wheres the internatinale gone?

[yuriandropov]

a point well proved to myself. that no-one really cares about the working class on this board. i post the two most influential pieces of communist music ever, the intetnationale and the soviet national anthem (in russian because it is very hard to translate) and all i get is 'this is rubbish' 'ban him!'. maybe you should look at what you really beleive in and fuck of to the social democrat (or social facist) party and leave communism to people who know what is about.

[PaulDavidHewson]

grow up kiddie, this board is about debating socialisme vs. Capitalisme.

Nowhere does this board say: Yuri's propoganda site!!


So get your act togheter and join the debates and leave that mindless nonsense at home or on another board.

[yuriandropov]

kiddie!!!! i am probobly one of the oldest members here. i turn 40 later on this year!! and its not propaganda, you shouldn't even need propaganda if you were a true socialist.

[libereco]

i think i still got the internationale in about 3-4 versions (russian, german, english...) somewhere on my PC. I downloaded them to check it out sometime...

I don't give a shit about any national anthem...

[ID2002]

I am a true socialist.
"I walk the walk, and I talk the talk"

Yuri..be mindful of what you post on this board. It may come back to haunt you someday. Some of your posts are having adverse reactions*

"I do not support hatred....and those who promote hatred"


(Edited by ID2002 at 6:22 pm on May 15, 2002)

[RedCeltic]

YURI: The problem wasn't that you posted the International (which has been posted many times on this website and is in the music section)

The problem is that when you posted it, all anyone saw where numbers. The International has been printed on the internet in diffrent langueges, including English.


The International

Arise ye workers from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of can't.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth the old tradition
And spurn the dust to win the prize. No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.
No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will out with their booty
And give to all a happier lot.
Each at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.



(Edited by RedCeltic at 12:29 pm on May 15, 2002)

[Edelweiss]

The problem is that when you posted it, all anyone saw where numbers. The International has been printed on the internet in diffrent langueges, including English.


Exactly, noone has a problem here with the Internationale. I deleted the hread because for the most it was nothing more than cryptic numbers and letters.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from yuriandropov on 9:12 am on May 15, 2002
a point well proved to myself. that no-one really cares about the working class on this board. i post the two most influential pieces of communist music ever, the intetnationale and the soviet national anthem (in russian because it is very hard to translate) and all i get is 'this is rubbish' 'ban him!'. maybe you should look at what you really beleive in and fuck of to the social democrat (or social facist) party and leave communism to people who know what is about.
What the hell do two songs have to do with caring about the working class? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that those are very important pieces of music, but some people would prefer to talk about real issues, rather than a song that's already been posted on this board anyway.

[yuriandropov]

the numbers came up because the site does not recognise russian cyrillic letters. it wasn't even the internationale, it was just some shit i put after i'd drank too much and wanted to see the reaction. the reaction i got was expected. there are very few on this site who actually care for the working class. thats the opinion i have come too. however, i could be wrong. though i've still received no e-mail about my offer i gave yesterday.

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from yuriandropov on 1:05 pm on May 15, 2002
the numbers came up because the site does not recognise russian cyrillic letters. it wasn't even the internationale, it was just some shit i put after i'd drank too much and wanted to see the reaction. the reaction i got was expected. there are very few on this site who actually care for the working class. thats the opinion i have come too. however, i could be wrong. though i've still received no e-mail about my offer i gave yesterday.

Because I can't read Russian I don't care about the working class?

I work as a plumber and put myself through school! But just because I'm not Russian, I don't care about the worker... what rubbish.


Edit: what offer?

(Edited by RedCeltic at 1:13 pm on May 15, 2002)

[yuriandropov]

i wasn't talking about you RC. i did say, 'there are very few' i didn't say everyone. you seem to have concern for the communist cause but there are many who simply label themselves leftist for the wrong reasons. in fact, they are liberals. if you are pro black, pro jew, pro life, anti-death penalty, pro-gay rights, feminist etc. IMO you are a liberal. communism doesn't even recognise such things as skin colour and sex, it only recognises class. only once comunism had been achieved, can the issues i wrote above be addressed.

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from yuriandropov on 1:17 pm on May 15, 2002
i wasn't talking about you RC. i did say, 'there are very few' i didn't say everyone. you seem to have concern for the communist cause but there are many who simply label themselves leftist for the wrong reasons. in fact, they are liberals. if you are pro black, pro jew, pro life, anti-death penalty, pro-gay rights, feminist etc. IMO you are a liberal. communism doesn't even recognise such things as skin colour and sex, it only recognises class. only once comunism had been achieved, can the issues i wrote above be addressed.

Hmmm I'm interested in your outlook on this Yuri.. I don't quite agree with you, however I see you have a point.

I define myself as a marxist socialist, and believe in fighting for the worker.

However who do you define as a worker? You come from a diffrent nation than I do, so perhaps there is good reason for your views.

