banning members

[yuriandropov]

if i am to be restricted to this forum for 'anti-semitism', dan majerele has to be also restricted for pro-bourgeois capitalism and el che MUST be restricted (if not banned completely) for anti-leninism.

[El Che]

lol, are you for real?

[yuriandropov]

what does 'lol' mean? of course i am for real! you are a disgrace to communism. i might expect anti-leninism from a capitalist, but never someon claiming to be a communist!
why don't you come to ulyanovsk and see how far your anti-leninism gets you. even russian people with no political identidy at all went crazy when the capitalist scum suggested burying lenins body! even putin, an economic rightist! then they had to get out of it by saying 'its for the benefit of lenin, he should rest in peace'.
unbelevable how someone can call themselves leftist, and dismiss leninism as 'madness'. disgraceful!

[El Che]

Ok yuri... I see that you are coming from a different backround and everything... and I respect that. Your an adult and everything and I dont want to be desrespectful to you. But I`m entitled to my opinion and it may sound choking to you, but try and see the reasoning behind it. Try and "question" Leninism with an open mind, not Lenin the man. Lenin the man is importante as historical figure and all but whats in question here is Leninism.

[El Che]

lol=Laughing Out Loud

[Capitalist Imperial]

Yuri, communism is dying, its almost dead, you lost the cold war, we (US) won, you're lucky we didn't turn Russia to sand, just accept it.

[CheGuevara]

Come on Yuri, get real. You're forgetting that Malte likes the capitalists and the psuedo-socialists that abound this forum.

[Xvall]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 8:57 pm on May 17, 2002
Yuri, communism is dying, its almost dead, you lost the cold war, we (US) won, you're lucky we didn't turn Russia to sand, just accept it.


Turn russia into sand? Had you launched a single nuclear missile, you would have been destroyed by a retalitaion of SEVERAL nuclear missiles. You think you're invincible? You didn't really win, the Soivet Union collapsed on itself. That's like claming you won a fight with a person, when they died of a hear attack before you even hit them.

As far as 'winning'. You lost nearly every military battle you fought. You lost in Vietnam, and were completely creamed in your horrible attempt to oust Castro in bay of pigs. Other than insalling puppet dictators in South America, your government has done nothing useful fpr the world!

[BananaKing]

I don't agree with any of the extreme-left ideology, however if this is a Democrat forum, Malte should announce that, if it is a Communist forum, Malte should allow Soviets as well. Agree?

-----
http://www.yoursighost.com/members/bananaking/sig2.gif

[yuriandropov]

capitalist imperial, communism as a marxist world wide revolution is dead (or at least sleeping very heavily). however, communism in former communist countries is not dead. just look at the situation most are in, remnents of communism are everywhere. privatising communist party assets simply doesn't work and only leads to chaos (ie russia). IMO communism (not necessarily in its old stalinist form) will come back to most formerly communist countries. i doubt we will see any new communist countries for a while. but old communist countries can't function under capitalism, in fact, what you see in russia isn't democracy and capitalism like in america, it is still oppressive and the state owned industries are now mafia owned. capitalism doesn't work in russia just as you would say communism wouldn't work in USA.

ps yes you did win the cold war, but it was through a soviet demise rather than a US win. nuclear war would mean an end to mankind. the two organisations you have to thank for the cold war remaining cold are the kgb and the cia (although you may not want to admit it).

[Edelweiss]

anti-leninism = opinion
anti-semtism = racism

[Nateddi]

Malte I don't think you should restrict Yuriandropov simply because of being sympathetic to stalinism. Anyone who is on the far left should be allowed to view / post on all forums.

Edit: I had to waste my 600th post on this shit!

