THOSE DAMN GREEDY JEWS!

[CheGuevara]

THOSE DAMN GREEDY JEWS!

what are we referring to, the ethnic group or the religion? are we serious? Or is this a protest to the censorship of any members who do not mention the word Jew in a positive context? Do you care to even find out, Malte? Uh oh, you better hurry up and censor us Malte, or some of the members might get upset and try to defend the religion under the guise of the banner of attacking racism!

[RedRevolutionary87]

those damn jews

ahaha and every fuckin other national identity, nationalism and national identity is shit, we are all human get over it damn it, i fuckin hate anyone who can proudly say "im (insert national identity here)"

[SU37]

I would be swearing my brains out at ya if I were jewish,but im not jewish,oh well.

[BananaKing]

If you guys hate the Jews, you might as well go register on TheLyceum.org

- - - - -
http://www.yoursighost.com/members/bananaking/sig2.gif

[RedRevolutionary87]

ahaha i dont think yuou got the FUCKING POINT we are saying we hate all national identity, and we are having a little anti-semite witch-hunt, where anyone who says anything about jews is quickly silenced, even if its true. i hate jews, i hate all other national identities too, no more nor less than the other, get the point ya dumb fuk

[BananaKing]

I hardly consider myself a dumbfuck, well in this case I shall help your cause.

Damn greedy jews, they control the whole world!

-----
http://www.yoursighost.com/members/bananaking/sig2.gif

[DaNatural]

damn jews, ill go along with this just to protest the use of the word and how it is taken out of context

[I Will Deny You]

[hr]Quote: from CheGuevara on 10:19 pm on May 16, 2002
Or is this a protest to the censorship of any members who do not mention the word Jew in a positive context?[hr]Yeah right, as if you'd protest anything. I thought you were more of an AK-47 type of kid. Anyway, I'm certainly not surprised that you're overgeneralizing an important issue and I'm sure that I'll be wasting my energy by typing this out for you, but here goes: There is a difference between someone who does not mention Judaism in a positive context and someone who lies and repeats bullshit that is unsubstantiated and has caused the deaths of millions of people. Got it?[hr]Quote: from CheGuevara on 10:19 pm on May 16, 2002
Do you care to even find out, Malte? Uh oh, you better hurry up and censor us Malte, or some of the members might get upset and try to defend the religion under the guise of the banner of attacking racism![hr]Who here has defended the Jews in a religious context? I've simply cleared up misconceptions and lies about Jewish texts, their meaning, their importance and their origin, and I haven't even seen an attack on the Jewish religion specifically as much as I've seen propaganda being spewed out. And, for your information, racism has been incorporated into almost every anti-semitic attack since the Inquisition.

[RedRevolutionary87]

:) finally some1 gets the point...

[PaulDavidHewson]

You want to know the reason why Jews were prosecuted all these centuries?
Well, this is a little something I cooked up:

The Jewish people have always been a minority in every country. So when things go bad you must find a cause.
Since the cause is usually the state and the state can not permit to blame itself, they blame it on the jewish people.

To unite the people you must unite their passion, and since hate is a stronger emotion than love, you unite the people by giving them something to hate.

Hitler said the Roamn empire met it's demise because of the Jews, so it's very easy to point fingers and say:" hey let's not let this happen again, let's destroy them jews before they destroy us".

This bassicaly is what happened in the past centuries by goverments all over the world to cover up their own hidden agenda's and their means to stay in power.

If the jewish "problem" is solved or if there aren't any jews then you find a new "problem" that people love to hate. Perhaps that pesty neighbouring country is the reason behind everything that goes wrong?
Or maybe some other minority in a country?

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there isn't any jewish problem, only propoganda!
It's easy for a nation to blame a defensless minority.


But I think everyone knew this already and I'm basically just pointing it out to some of the anti-semites on this board.

[Xvall]

Attah Boy Paul...
Yep, people blame jews for everything...
Not just Germany, most of the world still sees jewish people as a minority.
So they're often used as a scapegoat.

[RedRevolutionary87]

iwdy, who are you to tell everyone what the jewish texts mean, let them interpret them for themselves...

and i mean you cant completely discredit everything about the jews, maybe the common jewish person has nothing to do with anything, but i can easly and confidently state, that there is an extremely strong jewish lobby all around the world, they may not controll everything, but they have a very strong political grip.

[CheGuevara]

Sometimes in controlled environments, someone will say a word that's not allowed. Then the authority figure will crack down on the individual, and sometimes, if the other members in the controlled environments feel that the authority figure is blindly cracking down on the word, regardless of its intended context or meaning, they'll start shouting the word.

[I Will Deny You]

[hr]Quote: from PaulDavidHewson on 10:46 pm on May 16, 2002
You want to know the reason why Jews were prosecuted all these centuries?
Well, this is a little something I cooked up:

The Jewish people have always been a minority in every country. So when things go bad you must find a cause.
Since the cause is usually the state and the state can not permit to blame itself, they blame it on the jewish people.

To unite the people you must unite their passion, and since hate is a stronger emotion than love, you unite the people by giving them something to hate.

Hitler said the Roamn empire met it's demise because of the Jews, so it's very easy to point fingers and say:" hey let's not let this happen again, let's destroy them jews before they destroy us".

This bassicaly is what happened in the past centuries by goverments all over the world to cover up their own hidden agenda's and their means to stay in power.

If the jewish "problem" is solved or if there aren't any jews then you find a new "problem" that people love to hate. Perhaps that pesty neighbouring country is the reason behind everything that goes wrong?
Or maybe some other minority in a country?

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there isn't any jewish problem, only propoganda!
It's easy for a nation to blame a defensless minority.


But I think everyone knew this already and I'm basically just pointing it out to some of the anti-semites on this board.
[hr]It's a sad, sad day when someone with a Bono avatar is making a good point and someone who names himself after Che Guevara is running around like an asshole and making incorrect, unfair generalizations.[hr]Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 10:50 pm on May 16, 2002
iwdy, who are you to tell everyone what the jewish texts mean, let them interpret them for themselves...[hr]This wasn't about interpretation, but overall misunderstandings about what's what in Judaism. Who am I to tell someone which interpretation is correct? I shouldn't do that, and I don't. But I do tell people how to look at texts the right way (i.e.: The Torah is metaphorical and the Talmud was written by different people) when they clearly don't get the way that Jews view things. Unlike Yuri, who only seems to have gotten out-of-context snippets of the Talmud from anti-semitic websites and doesn't understand that Talmud's meaning and the way that it's used, I read the entire Talmud (in English) and learned about it from Hassidic Jews. I've read somewhere between five to ten books on the Talmud's history, the people who wrote it and the people who read it. I've gotten a big part of the story. Obviously, my Talmud education was not unbiased (I was learning from Jews, after all), but I understand how Jewish people see the Talmud and Yuri clearly does not. He also has obviously not read the books that I have on the importance of the Talmud in Ashkenazim's lives over the years. (For the record, the book that I read on Ashkenazim and the Talmud had no political agenda and there was no conceivable reason as to why the author would play down its importance in Jews' lives.)

Lindsay


(Edited by I Will Deny You at 11:03 pm on May 16, 2002)

[PaulDavidHewson]

Back to the topic at hand.

In my opinion a national identity is very important.
It gives people a reason to work for.(especially in communisme)

I've heard dozens of communists proclaim that they want to be like Che and not give a damn about money, just the welfare of their country.
Isn't that all about restoring national pride and national idenpendence/succes?

In my opnion religion works in about the same fashion.
People try to live their lives in a way that will secure their position after death.
So give the people their own identity which they can be proud of and let them have their fate.
This way the people in a country will work for the succes of their country and try to live their lives in the best possible way as described by their religion.

