the euro

[yuriandropov]

i have been in britain almost 3 weeks now and i have closely monitored the situation regarding the euro in britain. comrades, when the referendum comes around about the euro, i urge you to reject it! i have spoken with some british marxists and they say 'a vote for the euro is a vote for a europan super-state and, as internationalists, we are all for that'. this is non-sense comrades. a vote for the euro is not a vote for internationalism, it is a vote for capitalism. the euro will only benefit the big corperations, not the working class. a vote for the pound is not a vote for nationalism though, it is a rejection of capitalist expansion.
british comrades, vote no to the euro, and european capitalist and imperialist expansion!

[Edelweiss]

Well, from a practical view I really enjoy that I can pay with the same currency in so many different European countries. It's important for the European identity. And how can capitalism expand to where it already is? But I guess you are right, it's mostly a benefit for the big corporations.

[Hattori Hanzo]

All I know is that the sooner there is a European superstate the better it will be for us Leftists over in the U$A

[Nateddi]

explain please

[Unknown]

I dont like the euro beacuse it is for the benefit of large corporations but i can imagine it to quite handy.....

There must be somthing going with the euro the introduced it to get rid of an inconvinece???? stairs are an inconvinece but the dont get esculators every were busy main roads are an inconvinece every thing is an inconvinece but they dont do any thing about them???

Something Fishy I Smell!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anarcho]

Out of curiousity, how does a currency only benefit one class of people/society? I'm honestly confuzzled by this one.

[yuriandropov]

well, how is the euro going to benefit the british working class? most probobly have never even been to europe so why do they need the currency? the euro will only benefit huge corperations because it will be easier to do business with the same currency. they are trying to turn europe into another USA. i can see how the euro may benefit a tourist slightly, but the real benefit is with the corperations.

[guerrillaradio]

Undecided on this one...

On the one hand, it's one step closer to breaking down borders, but it's also handing power over to Brussels. however, the majority of eurosceptic arguments relate to nationalism and xenophobia, so I refuse to identify with Iain Duncan "fascist" Smith...

[BOZG]

The Euro is good on a practical level but it is just giving more and more power to the EU than to the ordinary people.

[komsomol]

I dont think the Euro would expand the Corporations at all, its allready globalized! And they can easilly exchange currencies anyhow. I believe that the Euro would be a good convenience and lead to greater cultural integration and a step forward from the Nationalist isolation we experience, its not good enough now, look at the English soccer hooligans, bloody dumb Nazi scum. Not all of them are hooligans though as I dont want to offend.

[yuriandropov]

that is a poor attitude! that is like saying, western europe is already capitalist so whats the point in socialism, lets just keep capitalism.
breaking down european borders is only a good thing for the coperations. do you really think a european super-state could survive? europeans have been killing each other for 3000 years!
also, the bigger and more powerful the state, the harder it would be to break down. you would have a situation where there would be 2 capitaist superpowers! this would give US and EU a free reign on global policis as not even a reformed USSR could compete with two world powers of such size!
vote no to the euro and vote no to capitalism. no european boundris will not make life better for the prolaterat, explain how it possibly could? an end to exploitation WILL make life better for the prolaterat. voting for the euro is like giving the coperations a free reign for exploitation.

[yuriandropov]

gurillaradio, i realise the nazis will try to hijack the euro debate and turn it into a 'race war' or something, but sometimes, the enemy of your enemy is your friend.
i don't know what its like in other countries, but in russia, the extreme left and extreme right often work together on issues that concern capitalism. there is a group called the national bolsheviks who co-ordinate rallies against capitalism. they mix extreme right and left politics together and encourage communists and anti-capitalist nazis to there rallies. i'm not saying support nazi's, what i'm saying is, anyone who can help bring about the downfall of capitalism, is a potential ally (only on very few issues though).

[Edelweiss]

I would rather beat the hell out of a Nazi than marching with him on a rally!

[yuriandropov]

malte, maybe your responce is the reason why capitalism is so strong in western europe. do you live in east or west germany?

[Edelweiss]

West Germany. Yes yuri, we all should work with Nazis to reach a socialist society! What a great idea! Maybe we could hunt some blacks, Jews or punks with them before rallying!