(Edited by Nateddi at 9:38 pm on May 17, 2002)

[yuriandropov]

malte, by your reasoning, my 'anti-semitism' would be an opinion as well. because i have given my reasons behind it, wether you think they are right or wrong doesn't matter, it is my opinion. if you read my posts on jews you will see i'm not racist towards jews. i blame middle class jews for manipulating working class jews and i actually have a lot of sympathy for the jewish prolaterat, i think they are a key ally in communism. but my reason were, that they don't want to be an ally in communism (marxism-leninism) so they should be considered a possible enemy. note i said possible, not all jews are enemies.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 9:10 pm on May 17, 2002

Turn russia into sand? Had you launched a single nuclear missile, you would have been destroyed by a retalitaion of SEVERAL nuclear missiles.
As far as 'winning'. You lost nearly every military battle you fought. You lost in Vietnam, and were completely creamed in your horrible attempt to oust Castro in bay of pigs. Other than insalling puppet dictators in South America, your government has done nothing useful fpr the world!


Oh, yeah, we would have fired just "one missle" in the 1st place, besides, I doubt if most of the Soviets dilapidated warheads would have reached here.

Oh, vietnam? How original, every anti-american hangs their hat on one police action where we chose to leave instead of escalate, lucky for them, oh, and the bay oof pigs? American forces never went in, they were admittedly ill trained cuban rebels, but our forces never attacked at the bay of pigs, again, cuba dodged a bullet. Get your story strait, and don't forget about aus beating the soviets by proxy in afghanistan and winning the cuban missle crisis stand-off, sending kruscheff packing with his tail between his legs, get your history right before you post!!!

[yuriandropov]

the US beating the soviets? thats ridiculous, the US did nothing for the afghans but give them arms and aid, just like we did in vietnam, does that mean we beat you in vietnam?

US lost in vietnam for the same reasons we lost in afghanistan. public opinion, unfamiliar terrain and the enemys dedication. they were only going off the front dead or victorious. we were just fighting until we got sent home. if the soviet forces would have gone all out, we would have destroyed afghanistan in days and the same goes for the USA in vietnam. but public opinion is against imperialism so you can't do it.

[STALINSOLDIERS]

i hate you malte...yuri is completly right and in my opinion this site is dying slowly cause of un pure communism.....reall communism bans religion, fuck jews...this site should have more far left then just hippies and pacifest.. stalinism is good also lennism is good who....so if someone hate jews they get banned right and for who ever hates leninsim stays your fuck in the head man those who opposes any communism shall get banned.....those who hates jews should stay, why cause communism forbides religion to be practice...this site shouldnt be called che-lives this site is a disgrace to his name...malte your a desgrace to communism and che. and who ever oposes communism it aint dead its alive and growing in numbers.....

we dont die we muiltiply

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from yuriandropov on 4:42 pm on May 17, 2002
malte, by your reasoning, my 'anti-semitism' would be an opinion as well. because i have given my reasons behind it, wether you think they are right or wrong doesn't matter, it is my opinion. if you read my posts on jews you will see i'm not racist towards jews. i blame middle class jews for manipulating working class jews and i actually have a lot of sympathy for the jewish prolaterat, i think they are a key ally in communism. but my reason were, that they don't want to be an ally in communism (marxism-leninism) so they should be considered a possible enemy. note i said possible, not all jews are enemies.
As you have yet to disprove, I have pointed out that your "sympathy" for working class Jews is really just prejudice in sheep's clothing. Much like "compassionate conservatism".

[STALINSOLDIERS]

dammit usa fails in all war......usa lost in vietnam, bay of pigs, the korean war, everything usa sucks it cant do shit and check this out it called upon other to help cause they know they will loose by them selves.

[RGacky3]

hey SS why should all religion be banned, I think that thats just oppressive and stupid. Any way he sould not be restricted or banned, hes a comrad.

PS: SS calm down. jesus.

[Nateddi]

Quote: from STALINSOLDIERS on 10:14 pm on May 17, 2002
fuck jews


Now that is just wrong. I would not purge anyone for their background and personal beliefs. You shouldn't either, you become worse than the oppressor which you try to eliminate.

[Capitalist Imperial]

OK, YURI, I agree with that, that makes sense

Stalin Soldiers, you don't know your history, we won in Korea, no american forces were in bay of pigs, and we chose to leave vietnam just like soviets in afhanistan, read your history before you post

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from yuriandropov on 9:55 pm on May 17, 2002
the US beating the soviets? thats ridiculous, the US did nothing for the afghans but give them arms and aid, just like we did in vietnam, does that mean we beat you in vietnam?