In the case of a benevolent religion you will see that that country will have many social attributes and be very succesful because of national pride(and with national pride comes the desire to be succesful)

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 10:54 pm on May 16, 2002
Sometimes in controlled environments, someone will say a word that's not allowed. Then the authority figure will crack down on the individual, and sometimes, if the other members in the controlled environments feel that the authority figure is blindly cracking down on the word, regardless of its intended context or meaning, they'll start shouting the word.
Perhaps, instead of shouting that word like a five year old saying "crap" to piss of his parents, said individual who does not agree with the crackdown would best serve his community by analyzing the problem and the reasons for the crackdown, and maybe even going into more detail about his own opinions instead of just stating that he disagrees.

[RedRevolutionary87]

no my friend, communism is about restoring human pride, and abolishing state and national and racial pride.

i understand what your saying iwdy, but the point isnt how the jews view it, we are saying the theory behind it is wrong, i cannot repete enough, nor should i have to repete myself that the jewish people have nothing to do with this, since they are also people, and everyone else too, but a religion that says we are the chosen ones, is purely evil. any religion is evil, it my teach elssons, but it imposses them the wrong way, shure it preaches charity and peace and respect to the fellow man, but because your monarch said so(god), and only charity, peace and respect to those inside your religion, since others are wrong(this refers to the monothiestic religions of the world, i understand other religions dont veiw it this way)

[PaulDavidHewson]

This is for all the people that hate religion, national identity, etc.

To hate religion is to hate political movements!:

All the laws in the world exist because of religion.
The ten commandments ring a bell?

I don't think it was evil to proclaim just and humane laws in the name of a "higher authority" which happen to make out the fundaments our world is based on.

Socialisme exists because of religion.

In the beginning of civilisation there were religious movements and barely, if any, political movements.
But as man advanced religous movements got out of fashion and they started calling it differently(political movements) and instead you listen to a pope or Pharao, you now listen to a chairman/president/etc.
But don't you see that it's the same, they just name it different?

You can name an orange a apple, but it will still be an orange :)

(Edited by PaulDavidHewson at 5:29 am on May 17, 2002)

[I Will Deny You]

[hr]Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 11:11 pm on May 16, 2002
i understand what your saying iwdy, but the point isnt how the jews view it, we are saying the theory behind it is wrong[hr]I was talking about the Talmud and how the Jews view it, and pointing out that there isn't a single credible source that agrees with Yuri's position on how the Talmud is used by Jews. How is the theory behind it wrong? I'm not quite sure I get what you're saying. The theory behind the Talmud is that many Rabbis got together and interpreted the Torah, and the Talmud can be used as a guide to the Torah. The lessons in it can be applied to everyday life as well as religious life. How is that wrong?[hr]Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 11:11 pm on May 16, 2002
but a religion that says we are the chosen ones, is purely evil.[hr]The whole "Chosen People" thing is widely misunderstood. It simply means that the Messiah will be a Jew. That's all.[hr]Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 11:11 pm on May 16, 2002
shure it preaches charity and peace and respect to the fellow man, but because your monarch said so(god)[hr]That's a bit of a generalization. I'm a humanist, and your statement does not apply to humanism whatsoever.[hr]Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 11:11 pm on May 16, 2002
and only charity, peace and respect to those inside your religion, since others are wrong(this refers to the monothiestic religions of the world, i understand other religions dont veiw it this way)[hr]I can't speak for other religions in the monotheistic category because I'm not educated in Islam or Christianity more than the average member of this board, but in Judaism you're supposed to respect everyone regardless of religion. I never went to a reform Hebrew School (I was taught by local Hasidim) but I saw a reform textbook and it told kids that other religions deserve just as much respect as Judaism. This is also the opinion of the ultra-orthodox people who taught me, so there you have it: across the spectrum, respect is the norm. Of course, there a few people who disagree with this, but most Jews believe that others deserve respect.

[BananaKing]

I agree, no religion in general is taught to hate other religion, perhaps extremists versions of certain religions. I never heard of a Jew being extremely disgraceful to other religions. Anti-semitism is just as bad and uncredible as race/sex discrimnation? Agreed? Although I don't think people should be banned for making a few comments which "seem" anti-semetic.

-----
http://www.yoursighost.com/members/bananaking/sig2.gif

[ID2002]

The Jews were at one time were a VERY socialist group of people! They still are in many places.

...religion can be influenced by politics and vice versa: but to hate one, is to hate the other. This is the true nature behind world events.

I decided to become a Buddhist in order to continue my socialist ideology. So far, I have been correct. So many faiths today have become "materialised" and $ oriented....morally corrupted.
But there are a few groups which still adhear to there doctrines and have not been influenced by such things:

[Reuben]

For once paul david hewson is right. The main reason behind anti-jewish persecution is that they are a minority.

Regarding the issue of ethnicity etc, an extremely close equivalent to the jews are the gypsies. They constitute a distinct ethnic group although are not tied to any particular territory and as a minority suffer a hell of a lot of persecution..

There also gysie beliefs in the same way there are jewish beliefs. This doesnt make the tttacks on gypsies less racist as they are constantly attacked as an ethnic group. And if somebody sai I hate all romanies (gypsies) I WOULD consider them racist

[yuriandropov]

jews persecuted because they are a minority? ha ha ha! i've discredited that bull shit time and time again on this forum. answer my other question reuben, why aren't satainsts persecuted? why aren't scientologists persecuted?

because of blatant mindless racist idiots like hilter and other nazis, any slight 'anti-semitic' comment is treated as if the commentor is a nazi.

reuben, haven't you got any better reasons why jews are no liked throguh out the world? other than the old minority excuse?

[FtWfTn]

Ya know those damn dirty jews. . . .ugh . .. its just to. . . .jesus. . . .i don't even wanna go there. ..oh shit i said oh jesus.. . .there it is again. . .what to do. . .oh what to do! whoa is me! someone help me decipher whats wrong and whats right!

[Fabi]

i think patriotism is pretty unhealthy because we are all human and people tend to forget about that.... also what's up with people NOW saying the kicked someone's ass 200 years ago???? man those people must be pretty old... or just unreasonably patriotic...

i also think that because i dislike people of any religion who are too narrow-minded about it, i could feel the same way about jews. of course only really reactionary and conservative jews... and only if i knew any.. which i dont...

and this is getting old...

[El Che]

CheG&RedR dont you too think there is this ample justification to crack down, with all our weight, on people that call Jews "dirty" and "greedy"? Because if you do, then I dont understand the meaning of this thread. And if you dont, then we should crack down on you.

[Edelweiss]

El, thank you ElChe for your wise words, that's exactly what I'm just was gonna say.

[FtWfTn]

its to show that there is a witch hunt going on. .. . its inane. . . .stop picking out people and calling them anti this and anti that. . .your can't censor these things. . .I wanna hear them. . offensive or not. . .the point of me joining this site wasto get views from both halves of the system and now that we've encountered more hat maybe we were or were not ready for you start banning them. .. or others say we should ban them. . . .then whats the point of this site? I wanna see things from both sides I don't know about you but it would be a damn shame if we were to start censoring what we got going on here.. . . .Malte I got nothing against you. . .this site is amazeing. . .I want to see it become more as much as the next person. . .. but a few things have to be looked upon and not frowned upon. I didn't want to take sides till I read what was up. . .Che G is a very intellegent person. . .believe it or not. . .j/k. . .. .he has a very strong point. . .I hope maybe if its just in this case that we listen to him. . . .Ban us if you want. . .but part of this site started to teach me to stand out and speak my mind. .. . I'm doing that now. . .and if you can't respect that then you haven't taught me a thing. . . . .