[Anonymous]

Euro sucks!!! im european and i now wat I say believe me the euro is an hand full of nothing! Why do we need the Euro? to be a big comunity? no to be all the same to spare the money of the richest guys and companys and take it from the poor a lot of people (capitalists pigs) made (and are still making) big money with the conversions of the old coin to the new! with the rise of euro there will be another great victory for capitalism its just another way of robimg the people!!! its disgusting!!!!!

[Anonymous]

EURO- just another way of capitalism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[yuriandropov]

well said the anarchist!

malte, the more people we can get to destroy capitalism the better. capitalism, in my opinion, causes most racism. capitalism must be stopped before racism. i'm not saying join the nazis or beat up blacks and jews, just that if we can use nazis to destroy capitalism, then we should.
i asked if you were from east or west because t appears to me east and west have very different ideas of communsim. we are more pro-working class and you are more anti-facist. we see capitalism as the main problem where as you seem to see racism as a bigger problem.
in order for socialism to prevail, you must appeal to the working class. the working class does not care about equal rights for blacks, jews or women (i'm just telling it like it is not my personal view), it cares for more equality of the working class. once that is sorted, the race issue will sort itself out.
remember, communism is populist. you must appeal to the working class moajority, not your own utopian ideals.

[Edelweiss]

The problem is that the working class in western countries isn't what it was when Marx wrote his communist manifesto. Actually the working class has become pretty bourgois, at least in their lifestyle and wealth. Although a large and growing amount of people is still poor and fucked by capitalism there are no exploited masses, at least no masses who feel exploited. In western countries there IS a huge middle class. Marx was wrong with his prediction of the soon dissolving middle class, actually it has become much bigger. Fabric workers as they existed at Marx's times are hardly existing in western countries. As much as the wealth is growing in western countries as much the exploination of the 3rd world increases. Things have become more complex and we need other solutions than just appealing to the working class. Anti-capitalist work is important, but anti-fascist work too. Anti-fascist action is our moral duty in a capitalist society, if we work together with the fascist we have already lost our fight.

[Guest]

as a currency collector and anticapitalist, i think the euro sucks

[James]

This is from the ycl website, its not about the euro, more about the EU - i think that its relevent...


PUBLIC MEETING

September 20, Friends Meeting House, London.

Speakers: Tony Benn, Antony Coughlan Nattional Platform (Ireland) Morning Star Editor John Haylett, Green MEP Carolyne Lucas, Sunday Telegraph columnist Christopher Booker, Chair Lord Stoddard

Basic facts on the Nice Treaty:

a.. The treaty centralises control to the major EU powers Germany, France, Britain and Italy.
b.. It divides the EU into first-class and second-class members.
c.. It centralises more power to Brussels by abolishing the national veto in 30 areas.
d.. It militarises the EU by providing for what is effectively an EU army, the 60,000-man "Rapid Reaction Force," in the EU treaties for the first time.
e.. It lays the basis for a single EU constitution by 2004.
f.. It is NOT necessary for the Nice Treaty to be ratified for the EU to expand and absorb other countries as Brussels has claimed.
g.. The Nice Treaty must be ratified by all member states but Ireland rejected the treaty in a poll on June 7, legally the treaty must now fall. However, EU leaders ignored the result.
h.. Brussels is insisting that ratification of the Nice must go ahead despite the Irish vote.
i.. One of the first acts of the new British government was to move to ratify the Nice Treaty despite the fact that it was never raised as an election issue.

The Nice Treaty will remove the democratic rights of this country to decide what wars it fights in, what economic policies to have or whether to take part in international treaties such as the General Agreement on Trade and Services (GATS) which hands over public services to the control of large transnational corporations.

OTHER SIDE

What they said after the Irish rejection of Nice:

"The enlargement process will not be slowed down or stopped . . The Irish people will have to decide in a new referendum." German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder.


"We trust the Irish Government will make every effort to secure ratification within the agreed time frame." - Swedish Prime Minister Goeran Persson.



'Are we all clear that we want to build something that can aspire to be a world power? In other words, not just a trading bloc but a political entity. Do we realise that our nation states, taken individually, would find it far more difficult to assert their existence and their identity ln the world stage?' Commission President Romano Prodi.



