Spanish Civil War

[victim77]

I just finished reading Homage to Catalonia by Orwell but I still am wondering who won and what happend after he left Spain.

[Partisano]

The fascists won.....

[BobKKKindle$]

The Fascists were able to emerge victorious in 1939. This was primarily due to the strategy adopted by the Stalinist faction; in the later stages of the war they [the sections of the GPU which had been sent to Spain to supervise the war effort and the political factions which supported the anti-fascist struggle] began to imprison the leaders of the other political factions as part of an attempt to gain hegemonic control of the Republican areas, and so the anti-fascist forces were no longer able to present a coherent front to the fascists, and so the fascists were, as a result of support from other fascist states, able to over-run the areas which had been controlled by the republican government. Stalin is to blame for the defeat of the revolution in Spain.

His actions were an expression of the interests of the Soviet bureaucracy. If Spain had been able to become an independent revolutionary state, the Soviet Union's role as the controlling center of the Communist parties in countries where the proletariat had not taken power may have been challenged, and the Soviet government would also have experienced difficulty in developing alliances or closer ties with the fascist states of Europe, and so it was in Stalin's interests that the social revolution in Spain be halted, even when this resulted in the victory of the Fascists.

The Stalinist faction consistently tried to separate the revolution from the war effort, for example, by forcing the Anarchist militias to become part of the regular army, thus accepting the command of the republican state, whereas the Trotskyists argued that the war could only be run if the proletariat seized state power. The Anarchists were unwilling to create a new workers state, and actually accepted several ministerial posts in the government towards the end of the war.

Trotsky's writings on this subject may be of use: http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1937/xx/spain01.htm

[Os Cangaceiros]

Stalin is to blame for the defeat of the revolution in Spain.

I think he is largely to blame as well, but another big factor in the Nationalist victory was simply the fact that the Nationalists had better trained soldiers and a far, FAR better airforce composed of German planes that dominated the Soviet produced Republican airforce. Plus, as you alluded to, a lot of the soldiers were caught in a kind of flux; they weren't complete professional soldiers like many in the ranks of the Nationalists, but they weren't fighting a guerilla war against the fascists either, which would have been extremely effective, as Franco wouldn't have been able to constantly hold towns he captured from a well organized resistance, while fighting the Republican Army at the same time.

[Sickle of Justice]

although, as i understand it, many towns in the north were held by various left groups (non stalinists) for quite awhile after the fascist victory... is this true? i read it somewhere, i don't really know where.... i think it had something to do with scritti politti...

[mykittyhasaboner]

although, as i understand it, many towns in the north were held by various left groups (non stalinists) for quite awhile after the fascist victory... is this true? i read it somewhere, i don't really know where.... i think it had something to do with scritti politti... this is true, the POUM, CNT/FAI and other militias occupied much of catalonia and aragon, but were unfortnuately integrated into the Popular Army, and the Stalinists basicly killed anyone who opposed. Stalin is of course to blame for the spanish civil war, and dont forget his cooperation with Nazi Germany with the invasion of poland/and if it wasnt for stalin the soviet union wouldnt have turned into a state capitalist country and might still be around. i agree stalin is a dick.

edit: sorry i noticed you said "left groups occupied the north AFTER the fascist victory", i dont know of this, sorry my bad.

[Os Cangaceiros]

What amazed me is that at least one high ranking Nazi (I believe it may have been Goering) was engaged in arms deals with the Republicans, while some Soviet officials were engaged in deals with the Nationalists, through Greece.

It seems that both sides simply viewed Spain as a good testing grounds for their weapons. One thing is for certain: Stalin didn't aid Spain out of the goodness of his heart. I suspect that if Spain didn't have any money, Stalin wouldn't sell it the steam off his piss.

[Bilan]

The Fascists won.
Spain descended into Fascism.

As for those who are blaming it solely on Stalin, you're being dishonest. Undoubtably, Stalin, and the USSR, played an important part in the betrayal of the revolution (Oh my god) in Spain.
But the revolution was also betrayed by those in the CNT, too. And by the "communists", and the "socialists" who did not fight, but tried to administer the revolution, (or more like, the Civil War, and the restoration of Republican order for the latter).

Those who usurped power over the workers betrayed it, and led to the defeat of the revolution.

[Sam_b]

I think he is largely to blame as well, but another big factor in the Nationalist victory was simply the fact that the Nationalists had better trained soldiers and a far, FAR better airforce composed of German planes that dominated the Soviet produced Republican airforce. Plus, as you alluded to, a lot of the soldiers were caught in a kind of flux; they weren't complete professional soldiers like many in the ranks of the Nationalists, but they weren't fighting a guerilla war against the fascists either, which would have been extremely effective, as Franco wouldn't have been able to constantly hold towns he captured from a well organized resistance, while fighting the Republican Army at the same time.

Great post comrade.

[Fedorov]

Lets not get carried away with blame Stalin for everything. Yes there was unneeded political intrigue and such which took the focus from the war but theres also the military aspect to it. Firstly, the Republican army was essentially a militia, especially in the early stages that really mattered in addition to being pretty fractured so Stalin's control of power can be seen as a worthwhile attempt to unify the Republicans. Even though lots of Soviet aid came in much more came to Franco. In fact, even American studebakers were used by Franco. So all in all Franco had a professional army with the german air force and several Italian divisions as well as France and Britain both being incredibly passive. There are many different aspect that led to the downfall but the power struggle wasn't the greatest. Even as an Anarchist I back a good amount of what Stalin did in the context of the time period.

*I highly recommend Antony Bevor's "Spanish Civil War" if you want a good read on it that.

[Magdalen]

At least Stalin assisted the Republic in some form.

Other bourgeois "democracies" in Europe were perfectly happy to allow a fascist coup to succeed in overthrowing a mildly socialist state in their own backyard. Britain's ambassador to Spain at the time, Sir Henry Chilton, was an open supporter of the fascists, and he had the tacit support of the British government. Franco was also allowed to set up a signals base in Gibraltar.

The United States government was also a tacit supporter of Franco. Henry Ford, who was one of the key beneficiaries of Roosevelt's New Deal, provided the Fascists with trucks and armoured cars. Indeed, soon after the end of the war, a senior member of the Franco government remarked that, "without American petroleum and American trucks, and American credit, we could never have won the Civil War."

Although am not a great fan of Orwell, I very much enjoyed reading Homage To Catalonia, and have reread it several times since. Another good book I would recommend is Anthony Beevor's "The Battle for Spain". Although it is not written from a socialist point of view, it documents the events of war very accurately, and devotes many pages to the role of western states in backing Franco.