[yuriandropov]

this website is very good don't get me wrong, but it is so hypocritical.
you cry at stalininsts for being oppressive and then you speak of 'cracking down' on certain people. whats next, are me, cheguevera and thine stalin 'enemies of the prolatrian internet user'. send us to the gulags!
the people who make the decisions on this board must have massive egos. as it is clear all you want is people to agree with you. you need people to tell you your ideas are great and they the are supreme ideas to feed your massive ego. then when anyone comes on the forum with a diferent opinion, they are either banned, have posts deleted, or are restricted to this forum. i have already had the two latter done to me. i expect the former to come soon.

[BananaKing]

Interesting, it looks like there is going to be a war between the Democrats and the Soviets.

If I was malte, I would allow all communists in the commie club, but than again, its just common sense. I am new to this board, so its fun to see if its a democrat's place in disguise.

-----
http://www.yoursighost.com/members/bananaking/sig2.gif

(Edited by BananaKing at 5:18 pm on May 17, 2002)

[Edelweiss]

Arrgh, I'm very frustrated, disapointed and depressed now. It's not a fucking witch hunt! It's not that I autocraticly pick members which I don't like, call them anti-semite and ban them. All I do is calling anti-semites what they are. If you think that I should tolerate anti-semitic Stalinism just as I tolerate nearly every other leftist opnion, than I can't help you. I'll never do that. Anti-semitism is a dangerous racist ideology which has killed millions people. If you want to discuss with racists go thephora.com or somewhere else. But this community has anti-racism rules, and I'm consistent with them. As I already said, it's not my fault that there is such a massive wave of anti-semitism here. I would NEVER ban annyone just because his views on socialism are different than mine.

[PaulDavidHewson]

Thank you Malte for that explanation.


yuri or red revolutionary & co,
Aren't you going to reply anything on my last post(s)?

(Edited by PaulDavidHewson at 7:46 pm on May 17, 2002)

[STALINSOLDIERS]

malte your pittyful you banned me cause i had a socialist view of killing capitalist civilians or none civilians i just have to say is that no matter who it is you must kill who ever hates communism cause there going to fuck the communist system up....but im still hoping that the islamic jihad nukes usa in july 4............fuck religion its nothing but war and anti-communist

[Guest1]

SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!! THIS IS REDICULOUS! There's no room for racism in an egalatarian society, just as there's no room for selfishness. There are few actual rules here. To be tolerant of racial or religious backgrounds is the big one. People here, not just malte, spoke about these violations over and over again before it got to this level. There's been enough warning. I'm sick of this shit. STOP WHINING!! Some people were supporting the mass slaughter of SECULAR Jews, so don't give me that bullshit that religion is bad, because it has nothing to do with this. We're talking about discrimination based on what they were born as, not what they believed. ANYONE who supports that is no innocent victim of fascism, they ARE fascists. Or would you rather we start saluting Hitler? WHERE THE FUCK HAVE MY COMRADES GONE?

[RedCeltic]

What the fuck are you talking about SS? I know people I went to school with who died on 9-11, where then capitalists? 'Anti-communists'... because they worked for the fucking NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT? There's a stalinist who writes for a Stalinist newspaper who was late getting to work... he worked in the WTC and would have been in there if he was at work on time.

Was he anti communist? Even though he writes for a communist newspaper? He worked in the WTC... so must have been 'eh?

Get a fucking clue toadstool.

[PaulDavidHewson]

calm down Che y Marijuana, don't take him seriously.
He is just trying to provoke you with this lame shit.

He is probably jerking off right now at all the responses he is provoking.

[RedCeltic]

StalinSolgers rarely has any clue of what he's talking about much less have any kind of plan of making people react in a particular way.


He is probably jerking off right now at all the responses he is provoking.

More like he's stairing blankly at the screen thinking, "duhh, did I write that?"

[Hayduke]

Pointless discussions.

[El Che]

Racists should be pruged by a nice witch hunt. They should all be banned they are worse then the Capitalists. Fuck all of u prejudiced mother+++

[FtWfTn]

and heres the collapse of che-lives...........well it was fun guys/gals

[SU37]

This thread is confusing,very confusing.

[I Will Deny You]

[hr]Quote: from yuriandropov on 7:23 am on May 17, 2002
jews persecuted because they are a minority? ha ha ha! i've discredited that bull shit time and time again on this forum.[hr]You haven't discredited this as much as you've simply denied it.[hr]Quote: from yuriandropov on 7:23 am on May 17, 2002
answer my other question reuben, why aren't satainsts persecuted? why aren't scientologists persecuted?[hr]In the societies that scientology thrives in, there isn't much anti-semitism. If the scientologists were available for slave labor in ancient Egypt, however, you can bet that they would have been oppressed. And as for Satanism, it's more a Christian lie than an actual religion. When's the last time you saw a Satanist house of worship? If Satanists were more of an identifiable group than a myth, I imagine they would be persecuted. Also, it's notable that in place of Satan worshippers, Christians have persecuted Jews, often in conjunction with promoting the rumor that the Antichrist will be a Jew, the Jews worship Satan and put blood in their Matzoh and so forth.[hr]Quote: from yuriandropov on 7:23 am on May 17, 2002
because of blatant mindless racist idiots like hilter and other nazis, any slight 'anti-semitic' comment is treated as if the commentor is a nazi.[hr]The Nazis ruined my ancestors' fun more than they could ever ruin yours.[hr]Quote: from yuriandropov on 7:23 am on May 17, 2002
haven't you got any better reasons why jews are no liked throguh out the world? other than the old minority excuse?[hr]Why have the gypsies been persecuted for so long, if not for their foreign beliefs and small numbers?[hr]Quote: from STALINSOLDIERS on 1:56 pm on May 17, 2002
but im still hoping that the islamic jihad nukes usa in july 4[hr]The only difference between fundamentalist Muslims and Christian or secular Americans is that the Americans have the means to control an empire. The fundamentalist Muslims would do exactly what America is doing if they had the means, but they would also oppress everyone who doesn't follow their ideology in the process. If they do nuke America on July 4, all that I can hope is that you'll be right under their bomb.[hr]Quote: from Che y Marijuana on 2:02 pm on May 17, 2002
There's no room for racism in an egalatarian society, just as there's no room for selfishness.[hr]I couldn't have said it better myself. And of course, let's not forget that selfishness and racism (or other forms of prejudice) are often intertwined.

Lindsay

[yuriandropov]

'why have gypsies been persecuted for so long'. by gypsies, i presume you mean nomads? if this is correct, they have been persecuted for the same reasons jews have. they refuse to assimilate, they are selfish. they don't want to be part of society and they only look out for themselves. that is a blatant generalisation, but it is the general view of the public. i am not necessarily saying it is right for them to be persecuted, but that is the reason (the main one anyway). not because they are a minority.

[PaulDavidHewson]

we are Borg, resistance is futile.
You will be assimilated.

[Fabi]

"they don't want to be part of society and they only look out for themselves. that is a blatant generalisation, but it is the general view of the public. i am not necessarily saying it is right for them to be persecuted, but that is the reason (the main one anyway). not because they are a minority. "



then what IS a minority? it is a group in a society that is smaller than the rest and behaves/thinks in some way differently....
they are minorities BECAUSE they dont adjust... if they adjusted they wouldnt be minorities anymore...

[Michael De Panama]

You know, "CheGuevara", if the real Che Guevara were to read what you just wrote (while using HIS name), he would have beat the fuck out of you.


Quote: from FtWfTn on 8:20 pm on May 17, 2002
and heres the collapse of che-lives...........well it was fun guys/gals


I was thinking the exact same thing.

[CheGuevara]

You don't know shit about Che Guevara. You're probably like 95% of the forum members here, and haven't read a single piece of Che's writing. You missed the entire point of the post. I don't think Che would have a problem with me rallying against unfairly implemented censorship.