US lost in vietnam for the same reasons we lost in afghanistan. public opinion, unfamiliar terrain and the enemys dedication. they were only going off the front dead or victorious. we were just fighting until we got sent home. if the soviet forces would have gone all out, we would have destroyed afghanistan in days and the same goes for the USA in vietnam. but public opinion is against imperialism so you can't do it.


I agree with that, we fought each other "by proxy" in vietnam and afghanistan, that makes sense

[Dan Majerle]

SS what kind of post was that? You should be ashamed of yourself. And Yuri why do you hate me so much?

[STALINSOLDIERS]

na dan majerly you should be ashamed of your self and so should many others so call them selves communist......and i dont blame yuri for hating you you dum shit..

[RedCeltic]

I am totaly against restricting or banning a 40 + year old who quite frankly has more to offer this board than most of it's younger members.

I do realize that being 31, most people here are younger than me, and I respect what most of the intelegent younger members have to say.

However, here comes this guy Yuri, who has lived in the Soviet Union, and now in an Ex Soviet nation, and can represent an important outlook lacking here.... and is treated like a second class citizen.

[PunkRawker677]

"PS: SS calm down. jesus. "

First, I doubt his name if Jesus, as a matter of fact, i know his name is not Jesus. But, i'm just kidding about this..

Why should he calm down? He has bad english and has trouble expressing his thoughts in english on this site. I personally know SS, he is a devoted communist. He is not racist, not is he a "stalinist" as you people describe them as, or should i say generalize. He's banned from forums because when he types something that is botched up, due to his english, he is attacked and suffers a large amount of personal attacks. Once again, stop fighting over such stupid things..

[Dan Majerle]

mmmmm there we go with the assumptions!
who said i was a communist? and how can you call me a "dum shit"? based on what?

[STALINSOLDIERS]

first of all thanks PunkRawker677 ....and another thing is dan majerly i didnt call you a communist i said many other that calls them selves a communist...and you are a dumm ass dan tu eres un burro comi mierda.

[Anarcho]

StalinSoldiers gets in trouble because his method of debate is personal attacks and swearing. This makes him look foolish, and juvenile. If he would actually make a point, instead of "F**k you, you don't know me, you're stupid for not seeing what I'm saying!" he might get somewhere.

Now then, as for Yuri, I already stated before the problem with him.... his total disregard for anything that anyone else says. I could post factual data from the Soviet Archives, and if it went against what he is trying to say, he would deny it. Hence, I try to avoid his issues, as it's like trying to debate with my daughter (6).

[Hayduke]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:12 am on May 18, 2002
we chose to leave vietnam just like soviets in afhanistan, read your history before you post


They lost thats why they left.

[Anarcho]

I've said it before... victory in that one was sort of subjective... it has taken 20+ years for the infrastructure of Vietnam to recover, and that long for the economy to recover. Millions of young men were killed...

The US lost a few dollars and 54,000 soldiers.


Also, please keep in mind that the US did not get as involved in Vietnam as they could have. Politically, for some reason, the US policy was not to really fight the war, so much as set up victories for the South Vietnamese. For some reason, the South Vietnamese just couldn't seem to hold up their end... hehehehe

[Hayduke]

Quote: from Anarcho on 5:31 pm on May 18, 2002
I've said it before... victory in that one was sort of subjective... it has taken 20+ years for the infrastructure of Vietnam to recover, and that long for the economy to recover. Millions of young men were killed...

The US lost a few dollars and 54,000 soldiers.


Also, please keep in mind that the US did not get as involved in Vietnam as they could have. Politically, for some reason, the US policy was not to really fight the war, so much as set up victories for the South Vietnamese. For some reason, the South Vietnamese just couldn't seem to hold up their end... hehehehe

Nice fancy talk,

but America still lost.
And now you can co me with more fancy talk bout recovering from a war, but they won didnt they ?

