would be of expanding militarily the Nazi sphere of influence.


Would you consider serving as a GENERAL in the Israeli army at the moment?

I wouldnt.

[lenin]

rommel was in the military before hitler got into power. and if he would of left the military, with his high rank, he would surely of been killed by hitler. (hitler almost had rommel killed when he told hitler the war was unwinable in 1945!).

[Field Marshal]

Rueban you should go back and read my posts. I took back the label on Rommel being a socialist. I revised my words stating that he has socialistic belief system. Keep in mind he was not very political.

Also keep in mind that Prior to the war, there were no concentration camps. All the jews (approximately 400,000) in Germany were sent out with any means of transport. Gobbels used this as propoganda to state that the "house cleaning" operation was a success. Nazism prior to the war had no immediate intentions to do what they ended up doing.

Rommel was not in touch with the German state. His weekly contact was with his wife, and those letters (which I have read) are mostly about personal things between them and battle reports.

He was a general (unknowingly) fighting for one of the most evil men in the history of man. He was fed bullshit propoganda to tell him how everything is fine in Germany and the Empire will last 1,000 years. That's why it took so long for Rommel to realize why he should join the plan to kill Hitler.

Hitler was the cause of Rommel's decision to kill him. Rommel lost 1,000s of men because he obeyed (some of) Hitler's orders to attack well defended areas, or not to retreat, or never surrender. Rommel joined the Conspiracy to protect his soldiers from further pointless deaths. He stopped obeying Hitler for a long time and soon after he joined the conspiracy, Hitler ordered Rommel's death.

[Field Marshal]

He didn't know Rueban, just like the Millions of Germans who didn't know. Anyone who did know about what was going on behind the curtains was sent with the rest of the innocents to their deaths.

Let me and Anarcho back in (read my other post about this)

[Menshevik]

Rommel wasnt all that bad. He was in fact part of the plot to assassinate Hitler. Rommel was probably the most brilliant military strategist of WWII, but he was definitely fighting for the wrong cause. He was never a Nazi part supporter and Hitler allowed him to keep his own political convictions because he was such an amazing commander. Towards the end of the war I think he really realized for the first time what a mistake he had made, and after being wounded in a RAF bombing raid, he took his own life as a broken man.

[Moskitto]

I don't see how "Field Marshall" was connected with Rummel except by the Hitler quote because Field Marshall is a military rank not anything relating to Rummel himself.

[Field Marshal]

Thank you!

I want to see the evidence against my conviction as a right wing nazi. I want everyone to see, and I want to have the people, not just Malte, decide on my fate.

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from Field Marshal on 2:12 am on May 30, 2002
He didn't know Rueban, just like the Millions of Germans who didn't know. Anyone who did know about what was going on behind the curtains was sent with the rest of the innocents to their deaths.

Let me and Anarcho back in (read my other post about this)


That's a fairytale! You are sounding just like my grandma! All Germans recognized that all the Jews disappeared and never came back. Hitler openly preached the elimination of the Jews. The truth is most Germans didn't want to know.

[Menshevik]

I do think the name "field marshal" carries some pretty negative qualities along with it. Perhaps a change in name is in call for.

[Field Marshal]

Holy shit Malte, didn't you read about my other post.

there was an enormous propoganda tool called the house-cleaning operation. Everyone knew the Jews were sent out of Germany! It was publicized everywhere.

I hope you realize that Germany's press was ridiculously censored. The chances of an average German citizen to know about the camps is very unlikely. In fact, one of the reasons that the camps were opened was because ALMOST ALL of the countires that the jews were exported to were turned back. In the UNITED STATES ALONE, articles about the camps were either put far back in the newspaper or not showed at all. There were so many anti-semetic (I hate that word) people in power that they were able to censor the media. Roosevelt said "We can't fight just because of them (jews)." Roosevelt was a great president, but he, as well as hudreds of others, could have prevented what Hitler was doing. They all knew what was going on.

I highly doubt that you are in a position to tell the truth. You abdicated me with no truth whatsoever, only suspicion. Who are you to speak on behalf of all the Germans in WW2? And who are you to judge me!?

Damnit Malte, I have studied aspects of World War 2 for almost 2 years now, I am specializing in Germany, I can argue with you forever. I don't want to though and I am starting to lose my patients with you.

I signed up for this board to discuss not about World War 2, but of Communism and Capitalism and gain leftist perspectives on issues.

I will ask you once again, give me and Anarcho our privledges back.

[Field Marshal]

Thanks Malte, I hope you did the same for Anarcho though.