[FtWfTn]

You know, "CheGuevara", if the real Che Guevara were to read what you just wrote (while using HIS name), he would have beat the fuck out of you.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: from FtWfTn on 8:20 pm on May 17, 2002
and heres the collapse of che-lives...........well it was fun guys/gals

dude your just as bad as him then for saying that.. . .duh!

and yea i believe we are all thinking that

[STALINSOLDIERS]

death to usa , deaqth to capitalism , death to religion and soon this site well go down as well for not following the real che guevara words.....like no weed che didnt like weed and look at malte he a weed head fuck you malte and fuck 95% of you hippies

[vox]

"You're probably like 95% of the forum members here, and haven't read a single piece of Che's writing."

95%, huh? Looks like cheg is starting to mysteriously know things about people, without any possible way of verifying it, of course, just like the right-wingers! You're in good company, cheg.

vox

[Dan Majerle]

SS shouldn't you be in the mountains participating in your guerilla movement right about now? Or are you a pacifist!?!?!

[SU37]

Quote: from STALINSOLDIERS on 4:40 am on May 18, 2002
, weed head fuck you malte and fuck 95% of you hippies
Wow,I never know I was a hippie.I smoke weed,Im so offened.

[RedRevolutionary87]

well then, this looks quite dandy... first of all i dunno how to explain myself...i dotn hate jews any more than i hate anyother religion, or national identity. i hate racism, almost as much as capitalism. and through this hate ive decided that the only way to get rid of racism is to get rid of national identity. one can embrace other culters, but if you get in a fight with someone, you almost always attack the group they belong to aswell, it happens, its natural. when you are angry you dotn think straight, so only through tolerence of everyone, and seeing everyone as human and nothing more nor less can we get rid of racism, this is my standpoint.

so it is not anti-semitism to state something wrong the jews did, they are human too and make mistakes, and they did get greedy, not all of them mind you, but those that represent them did, and alot of people get greedy, its normal, doesnt mean i hate jewish people for it, nor do i hate the jewish religion because of it, i hate it for other reasons, just like i hate every other religion. so when that one comrade said the jews got greedy, this doesnt mean he hates them, it only means hes pointing out a mistake they made, its not antisemitism

and to pual david..religion is nto political movement, it is only the firs tstart of political movement, but what came first isnt always best. remember how we had viscous monarchy before capitalism, but i can honestly say capitalism is better, but its not the best. human society needs to evolve, the next step is communal living, where everyone is viewed as human and nothing else or more, you are a citizen of earth not a certain national identity, and i dotn care if my views dotn agree with ches(they probably dont), i mena he was a cuban nationalist because he wasnt cuban, he was there because he knew he was doing the right thing.

and yes we should crack down on anti semitism, but we have to be sure that that is truly what it is. remember everyone agreed we had to crack down on terrorrism, but that left countless civilians dead in afghanistan, im just asking that we think before we take action.

(Edited by RedRevolutionary87 at 12:34 pm on May 18, 2002)

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 1:27 pm on May 18, 2002
so it is not anti-semitism to state something wrong the jews did, they are human too and make mistakes, and they did get greedy, not all of them mind you, but those that represent them did, and alot of people get greedy, its normal, doesnt mean i hate jewish people for it, nor do i hate the jewish religion because of it, i hate it for other reasons, just like i hate every other religion. so when that one comrade said the jews got greedy, this doesnt mean he hates them, it only means hes pointing out a mistake they made, its not antisemitism
I agree that it isn't wrong to say that a certain group of Jews, at a specific point in time, were greedy. But it is wrong to say that Judaism embraces greed, because as I have shown, people who say that are usually shitheads. If a person says that Ariel Sharon is greedy, I'd love nothing more than to pat them on the back! But when someone says that all Jews are greedy, I'd prefer to punch them in the face. So some people have pointed out specific groups of Jews that were greedy at one point in time (including myself), but there have also been people who have said that Jews are inherently greedy. There is probably going to be some dispute about where that line should be drawn, but it's a good first step to acknowledge that this line needs to be drawn.

Lindsay

EDIT: PS, CheG, I've read Guerrilla Warfare, Socialism and Man in Cuba, and the Anderson biography of Che. And as long as I'm defending my right to post on a Che Guevara board, I may as well mention that I've been involved in trying to bring socialism into a more or less democratic system (like Che did in Guatemala), I've supported a legitimate Leftist rebel group (like Che's guerrilla actions were), I've gone on a road trip like Che did (and I'm actually going to go on another one soon, but this time it'll be for less than a year), I smoke tobacco but don't support cigarette companies, much like Che, I read a magazine that interviewed Che, I've volunteered with Habitat for Humanity and built houses for poor people just like Che, hell, I even have dark, shoulder-length hair like Che did in his prime and I drank something with Yerba Mate in it recently . . . I can't think of any more similarities, but I think this proves that your psychic powers could use a tune-up. Anyway, stalinsoldiers, saying that smoking weed is bad because Che didn't do it is like saying that [inot[/i] smoking cigars is bad because Che DID do it.

(Edited by I Will Deny You at 1:49 pm on May 18, 2002)

[RedRevolutionary87]

no im saying that the jewish community(again not the lowly worker) got greedy when they were given israel and wanted more. personaly i belive they should have been allowed to return to theyre home countries after the war, but the west is dumb. and i think the person that said that in one of his posts didnt mean that jews are greedy, he said they got greedy, i see no anti-semitism in that.

[Reuben]

Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 6:27 pm on May 18, 2002
well then, this looks quite dandy... first of all i dunno how to explain myself...i dotn hate jews any more than i hate anyother religion, or national identity. i hate racism, almost as much as capitalism. and through this hate ive decided that the only way to get rid of racism is to get rid of national identity. one can embrace other culters, but if you get in a fight with someone, you almost always attack the group they belong to aswell, it happens, its natural. when you are angry you dotn think straight, so only through tolerence of everyone, and seeing everyone as human and nothing more nor less can we get rid of racism, this is my standpoint.

so it is not anti-semitism to state something wrong the jews did, they are human too and make mistakes, and they did get greedy, not all of them mind you, but those that represent them did, and alot of people get greedy, its normal, doesnt mean i hate jewish people for it, nor do i hate the jewish religion because of it, i hate it for other reasons, just like i hate every other religion. so when that one comrade said the jews got greedy, this doesnt mean he hates them, it only means hes pointing out a mistake they made, its not antisemitism

and to pual david..religion is nto political movement, it is only the firs tstart of political movement, but what came first isnt always best. remember how we had viscous monarchy before capitalism, but i can honestly say capitalism is better, but its not the best. human society needs to evolve, the next step is communal living, where everyone is viewed as human and nothing else or more, you are a citizen of earth not a certain national identity, and i dotn care if my views dotn agree with ches(they probably dont), i mena he was a cuban nationalist because he wasnt cuban, he was there because he knew he was doing the right thing.

and yes we should crack down on anti semitism, but we have to be sure that that is truly what it is. remember everyone agreed we had to crack down on terrorrism, but that left countless civilians dead in afghanistan, im just asking that we think before we take action.

(Edited by RedRevolutionary87 at 12:34 pm on May 18, 2002)


ONe of the most sensiblee and intelligent and thoughtful posts I have read in a long time. Thanks RR

[RedRevolutionary87]

your very welcome, im glad some1 finally understands...

[PaulDavidHewson]

I'd sooner say one of the dumbest post.

"the next step is communal living, where everyone is viewed as human and nothing else or more, you are a citizen of earth not a certain national identity"

what you are saying contradicts with human nature.
An individual needs to feel unique and special.
An individual doesn't want to be a drone. It's normal for people to distinguish themselves from the rest.
Noone has the same interests and noone has the same taste. Do you think all those different music types and art types exist because people agree on one another?