[Guest]

Very simple analysis, anarcho, again, vietnam is the one small american police action that anti-americans like to hang their hat on, anyt- americans seem to get "vietnam amnesia", they just remember that war and forget the 20+ other wars and actions we won. In reality leaving that war was just a good option for us. We could have escalated, bombed the shit out of the north, it was a political decision, it was lucky for the north vietnamese, our weapons and battles were mostly victories, we just left because we were scoring victories in regions were the victories didn't really det us anywhere, our government had us fighting with 1 hand tied behind our back. If they had let the pentagon unleash the full power of our military, it would have been different. We were far from beaten, we chose to withdraw instead of escalate. We did not suffer a significant loss of military forces, industrial losses, or economic losses, so, we really didn't "lose" anything (except for 50k+ young american lives, which was tragic, but few compared to what the vietnamese lost).

[guerrillaradio]

Interesting...SS "hates" Malte, Dan Majerle, D-Day and pretty much everyone apart from himself. Well well...like Anarcho says, all he does is swear in reply. I can (and have already) show you many examples of this. I have no time for him personally.

As for Yuri, I'd have no problem with him if he dropped the anti-Semitism. Generalisations such as Jews = capitalists is only worthy of fascism. He does have a lot to say and I am interested in debating Stalinism with him.

And Vietnam was America's biggest mistake...and the inspiration for a million anti-US Hollywood blockbusters.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Vietnam definately was a mistake, but we've recovered from it, and in the long run, it doesn't matter much

[Capitalist Fighter]

I'd say the loss of life in any epoch would have some significance. It's a tragedy when you think of all the pointless wars that were fought. I'm not going to deny that the First World War was fought over imperialism. I tend to think of myself as somebody who believes in Adam Smith Style laissez-faire capitalism. Saying Vietnam doesn't matter know anymore is like saying the Vietnam Veterans aren't important anymore, they have had their 15 minutes of fame and stuffed it up. Maybe you didn't articulate yourself well but that was my impression. I apologise if i've erred.

[Hayduke]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 3:32 am on May 19, 2002
Vietnam definately was a mistake, but we've recovered from it, and in the long run, it doesn't matter much


Shame my friend, shame

[Capitalist Imperial]

Take my statements in context, Of course the Vietnam veterans matter, and learning from our mistakes there matters, of course. I mean we did not suffer a great military, industrial, or economic loss as an empire. Our standing in the world was not changed by that war. We actually found that our weapons and stategies were very effective battle-to battle, contrary to what hollywood horsre-s**t movies portray (except Apocolypse Now, and the air-cav!!!)(that was my previous post as "guest")

(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 6:33 pm on May 20, 2002)

[Ernest Everhard]

shame for what?

[Michael De Panama]

Ban me too then! I'm anti-Leninism. Ban Vox, while you're at it.

[yuriandropov]

how can you be left wing and anti-leninist? i don't understands it! even many right wingers in russia love lenin! you do not realise what a great man he was. i am sure i have posted how great he was before but i will do it again because he deserves it.
lenin had NO regard for himself, he continued the revolution even after his brother had been killed and he was wanted by tsarist police, he denounced the US slave trade years before blacks could even ride the same buses as whites in USA, he didn't care about family, the prolaterat was his family, he didn't care about religion, communism was his religion, marx his god, the manifesto his bible! when he came to power, he refused to be paid more than a skilled worker! who else would refuse the benefits of head of state? he lived in a modest apartment no bigger than that of an average citizen, the ONE love in his life was his music, he loved beethoven, but he refused to listen to it because it made him soft, and to achieve communism, he must be hard! lenin walked the streets unprotected and met with the prolaterat. when do you see GW walking the streets of harlem on his own? he was, and will always be, the symbol of the working class. and any remark against him, i take as an insult towards myself. everything i have ever done in my life was inspired by lenin. i could have just worked in a factory all my life, but i got into university because of the inspiration lenin gave me. he was the reason i joined CPSU. comrade, if you ever get the chance to go to russia, you MUST visit ulyanovsk. learn about lenin there from the people, not just from a text book. maybe then can you truly appriciate the greatness of V.I. Lenin.