Well, here in America, the worker is male and female. Therefore I believe in woman's rights and feminist issues that affect working women.

Here in America, the worker is both black, white, and yes even Jew.

Here in America, the people most likely to be put on death row and be put to death are not the rich, but the poor, who are overwelmingly black.

To be focused on one or several of these issues, is not seeing the big picture. To blame it on anything but the root cause (capitalism) is to be a liberal.

A Liberal thinks s/he can make things better for any of these groups within the capitalist system. I agree with many of the issues the green party in the US fight on, however I think they are misguided in not rooting out the cause of envoromental devistation.

I fundementaly believe in many of the causes of these specal interist groups, however I fundementaly believe that their goals can only truly be met by uniting together against the common foe, capitalism.

[Nateddi]

Red
Speaking about women, they had the right to participate in government in Russia long before they could in the US. Lenin even wrote a book about the emancipation of women.

Þðèé
In America, Red is correct, there are Jews, Blacks, Women, and many other minorities which make up the working class. I don't consider Red as a traitor to Marxism, you shouldn't either. The United States has a prominent history, even recent history (as well as the present to a very noticible extent) of racism at its extremes, and even currently, minorities make up the bottom of our economic ladder, mostly as a result of racism. Minorities are in the working class; go find one black CEO of his own business, and I will find 100,000 who are proletarians for a white man's business.

There is nothing wrong with any race, all workers are equal, nevertheless, when you mix a backstabing system of capitalism with different races, the majority (white) will breed hatred toward the "inferior" people (minorities), and this is why they are at the bottom of the ranks. This is just how we are, but don't blame me, it was the imperialist greed of pre-industrial capitalism which brought in minorities and natives to the inferior ranks of our society.

(Edited by Nateddi at 3:03 am on May 16, 2002)

[RedCeltic]

Nateddi: I do realize this, and was only explaining my point of view as an American in New York. The Socialist movement in the United States has long been connected with the feminist movement. It's also why even today, right wing groups think supporting feminist issues is supporting socialism.

[PunkRawker677]

I think that Yuri was trying to say that there is no need to look at particulars. We shouldnt differentiate between black and white, man and women. We are all the same. The working class is the working class, despite the colour of your skin, and your gender. I believe he was addressing the issue on a broader level. By making the working class one object, with all races, religions, colors, and genders part of this group completly equal. I could be wrong, let me know Yuri.

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from PunkRawker677 on 10:32 pm on May 15, 2002
I think that Yuri was trying to say that there is no need to look at particulars. We shouldnt differentiate between black and white, man and women. We are all the same. The working class is the working class, despite the colour of your skin, and your gender. I believe he was addressing the issue on a broader level. By making the working class one object, with all races, religions, colors, and genders part of this group completly equal. I could be wrong, let me know Yuri.


That's just how I see it. One can't look at what Yuri is saying with too narrow of a focus.

[yuriandropov]

thank you punkrawker677, thats exactly what i was saying. although marx was verging on being a racist, he felt when it all came down to it, the working class is the working class the world over.
people (especially facists) get sidetracked with such things as colour. if the whole prolaterat, all across the world united, there is nothing that could stop it.
RC, i define the workers as one of three groups. the prolaterat (skilled or manuel laborers), the intelligencia (office workers/beraucrats), and the peasentry (farm workers). anyone who fits into those catogories is working class.
the whole point i'm trying to make is that communism must be a populist movement. for someone living in poverty in smolensk, the black civil rights movment simply doesn't concern him. for a young black youth living in the bronx, gay rights, don't concern him. the working class hears people keep going on about these things and gets dissulusioned. the working class wants to hear what communism is going to do for the working class. once bouguas exploitation stops for the prolaterat, then we can address other social issues.

[RedCeltic]

I like what you are saying Yuri. I think many people here (myself included many times) are looking at specific details, rather than the whole situation.

[Ernest Everhard]

Yuri goes a long way to prove why marxist class analysist fails. Rather than process reality and adopt a system that explains for it, people with marxist tendencies like to have reality fit into their system. Race and sex differences, wether we like them or not, are real. I'm not implying that their existance implies superiority, all I'm saying is that they exist. Are they materially determined, maybe, maybe not completely, in any case if people choose to define themselves in certain ways, who are you to say that they are wrong. Who are you to choose indentities? You see, I think you've never noticed these problems with marxism. You seem to think that capitalism defines you by what you own. ON the contrary, it is the materialism that is inherent in marxism that fosters a system that suppresses what it considers to be artificial facets of individuality, such as race and sex and ethnicity, and defines you only by your possessions. On the contrary, in capitalism, what you own is simply one of many ways to express your individuality. Hell, you don't even have to express it through consumer choices.

[yuriandropov]

i did say the working class is the working class the world over, but that doesn't mean i think we should all live in one big communal multi culteral society or that there aren't difference between ethnic groups. it just means the interests of the working class are the same. an end to exploitation, no matter what colour you are.