The only way to keep people content is to give the people what the majority want(keep into perspective what the international majority also wants) and your country should do fairly well on both national and international standards.

And to keep the minority happy you should have a liberal reign, where people can explore and express themselves. If you restrict people from thinking or doing things too much you'll only create an environement which will ultimately lead to disaster. People will keep things bottled up inside and when the time is right they'll express themselves.


"and to pual david..religion is nto political movement, it is only the firs tstart of political movement"

You should read my post more careful. I said countries were first ruled primarliy based on religion and this slowely transfered to political movements which came from religous movements. Even monarchs were considered to be blessed by god themselves.
Since religious based goverments didn't cut it anymore at a certain point you could clearly see hybrid forms forming. Anyway this is not the point, my point was found in the first two lines of this argument.


But my main point would be that you cannot just form any country into an communist country or for that matter a capitalist country. It's all about looking at what the majority wants and creating hybrid forms.
You are mistaken if you think Marx wrote a universal manual to succesful Marxisme that can blindly be applied in any country on earth.
Background, Culture, personality, religion, etc, are all things you have to take into consideration before determining what kind of goverment is best suitable in a given country.

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 3:47 am on May 18, 2002
You don't know shit about Che Guevara. You're probably like 95% of the forum members here, and haven't read a single piece of Che's writing. You missed the entire point of the post. I don't think Che would have a problem with me rallying against unfairly implemented censorship.

I know plenty about the guy. I've read and own plenty of the man's writings. I admire him very much. I don't really see why I have to prove my worth to you. This isn't a fucking contest to see who knows more about Che. But, if anything, I probably understand his political ideology better than a large number of people. And, unlike little angst-driven snotty kids like you, I would never imagine Che "rallying against unfair censorship" by posting anti-semitic comments on an internet message board. You represent the 95% of people who know about Che because he is a face on a t-shirt. Whether or not it is true that this is how you know about Che, you act just like these idiots. Che was not just a rebel for all rebels. If Che were to protest censorship, he would have used a lot more intelligence than you.

Che does not advocate racism. He does not advocate censorship, but he would never sacrifice one of his ideals to promote another. That's just hypocritical. It's the same thing as buying a Che Guevara t-shirt, that was made in a Malaysian sweatshop by some big corporation, to protest against the evils of capitalism.

[Reuben]

He also used to beat up anti-semites back in argentina, if this is ata ll relevant!

Paul David Hewson,I did not aghree entirely with redrevolutionary on the issue of national identiy. I believe there is no problem with one haveing their own cultural or national identity which reflects their history, their common culture and the language which they speak etc. Remember lenin believed similar things about national identities as did stalin, and unsurprisingly this ressulted in the forced assimilation of minorities to the majority culture.


Still a great post which incorporated and dealt wwith properly practically evgery issue on the table, and also recognized the contradictions here, that like tterrorism there was a genuine problem with anti-semitism

[CheGuevara]

It still appears that you completely missed the point and the true meaning of my original post. Don't always accept words at their face value.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 1:50 pm on May 18, 2002
no im saying that the jewish community(again not the lowly worker) got greedy when they were given israel and wanted more. personaly i belive they should have been allowed to return to theyre home countries after the war, but the west is dumb. and i think the person that said that in one of his posts didnt mean that jews are greedy, he said they got greedy, i see no anti-semitism in that.
Well, I agree with what you said.

[peaccenicked]

'Leftists' who talk about greedy jews or talk about a race as though everybody in that race is patriotic are just bigots with an anti jewish axe to grind. I dont think
they have a place on this bb and should be ''witch hunted''.
This is no place for that mindless crap. Period.

[CheGuevara]

Yet another incompetent bastard who completely missed the point. Anyway, it's interesting that the only time you stop making huge cut and paste posts, Peacenik, is when there's a member that you want to ban or censor. How constructive.

[peaccenicked]

I dont think I missed the point. I just think you made an extremely bad point. The inferred religious ambiguity is infantile, and it is incredulous that you wish to be taken seriously as a leftist.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 6:30 am on May 20, 2002)

[CheGuevara]

Yes, silly me, raising the distinction between a group into which one is born, and a group one chooses.

[peaccenicked]

using the term Jewish to decribe a religion is inaccurate to say the least. The word is mostly used as a racial term. Judaism is not embraced by all jews. It is a bit like the non sense you get from bigoted protestants who say "Once a catholic, always a catholic''. The act of being born into a faith does not preclude choice later on
or does birth preclude conversion. How does greed come into it anyway, accidently or by the twisted accentation of a racist stereotype. It also appears that you are helping to convey the false notion from the orthodox jewish faith and the Zionists that only religious
jews are bona fide.

[Fabi]

"I believe it was a french political scientist who was saying that the holocaust didn't happen. He was being silenced for espousing such appalling views. Legal action was being brought against him. Chomsky signed a petition asking to stop such measurements, he was one of five-hundred. He wasn't defending what this moron was saying, but his right to say it! Hell, Chomsky's Jewish. One wonders why people attack the person and not the concepts being discussed, maybe its because Noam speaks the truth.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." --Noam Chomsky
"


i got this from an amazon book review....

[FtWfTn]

using the term Jewish to decribe a religion is inaccurate to say the least. The word is mostly used as a racial term so how exctly can you distinguish the two? thats what we're trying to get at. You don't know which term it is. . .Unless it is due to context. which would make it easier. But thats not always the case. Am I making sense?

[peaccenicked]

Sometimes the language we use is racist in its construction, it means we have to be much more thoughtful in the construction of our sentences.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from FtWfTn on 8:10 am on May 20, 2002

using the term Jewish to decribe a religion is inaccurate to say the least. The word is mostly used as a racial term so how exctly can you distinguish the two?
Puts an entire box of cream cheese on one bagel and then eats it = Jewish culture
Refuses to eat meat for three hours after eating said bagel with cream cheese = Jewish religion

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 12:30 pm on May 19, 2002
It still appears that you completely missed the point and the true meaning of my original post. Don't always accept words at their face value.


The true meaning of your original post was to "protest" what you deemed "unfair censorship". Now, you went about this by saying anti-semetic comments. What you are telling me is that you are not okay with censorship, but you are okay with anti-semetism and using anti-semetism to attack censorship. If you were like the real Che, you would not go about fighting censorship, promoting one of your ideals, by saying anti-semetic comments, sacrificing another ideal. But you obviously do not give enough of a fuck about hatefull idiot prejudice to really "sacrifice" anything. You don't have a problem with it. Just like the masses of Germany during Hitler's rise to power.

[Fabi]

"Just like the masses of Germany during Hitler's rise to power."

just like the masses of the WORLD... to be precise....

[CheGuevara]

The comments mean nothing if the feeling isn't there. Or if the feeling is totally different. For example, when a black person says 'nigger,' is it taken to mean the same thing as if a non-'wigger' white person says it?

[Lardlad95]

comments don't necasarily lose meaning with out feeling. If some white guy says "whats up my nigga" to me I'm still gonna be pissed even if he didn't mean it that way

[Michael De Panama]

If a black person is using that word, his intent is not to make an entire race of people seem inferior to him, because he is a member of that race.

You, however, are not jewish.

[RedRevolutionary87]

why?
i mean hes no different than you, get over it, the white guy is no different than you, there are alot of racists out there, but saying only black people can say nigger and not be considered racist is just adding to the racism.


and i have nothing against culture, one can have their own cultural identity, but it doesnt need to be given a name, as soon as you name your "club" there is gonna be someone else who hates it, without a name you cant be discriminated against:) thats what i mean by destroying national identities, destroy the name so people do what is part of their culture, not what is expected of them when they are born into that culture, or name.