'The last step will then be the completion of integration in a European Federation, such a group of States could conclude a new European framework treaty, the nucleus of a constitution of the Federation. On the basis of this treaty, the Federation would develop its own institutions, establish a government which, within the EU, should speak with one voice - Joschka Fischer, Geman Foreign Minister.



If the Nice Treaty is ratified, national governments will be reduced to provincial administrations of the German-dominated EU empire. The Nice Treaty is the necessary legal path to allowing Germany and France to hijack the EU for their own purposes. Facilitating EU enlargement is just their excuse to grab more powers from national governments

[Thine Stalin]

The euro is a stupid idea.

It'll set the socialist movement back, and mess up your capitalist system too.

In some countries the euro will be worth more than in others, this'll lead more people to buy stuff in that country, making the euro worth even more there. Sooner or later a few nations are going to just be so far into debt trying to make the euro worth more in their country.

The euro is a poor idea for everyone.

[Edelweiss]

What I really like about the Euro is that the backside of the coins is different in every Euro country. I already got coins of nearly all Euro countries in my wallet and I didn't have left Germany since the initiation of the Euro. It's pretty fascinating how fast the coins are circulating in Europe.

[Edelweiss]

What I fucking hate about the Euro is that the greedy capitalists are using it to raise the prices! Everything has become more expensive! Sometimes they just have converted Deutschmarks to Euro 1:1! (1 DEM = 0,50 Euro)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Vote euro, its a good thing!!! I love democracy! Go ahead, release your capitalist tendencies, and take your rightful place by the USA's side! Together we will establish true order to the world!!!

[Moskitto]

I support the Euro and the EU, but not for the same reasons mentioned by Capitalist Imperial.

1. When Europe's and UK's economies become inline, these horror stories about "inappropriate interest rates" won't come about because when there's a recession in Europe, there will be one in Britain as well.

2. I don't like having to look at my dictator (the Queen) everytime I go and obtain something I need.

3. What's this bollox talk about loosing our "national identity"? France has a much stronger national identity than we do and they've joined the Euro. If our national identity is based on some coins then, is it really that strong?

4. We do quite a lot of trade with Europe, the thing is, leaving the EU would allow Germany to stop accepting our goods (no offense to any Germans but that would probably happen.) Also currently we can close down abatoirs who deliver spinal columns to meat processing plants. If there wasn't an EU we wouldn't be able to.

5. I actually find the concept of "Britishness" sickening. I'm English. That means I'm a drunken football hooligan who's ace at urban warfare and smashing up shops. Guess what. I'd rather be that that "British." Britishness seems to have the following ideas attached to it.

5a. "We have nothing in common with Europe, We should be with America, we have more in common." Oh yes, we have nothing in common with Europe. Yeah that's right, we're better. Oh yeah the Americans came from Britain. Sound like this stupid Anglo-Saxon superiority. Germany did that, but Germany is an evil country trying to take over Britain. Stupid hypocracy.

5b "We're the most powerful nation in the world." Er yeah, let's go and tell America to piss off. Yeah, oh dear, here comes the missiles, I'll see you if I survive the fallout.

5c "Britain is the only country without a national dress." Yeah, that might be because Britain invented the national dress as something that foreigners have. Stereotypes again "The only place where French people where this is Britain."

Britishness=Racism

[RGacky3]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:48 pm on May 24, 2002
Vote euro, its a good thing!!! I love democracy! Go ahead, release your capitalist tendencies, and take your rightful place by the USA's side! Together we will establish true order to the world!!!


YOU IMPERIALIST BASTERD, DIE. THATS WHAT THE U$ WANTS TO DO TAKE OVER THE WORLD, BUT THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN UNITE COMRADS

[Needssomeconvincing]

I believe the euro is a good thing. I don't agree with firms using it as an excuse to jack up prices (E25 for a CD!)
I like the euro for two reasons
1. It looks like pirate money!
2. Its really useful on holidays. The euro promotes price harmony. I 'm sick of coming back from my holidays feeling really poor because £1 won't buy as much as 1000 pesetas. From a practical point of view the euro is an excellent idea and one that should be supported regardless of political views.