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:32 pm on May 20, 2002
We actually found that our weapons and stategies were very effective battle-to battle, contrary to what hollywood horsre-s**t movies portray (except Apocolypse Now, and the air-cav!!!)(that was my previous post as "guest")
(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 6:33 pm on May 20, 2002)

Carpet bombing with no regard for civilian casualties is not, in my opinion , an effective strategy.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:32 pm on May 20, 2002
We actually found that our weapons and stategies were very effective battle-to battle...


Such as massacring civilians (My Lai anyone??)

[Michael De Panama]

how can you be left wing and anti-leninist?

I am not anti-Leninism in the same sense as I am anti-Stalinism. I can still consider a Leninist a comrade. I am not in favor of all out destruction of Leninist principles, I am simply in disagreement with them. I do not consider Leninism to be an evil, as I consider Stalinism or present day capitalism. I am simply against them.

I feel that Lenin blended too much capitalist ideals into his system. The NEP, for example, was a silly idea. You, as a Stalinist sympathizer, should agree with me. Soviet communism was too premature. The only nations I even feel that are suited for communism are nations that have been industrialized and ruled by a bourgeoisie. Russia had barely begun to develope either. Because of this, Lenin formed a communist system that adapted to Russia's environment. Leninism is not an example of all communism in practice, it's an evolution of communism to suit Russia's post-feudal atmosphere. And I don't think that a post-feudal society is in need of a communist revolution.

he denounced the US slave trade years before blacks could even ride the same buses as whites in USA

Um. The US slave trade didn't exist in Lenin's time. Either way, that's commendable, but not too extraordinary.

he lived in a modest apartment no bigger than that of an average citizen

That's to be expected in a classless society. I didn't see your beloved Stalin living in a modest apartment.

if you ever get the chance to go to russia, you MUST visit ulyanovsk.

I agree. I would love to go see Lenin some day, but I still disagree with his ideology.

Everything you've mentioned relates nothing to his political ideology, but rather to his character. He could have been the greatest person in the whole world, but I'd still disagree with his politics.

[Nateddi]

I am a Marxist-Leninist :)

[yuriandropov]

'That's to be expected in a classless society. I didn't see your beloved Stalin living in a modest apartment. '

i never said i was stalins number 1 fan. i agree with many of his policies but i still would not call myself a stalinist.


'I am not anti-Leninism in the same sense as I am anti-Stalinism'

theres no difference in the ideology. stalinism is basically a continuation of leninism.

'I feel that Lenin blended too much capitalist ideals into his system.'

what you don't realise is that not all capitalist ideals are bad. one capitalist idea i agree with it, if you work hard, you benefit from it. like in CPSU, you move further up, you benefit.

you say you don't like his ideology, what about it don't you like?

and about the slave trade, what i was saying was it wasn't until 1960's that blacks in USA were starting to be treated fairly whereas lenin was advocating equality in early 1900's.

[Edelweiss]

From what you say here, yuri, it seems to me that the Russian left-wing is really different from the left-wing in western countries. Very backwardly orientated and conservative, just waiting for the reestablishment of the USSR. For which you can wait for ever, it will probaply never happen. In werstern countries Marxist-Leninist parties and organisations have lost much of their relevance for the left-wing since the collapse of the USSR, anti-globalisation groups like Attac (http://www.attac.org) are much more important today than dogamtic Marxist-Leninist parties. Actually Stalinists like you Yuri only can be found in small isolated poltical sects, at least to speak for Germany where I'm from.

[STALINSOLDIERS]

dont worry yuri dont listen to this idiot malte......ussr well come back and there more communsit then before ussr collapsed.........the CCCP well come back

[Nateddi]

Although I do believe that KPRF platform communism will return to Russia, I agree with Malte, that is how western leftist parties operate. Stalinism isn't as popular as it is in Russia (out of average socialists that is). As for SS, don't call malte an idiot when you can't organize your own words (although I agree that Communism will return to Russia).

[Edelweiss]

The KPRF has the majority of MPs in the Duma, right? So have they changed anything positively so far? I think they are just part of the Russian oligarchy as Putin is.