[Lardlad95]

white people can only have one meaning for the word. We use the word because it is now our word. WHite people have opressed every ethnic group on earth. They haven't earned the right to use the word

[RedRevolutionary87]

im white and i personaly take offense to that, you have generelized and even been racist towards me. first off nigger is a racist term developed by white slave owners, and racists, by using it, even if you are black you are contributing to the racism.

remember jews are white too, dotn let colour stand in the way of peace.

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 12:57 am on May 21, 2002
why?
i mean hes no different than you, get over it, the white guy is no different than you, there are alot of racists out there, but saying only black people can say nigger and not be considered racist is just adding to the racism.


and i have nothing against culture, one can have their own cultural identity, but it doesnt need to be given a name, as soon as you name your "club" there is gonna be someone else who hates it, without a name you cant be discriminated against:) thats what i mean by destroying national identities, destroy the name so people do what is part of their culture, not what is expected of them when they are born into that culture, or name.


Personally, I don't really like any of those words used by anyone. But, for example, if an upper class white guy in an SUV called me a spic, I would take much more offense to it than if my cousin did. The white guy IS different from me. He never has been or will be called a spic. There is no irony to that.

I heard Chris Rock say once, something like, "If a black man calls another black man a nigger, that's like calling your kid an idiot. Only YOU can call your kid an idiot. If someone else does, there's gonna be a fight!"

If two people have a cultural bond, it is not really that offensive to insult each other's culture. If someone else does, that's a whole other story.

[CheGuevara]

I'm not exactly sure 'nigger' always has a racist connotation. I've heard black people use it seemingly in a friendly way among each other, in direct reference to each other. I'm not sure if it has any racist connotations in that sense. I've also heard black people use it in an obviously racist sense in direct or indirect reference to other black people. My point was just that your immediate knee jerk reaction to words regardless of their context is absolutely rediculous. And how the fuck do you know that I'm not Jewish?

[RedRevolutionary87]

exactly! people dont let yourselves fall into stereotypes,a word is a sound and hardly anything more unless you let it be!

[Menshevik]

I'm sorry, but if you're white, you have absolutely no right to say the word "nigger" no matter the context. Frankly I don't even think it should be discussed. The N-word is used oftentimes by blacks in a friendly manner not because they like the way it sounds or they like being called "niggers" by other people, but because it softens the blow of centuries of hatred. It's almost like creating a euphemism for the word; when using you have to own your race--you blackness. Therefore it is totally inappropriate for whites or anyone else to use it, even if it is only a word. It is never used as a racist term between blacks, but trust me, it will always be viewed as racist when used by non-blacks.

[RedRevolutionary87]

again, i ask why?

a black person agreeing to use the word only further distenguishes themself from the rest of the world and spawns more racism, go ahead and develope and have your own culture, but there is no need to label it

[CheGuevara]

Pull your head out of your ass. If you've ever spent any time around black people, you would know that there are some who have lighter skin or are 'less black' in cultural terms who refer to other blacks who are 'more black' as niggers. I've heard it first hand, as I live in an area with few black people, and the black people around are 'less black' in cultural terms.

And Jesus butt fucking Christ, shit, I'm sick of people saying, don't discuss this, don't discuss that. Go fuck off you little politically correct fascists.

(Edited by CheGuevara at 1:56 am on May 21, 2002)

[FtWfTn]

What abot when you have a bunch of black friends and use the term nigger losely? they don';t mind. . you don't even realize your using it. . .cause thats what happened to me and some of my friends. . .does that mean i've joined their race? I had to earn acceptence? What the hell is that? thats not how it works. It depnds on the context and it also depends on the person itself

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 8:00 pm on May 20, 2002
WHite people have opressed every ethnic group on earth. They haven't earned the right to use the word[hr]For what it's worth, white people from Europe were enslaved by brown and black people in Egypt. (Black Nubians were also enslaved by Egyptians.)[hr]Quote: from CheGuevara on 8:15 pm on May 20, 2002
And how the fuck do you know that I'm not Jewish?[hr]Because Shayla fucked you the other day, and she says you're not circumcised. Because you seem to be fluent in Spanish (at least it seems that way to me, but from my point of view even the Taco Bell Chihuahua is fluent in Spanish), which means you're either Hispanic yourself, in which case you're probably not Jewish, or you focus on Spanish class a lot, when we all know that Jews focus on Math class so that they'll do well in AP Economics and have a dandy time stealing they goyem's money. But wait . . . he's an excellent complainer! So he might be Jewish after all! CheG, why don't you be a mensch and tell us? The suspense is killing me! Will I see you at Temple next Saturday or not? (In all seriousness, I don't think CheG is a member of the Jewish religion because of the attitude he displayed toward Wicca in a thread a while back. It made me think that he's probably one of those hard-liners who wants to turn all synagogues into bread line headquarters and have all statues of Jesus or the Buddha re-molded into statues of Lenin. So Lindsay's vote is officially no: I don't think CheG is a Jew. Also, a Jew probably wouldn't use the term "Jewish lobby". It makes the Jews say "blech!" But who knows, maybe he is. I've seen blond-haired, blue-eyed Jews before, and this would surprise me a lot less than that did.)[hr]Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 8:31 pm on May 20, 2002
a black person agreeing to use the word only further distenguishes themself from the rest of the world and spawns more racism, go ahead and develope and have your own culture, but there is no need to label it[hr]Over-analyze things much? Your intentions are good, but I can't tell from your post whether you realize that when a black person uses the word "nigger" (and I'm speaking out of semi-first-hand experience here, since I live with four black people in a black neighborhood) they're not using it to make a political statement about how they're turning racism around, as some people might suggest. They're also not using it as a cry for help in the form of "oh, I'm so oppressed!" as some other people might suggest. It's just a trend. Maybe it's the kind of trend that will be here for a while, but it's rarely ever used as some kind of social statement. No one calls their black friends "nigger" to free the chains that bind. They call their friends "nigger" because they heard it in a song, or because their other friends use the word. It's a lot like the Abercrombie trend that's sweeping the suburbs: There is no rational explanation. If Ice Cube uses the word "buttmunch" while talking to the latest Christ Tucker replacement in the third Friday sequel, if Chris Rock uses the word "buttmunch", if all the cool kids call their friends "buttmunch" and if the latest one-hit-wonder rapper calls his producer a "buttmunch", I think we all know the next word that black people will be using. My point is: don't think about this too much. Why did people buy pet rocks, huh? Because all their friends did it. The same thing is happening here. Perhaps the people who started the trend had some social agenda, but at this point there is none.

Peace out, my buttmunches,
Lindsay

[CheGuevara]

Hahaha, if you really want to find out my ethnicity, you can come up here to Hopewell, NJ and find out. However, you probably won't even be able to figure it out then, because anyone who's ever made a guess aloud concerning my ethnicity has gotten it wrong, so....

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 2:04 am on May 21, 2002
Hahaha, if you really want to find out my ethnicity, you can come up here to Hopewell, NJ and find out. However, you probably won't even be able to figure it out then, because anyone who's ever made a guess aloud concerning my ethnicity has gotten it wrong, so....You should start a gameshow called "Guess CheG's Ethnicity". If Hopewell is anywhere near Atlantic City, you could hold it there on the Miss America stage.

Lindsay

[Edelweiss]

Again some thoughts concerning your "jewish lobby" accusation, CG: A lobby always makes pressure work for their own good and advantage. So you are indicating that reuben or lindsay have any personal advantage by pointing me to anti-semitism incidents. So what do you think than, CG? Are they cloaking the worlwide Jewish conspracy, or what??? Maybe they are Mossad agents? You are hopefully not thinking that. So why do you think they are contacting me anyway? The truth is that they just feel deeply hurted by racist comments against them like yuri did. And yes, I'm taking it very serious when an anti-zionist Jew is contacting me with anti-semitism issues. What's so wrong with hat, CG?

[Anarcho]

Also, from what I understand, Germany has some rather strict interpretations of Anti-Semitism as it is applied to all media, including the Internet.

Malte, if he is hosting this forum from a German ISP, could get in a lot of trouble.

On a side note, Malte you have mail.

[Edelweiss]

Yes, if it gets too racist I could get trouble and I could get complains because of "Volksverhetzung" (public sedition). But we don't have particular laws against anti-semitism.

[I Will Deny You]

Germany's free speech laws are way too strict. For example, isn't it illegal to say (or at least print) that the Chancellor dyed his hair?

The Chancellor dyed his hair! The Chancellor dyed his hair!
Lindsay

[Edelweiss]

It's not illegal to say that as a private person, but he forced a press agency to withdraw a report which claims that he has dyed hair. Yes, it's ridiculous. But I guess that could happen in the US too.

[RedRevolutionary87]

ok heres the deal, i understand the word nigger has become a trend, so why cant white people join the trend? see thats what i mean, these labels only split the world apart not bring us close together...i dotn want to be a second class citizen just cuz im white! lol i kno it sounds fucked but its tru...i mean im a yugoslavian white guy!!! i dont think i have a single relative that has exploited anyone because of race!!! so please why not just cut the stupid stereotypes, we really dont need them!!

your fellow human, and proud citizen of earth
dotn let borders lock you down.

[Menshevik]

This isn't just some trend. This all started because of centuries of hatred. Just because you think we should all get along doesn't mean you have a right to say it. It's the same thing as calling a gay person a faggot to their face; it just isn't right.

[Reuben]

Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 9:03 pm on May 21, 2002
ok heres the deal, i understand the word nigger has become a trend, so why cant white people join the trend? see thats what i mean, these labels only split the world apart not bring us close together...i dotn want to be a second class citizen just cuz im white! lol i kno it sounds fucked but its tru...i mean im a yugoslavian white guy!!! i dont think i have a single relative that has exploited anyone because of race!!! so please why not just cut the stupid stereotypes, we really dont need them!!

your fellow human, and proud citizen of earth
dotn let borders lock you down.


comrade, as a fellow whitey I feel ithat there is very little chance of you being made a second class citizen for being white

[Fabi]

i dont know about germany being too strict, although i agree that the dyed hair thing is extremely stupid...

at least we dont have crazy parents burning harry potter and huck finn, if you know what i mean... or 'abstinence only' campaigns...

but maybe, as always, i am just stupid...

[Field Marshal]

Fuck people who make up this kind of shit. There is racism, and there is anti-semitism. Why are there two seperate catagories, or these stupid exceptions we make. When a black person or jewish person is harrassed in any form, it's a fucking hate crime. But if a white person is beaten up by 4 black guys then it's just another crime. Explain these and more of the things like this.

[Lefty]

well field marshal, people are stupid. it explains it all, doesnt it?

damn jews anyways... :-) j/k

[Reuben]

that aint funny...

still its good to see you around again, havent seen you post for a while

[FtWfTn]

maybe its me butthe point ofthis is in thecenterand everyone is circling around it

[Smoking Frog II]

Ok, so they might make a big deal about being rascially abused, but how'd you like it if fascists did this stuff to you.

Who cares what people are like. Everyone's a person, right??? [CENSORED] citizenship [CENSORED] class.

Some of these people have lost family members to racsists.
Sorry but i'm disgraced.

I'm sorry. but that wasn't called for. I think...
SMOKING FROG II

[MagnusVolk]

Quote: from El Che on 7:36 pm on May 17, 2002
Racists should be pruged by a nice witch hunt. They should all be banned they are worse then the Capitalists. Fuck all of u prejudiced mother+++


I would guess that the best way to destroy the 'racists' and rid society of 'racist' ideas, would be to point out their error of facts and reasoning.

Would you not agree?

http://www.commonsenseclub.com/racism.html

(Edited by MagnusVolk at 7:00 pm on May 22, 2002)

[Moskitto]

I know, we should build a giant microwave oven that fits say, 20,000 people. Then we put all the nazis in it. Then we put it on full power and run it for 2 minutes, well 5 to be safe. Then we tip them into a Waste-Energy incinerator and we have a source of electricity. And all the dead nazis won't be taking up electricity or food. Everyone wins.

[Smoking Frog II]

yes thats right. let's power new york for 24 hours.

No more running out of sugar, comrades

[Well in doubt]

Fuck straight Jews control the world. Up yours BananaKing.

[Reuben]

I cant work out whether you are saying jew control the world, or whether your saying they dont?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 1:04 am on May 21, 2002
im white and i personaly take offense to that, you have generelized and even been racist towards me. first off nigger is a racist term developed by white slave owners, and racists, by using it, even if you are black you are contributing to the racism.

remember jews are white too, dotn let colour stand in the way of peace.



I said whites have opressed every ethnic group on Earth and I'm right. Do you know why?

BECAUSE AND ETHNIC GROUP ISN'T THE SAME AS A RACE

Hell white people have opressed Jews, i.e. Germans opressed Jewish people.

The white race has opressed every ethnic group on earth, however not every white ethnic group has.

I mean white as in the people that opressed every ethnic group was white cuz white people opressed other white people cuz they weren't of the same ethnicity.

Ethnicity and race are two different things

[joseph K]

SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC, PERHAPS, BUT WHAT JUSTIFIES THE CLAIM THAT HATE IS A STRONGER EMOTION THAN LOVE? surely nobody believes that hate can ever create a better world, the one we all(hopefully) strive for. revolution is not about giving power to a class, but giving a chance to humanity. the only way to initiate the revolution is by love and compassion to all humanity, be they jewish, christian, conservative or whatever else.
Maybe im slow or something but is there a reason why jews were selcted to illistrate the greed of national identity( is that what is being represented?) Im a tad confused.

[RedRevolutionary87]

who cares! put the past behind you, we will never make a better society if peolpe hold on to historical hatered, we are a human race! not a white, black, yellow, or purple race! get rid of your old fashioned stereo types, humans have equaly abused eachother throughout history, yet it has alsways been because theyre masters told them who to hate, lets get rid of our own elite, and put the past behind us, and make a better future...

[yuriandropov]

excellent statement redrevolutionary87! different ethnic groups have hated each other all this time because there masters (the bourgeoisie) have told them too! once we get rid of the masters, we will get rid of the hate! this is what i have been trying to say from day 1! but it has been taken the wrong way by people as me being an anti-semite stalinist. i singled out judaism because it appears that there masters, more than most, tell the jewish people who to hate (ie palastinians-zionism). but it is not just jews, it is most religions and ethnic leaders. this is why i am against ethnic organisations and organised religion. can you understand that now?
do away with the elite, and do away with racism. IMO, its that simple.

its like my signiture says, workers of the world (of ALL countries) unite!

(Edited by yuriandropov at 8:34 pm on May 26, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 5:26 pm on May 26, 2002
who cares! put the past behind you, we will never make a better society if peolpe hold on to historical hatered, we are a human race! not a white, black, yellow, or purple race! get rid of your old fashioned stereo types, humans have equaly abused eachother throughout history, yet it has alsways been because theyre masters told them who to hate, lets get rid of our own elite, and put the past behind us, and make a better future...




You may be right that we need to stop all the race bullshit

However what the hell are you talking about? We have not abused each other equally. Look the fuck around you Black people aint exactly on top. can tell you this I bet you've never seen a country of white slaves and black masters.