[yuriandropov]

malte, read my post called 'more proof of russia's revolutionary spirit'. the people speak for themselves, they want the USSR back. do they want a return to stalins days, no. but do they want the standard of living like in 70's? yes. they want the kind of living they had in brezhnevs days and the freedom of speech they had in gorbachevs days.

[Capitalist Imperial]

The USSR will never return, it would be even harder for it to exist now, with the majority of emerging markets being capitalist/democratic, and the US being stronger than ever.

[SU37]

USSR would have hard time rebuliding its self to ful power,but its not imposible for that to happen

[yuriandropov]

a return of USSR now would be impossible. the nations have to stabalise first. the USSR will be a realistic possibility in about 5 years and even then, it will only be USSR in name. it won't be the mighty superpower of the 60's and 70's. a new USSR would be something like the union treaty gorbachev drew up in late 1991. this would mean USSR would be a nation state, but each country's supreme soviet would have a lot more power. the hammer and sickle will wave above the kremlin and most former USSR nations will rejoin (maybe not the baltic states), but that doesn't mean a return to the cold war or even the old communist system. just a return of soviet patriotism.

[Capitalist Fighter]

Soviet patriotism? More like Russian hegemony over defeated nations. Most of the nations in the USSR did not want communism Yuri, Stalin annexed them after the war. That is why countries like Hungary in 1956, Czechoslovakia in 1968 expressed their discontent through uprisings that were crushed by ruthless Soviet armies. That is why nations such as Poland, Romania, etc all declared independence from the political order that was the USSR.

[yuriandropov]

poland, romania, hungary and czechoslovakia were not part of the USSR. USSR was russia, ukraine, belarus, georgia, armenia, azerbajan, moldova, estonia, lithuania, latvia, turkmenistan, tajikistan, uzbekistan, kazakstan and krygikstan. all of these countries (apart from the baltic states) have shown interest in a new USSR (with autonomy for each republic). most of these nations have a strong russian present anyway and countries like belarus have already joined in a union treaty with russia. moldova and ukraine will join very soon and then the first steps towards a nation state will get underway. most other republics will join the USSR if autonomy is granted.

[Guest]

Banning people from discussion is typical of commy pinkos. Censorship is a hallmark of comminist nations and a practice that anyone who enjoys the freedom of this country should find abhorrent.

I wonder why any of these neo-liberals haven't immigrated to Cuba or China. It is because deep down they know the horrors that they propound.

[Anarcho]

Yes, banning and censorship happens (even here, sad to say) but that's typical of any media outlet.

As for a reconstituted USSR, I think you would be surprised at what it may look like if it were to happen again.

Each of the nations you mentioned has their own military, government, and laws. Under the previous USSR, all rules and ruling came from Moscow.

What happens when Kazakhstan says they will not allow any more launches if Russia does not pay more money to them? Will Russia invade Kazackstan to seize Baikonur? (sp?)

[yuriandropov]

the only thing a new USSR would change would be, centralised military. thats it. and instead of a tri-colour above the kremlin it would be the old hammer and sickle. it would be a nation state only in name, flag, military and the fact that there would be no boundries. the countries would pursue there own policies and only in a time of crisis, would the power be centralised in moscow (ie war).

[Anarcho]

The problem with that is that, in Russia, the Military and Security (NKVD) are very political. Within the US, the military is a professinal military, that does not (or at least not often) meddle in politics. This was planned that way from the Beginning.

In Russia, the military has often been used to cow the opposition of your particular branch of the government. In the USSR, the powerful military dictated a certain amount of politics. This remains to the current day (the power company that ended up with a tank at their door for shutting of the power to a military base comes to mind).

[yuriandropov]

anarcho, that is a myth to be honest. red army held little or no political power in USSR. kgb started to hold power when andropov was voted to the politburo in 1973 but nothing major.
the military are used FOR political purposes. but they are used by the government. they do what the government says. they rarely intervened in politics.
anyway, talk of a new USSR is irelevant until the economies stabalise. once russia's economy is growing, then re-constructing the USSR can begin to be talked about.