I don't want stereotypes to exist but this I will never let go of: Slavery is unforgivable. I will never just forget about slavery the wound is far to deep.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from yuriandropov on 8:33 pm on May 26, 2002
excellent statement redrevolutionary87! different ethnic groups have hated each other all this time because there masters (the bourgeoisie) have told them too! once we get rid of the masters, we will get rid of the hate! this is what i have been trying to say from day 1! but it has been taken the wrong way by people as me being an anti-semite stalinist. i singled out judaism because it appears that there masters, more than most, tell the jewish people who to hate (ie palastinians-zionism). but it is not just jews, it is most religions and ethnic leaders. this is why i am against ethnic organisations and organised religion. can you understand that now?
do away with the elite, and do away with racism. IMO, its that simple.

its like my signiture says, workers of the world (of ALL countries) unite!

(Edited by yuriandropov at 8:34 pm on May 26, 2002)


get rid of racism? Do you really think its that damn simple? There are people out there who hate me, they don't even know me and they hate me because I'm black. Blacks still aren't equal in the US and neither are any other minorities.

Do you think people in this country are going to love someone who is black/puerto rican? I'm willing to be that guy in the white sheet in mask isn't really welcoming me with open arms.

[yuriandropov]

do i think its that simple? yes! obvioulsy not all racism, but it will definatly help in the long run.
the soviet union consisted of many different ethnic groups and after the 1917 revolution, racism fell massivly! before this, the tsarists had always blamed russias problems on chechens or kazhaks or whoever. after the bolsheviks took power, racism basically dissapeared. all races were treated equally, as the old soviet saing goes, "15 republics, 15 sisters". the only group that was really persecuted was the jews because they did not want to be a part of the multi-racial soviet union. they wanted to keep to themselves and there leaders were spouting the sort of non-sense that bougeois racists use to divide the prolateriat.
eliminating the elite is the first step towards eliminating racism.

[RedRevolutionary87]

ok let me put it this way, the poor white man never had any slaves, if you want to get ma at anytone because of slavery it is the rich elite, also the ethiopians had white slaves, so did the egyptians, and babylonians...everyoen has abused equaly i assure you, and never has the poor man abused anyone

[Reuben]

Yuriandropov, as usualyou are talking crap. Even if as you say, most of the jews wished to keep themselvesd to themselves (whi ch is not true) this does not legitimise the wholesale persecution of jews that went on in the form of purges against jews particularly cultural leaders (including stalinists purged for their ethnic background). Regardless of the behaviour of however many jews, the treatment of jews in Russia was an indictment of the Soviet Union.

IN FACT you will find that many jews were LESS keen on seperation than lenin and Stalin. Lenin and Stalin argued that cultural emancipation could be could be acheived through giving each ethnic group their own ethnically specdific state. THE BUND on the other argued against this, arguing instead for National cutural autonomy, this was the belief that ethnic minorites and their languages etc. should be supported but not in the TERRITORIAL sense promoted by Stalin and Lenin.

[Lardlad95]

PLease Red. are you seriously saying that the mass rape of my race is equal to a few guys in Ethiopia? That was not something that regularly happened. 80,000,000 total Africans were slaves thats the size of some countries.

Not just in the UNited States but still. Its not like those poor white people liked black people because if they could have had slaves they would have

[Reuben]

Lardlad, I agree that it is easier for white anglo saxons to simply put their history behind them, yet no ethnic group whites included can be talked about as one homogenous group.

Furthermore, there are a number of white ethnic minorities who have also suffered terrible atrocities under european governments. Redrevolutionary is from one such group and so am I.

[Reuben]

Just to clarify I dont agree with red that we should necessarily simply forgt ouur ethnic backgrounds

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Reuben on 11:15 am on May 29, 2002
Lardlad, I agree that it is easier for white anglo saxons to simply put their history behind them, yet no ethnic group whites included can be talked about as one homogenous group.

Furthermore, there are a number of white ethnic minorities who have also suffered terrible atrocities under european governments. Redrevolutionary is from one such group and so am I.




I never said white ethnic groups weren't opressed. In fact I even said that some were

Like I said ethnic groups are different from Ethnicity. THere for whites have opressed every ethnic group on Earth including other white people

[Fabi]

so what? you could argue that the first humans came from south africa, leading to the conclusion that in the end we should just look at that ethnical background and say 'all oppression came from people whose ancestors were black'.... which i think would be totally unimportant and ridiculous...

i am so sick of people telling ME i have to feel guilty for what my GRANDgrandparents or some other white guy did 55-400 YEARS AGO. am so sick of people telling me i should feel guilty for what the nazis did OVER 50 YEARS AGO.
and YOU might suffer under racism NOW, but you didnt have to go through slavery, did you??? i think YOUR situation therefore sucks, and has to be improved. but we can only try to learn from the past, not carry it on OUR shoulders...

i personally live NOW, and altough i am conscious about my 'ethnic' past, i dont think it is anything anyone could blame me for. i dont care about whether someone is jewish, black, white, christian, german, american, young, old.... but often I feel that i am being discriminated because I am a WHITE GERMAN HETEROSEXUAL MALE... all of which make you the typical 'asshole' kind of person. come on.. it's not my fault..

(and i know that you never said it was... ;))

(Edited by Fabi at 4:00 pm on May 29, 2002)

[Reuben]

Fabi your completely right.

GFuilt by association is ridiculous idea. You have no reason to feel guilty for being eityher white or german. I do not feel personally guilty as a result of the atrocities being committed in occuppied palestine.

Guilt by associatoin sucks.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Fabi on 3:57 pm on May 29, 2002
so what? you could argue that the first humans came from south africa, leading to the conclusion that in the end we should just look at that ethnical background and say 'all oppression came from people whose ancestors were black'.... which i think would be totally unimportant and ridiculous...

i am so sick of people telling ME i have to feel guilty for what my GRANDgrandparents or some other white guy did 55-400 YEARS AGO. am so sick of people telling me i should feel guilty for what the nazis did OVER 50 YEARS AGO.
and YOU might suffer under racism NOW, but you didnt have to go through slavery, did you??? i think YOUR situation therefore sucks, and has to be improved. but we can only try to learn from the past, not carry it on OUR shoulders...

i personally live NOW, and altough i am conscious about my 'ethnic' past, i dont think it is anything anyone could blame me for. i dont care about whether someone is jewish, black, white, christian, german, american, young, old.... but often I feel that i am being discriminated because I am a WHITE GERMAN HETEROSEXUAL MALE... all of which make you the typical 'asshole' kind of person. come on.. it's not my fault..

(and i know that you never said it was... ;))

(Edited by Fabi at 4:00 pm on May 29, 2002)


Did I point my finger at you? Did I say you put my ancestors in slavery? No I said that the white race, at some point has opressed every ethnic group. Your race did not you as a person.

How ever the white race still keeps minorities down. Am I saying its your fault? No, but I am saying it isn't a black man on top trying to keep everyone else down. And his black friends aren't their with him

[Fabi]

"come on.. it's not my fault..

(and i know that you never said it was... ) "


i suspected that my post sound as if you had accused me of being responsible... but, as you can also see in the quote, i am aware that you didnt accuse me of anything.
however, i bet that there are racist/antisemitic/homophobic blacks, too, so i dont think it is necessarily 'whites' who are the only ones doing it.


back to the original topic title: THOSE DAMN GREEDY JEWS.... well... i think it is a legitimate thing to say, as long as you are only angry about the greedy jews, not the jews in general. even then, though, it has sort of a bitter after-taste if you know what i mean.

one 'minority' that has always been oppressed (is it 'pp' or only 'p'?) is the youth and children, meaning everyone pretty much under age of eighteen.
that group cant vote, isnt interested in politics... so they make a good target... it's always those DAMN DRUG-ADDICTED PREGNANT TEENAGERS that are the problem.... ;) .. yeah right... at least the media sometimes surely make it look like it...

or what do you think?