Ireland's Economy

[RedStarOverChina]

Does anyone have an Marxist analysis of Southen Ireland's economic miracle?

Some research tips is also welcomed.

[PRC-UTE]

Lowest corporate tax rate in Europe (I read somewhere) led to investment from the USA and the EU.

[UndergroundConnexion]

First of there is no "Southern Ireland " , it is called Ireland .

But to add some content :
There is what some called an "economic boost" .. however like usual this is only enjoyed by the most priviliged. 1/3 of Ireland I believe still lives under poverty...

[PRC-UTE]

First of there is no "Southern Ireland " , it is called Ireland .

But to add some content :
There is what some called an "economic boost" .. however like usual this is only enjoyed by the most priviliged. 1/3 of Ireland I believe still lives under poverty...

I think he is trying to distinguish between the 26c state and the 6c state, as both have experienced very different economic situations recently.

[spartan]

But to add some content :
There is what some called an "economic boost" .. however like usual this is only enjoyed by the most priviliged. 1/3 of Ireland I believe still lives under poverty...

Yeah i agree.

What constitutes an economic boom nowadays is the rich getting more richer and the poor being less likely to complain about it because they want to be richer as well.

[Coggeh]

First of there is no "Southern Ireland " , it is called Ireland .

But to add some content :
There is what some called an "economic boost" .. however like usual this is only enjoyed by the most privileged. 1/3 of Ireland I believe still lives under poverty...
Extremely unlikely , but by no means has it been a fairy tale and the gloom of the recession that looms is very frightening for a very unstable economy which we have , our health system is in tatters and their going to have to make even more cuts were now following the American privatization agenda and with the housing boom over and done with their is to be mass job losses unemployment rising very fast every day . Not looking good .

[RedStarOverChina]

I sort of wanted to dig deeper.

How was rapid capital accumulation on the part of Ireland possible when the economy was so dominated by foreign capital?

[Philosophical Materialist]

I sort of wanted to dig deeper.

How was rapid capital accumulation on the part of Ireland possible when the economy was so dominated by foreign capital?

Capital accumulation on behalf of Ireland's upper class has been due to the foreign capital investment. The Irish finance sector has helped to enrich the indigenous upper class and bourgeois class, who benefited from capital investment and using it for the exploitation of the Irish working class.

Most of the profit goes back the transnational companies, but the local bourgeoisie are still rewarded for their part in the exploitation of the working class.

Low corporate tax rates means a large amount of currency flows through the country on the understanding that the government does not touch it and not try to redistribute it to the working class. It gives the impression of a wealthy country, but this money is only available for utilisation by the wealthiest.

[gilhyle]

This question is a tall order. The Irish economy needs to be analysed at a variety of different levels. Analysing it is actually a very important exercise for Marxists because Ireland is probably the one country in the world (followed closely by Singapore, but not quite) which has made the transition from colonial to imperialist status.

How it did it is a combination of 1) the financing of the resolution of the land question in Ireland by the British State, 2) the castration of the Irish Labour movement by a confessional state 3) the protection of the banking sector by the nationalist movement 4) EU subsidies and, most importantly, the end of protectionism and the development of globalisation.

What needs to be explained is how a national bourgeoisie profits (mainly in the sphere of circulation) from industrial production owned by foreign capitalists. This phenomenon is not unknown. There are small countries on the continent of Europe that achieve the same thing. But the way it has happened in Ireland is particularly extreme.

Fascinating question - in miniature, it is the question of our times.

[poop transfusion]

try wikipedia search: Index of Economic Freedom really quick (can't post a link). they are super capitalist, more so than any european country, up there with america, N.Z., australia, canada.

the IRA always used economic warfare in ireland to prevent investment from outside, and economic warfare against britain itself (millions of dollars of damages because of bombing campaigns)
of course that's over now.

off topic, but, what do you guys think of the INLA? used to be openly stalinist, now not so much. but they haven't yet agreed to lay down arms.

[Die Neue Zeit]

This question is a tall order. The Irish economy needs to be analysed at a variety of different levels. Analysing it is actually a very important exercise for Marxists because Ireland is probably the one country in the world (followed closely by Singapore, but not quite) which has made the transition from colonial to imperialist status.

Um, considering where Vaginal_Residue and I are, I would disagree. :p

Furthermore, where we are has made an even BIGGER transition from a British "dominion" under the American "manifest destiny" shadow next door to an imperialist country. :D

[PRC-UTE]

Um, considering where Vaginal_Residue and I are, I would disagree. :p

Furthermore, where are are has made an even BIGGER transition from a British "dominion" under the American "manifest destiny" shadow to an imperialist country. :D

LOL, good point. However it took quite a bit more time for the USA to make the transition than Ireland!

I wonder what "Orthodox" Marxists and other stagist comrades make of the fact that the USA skipped a few stages on its way to modern capitalism...

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ I was actually referring to "our home and native land" ( :glare: ) in terms of the national anthem. And that is NOT the United States (although the US is a valid case, too).

Now, in terms of the US, I believe it's proper to look at the history of the US between independence and the civil war. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by the civil war one could make a good case that the US was an imperialist country.

[PRC-UTE]

^^^ I was actually referring to "our home and native land" ( :glare: ) in terms of the national anthem. And that is NOT the United States (although the US is a valid case, too).

Now, in terms of the US, I believe it's proper to look at the history of the US between independence and the civil war. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by the civil war one could make a good case that the US was an imperialist country.

Ah right, didn't realise you were Canadian.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ I hope you didn't take my :glare: smilie too seriously. That was a jab at Canadian nationalism (notwithstanding the cool hockey and curling, though :p ).

In any event, any thoughts on the development of Canada and the US? [I would say that Ireland would be better compared with Canada than with the US, because both countries are still under the shadow of other imperialist countries.]

[gilhyle]

Well, by my reckoning Canada and the US were never colonies of a capitalist imperialist power.....their cases are interesting but different. Ireland was a semi colonial country in the 20th century. A good marxist history of Canada has (as far as I know) still to be written....but I would deny that its relations with imperialism were those of the exploited colony af the develoment of imperialism. In essence the difference lies in the sparsity of the aboriginal populations and the consequential possibility of developing a capitalist society without the requirement to overcome feudal land relations. While the story is complex, this was not the case in Ireland.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Obviously you haven't read about the Hudson's Bay Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson's_Bay_Company). ;)

I do suppose, however, that Canada's colonial history coincided with the early years of capitalism as a whole. Would HBC's operations not qualify more as being mercantilist?

[Connolly]

Here are some statistics relating to Ireland and of our economic miracle.

If Ireland is the capitalist success story rags like the economist bragg about, others must be hell holes.


Economic:

> 750,000 people still live in households with incomes below the poverty line.
> That is 17% of the total population.
> 30% of all households at risk of poverty are headed by a person with a job.
> 50% of all households at risk of poverty are headed by a person outside the labour force (elderly, disability, ill, or in a caring position).

> 10% of the population in 2005 got 3.2% of all income.
> 24.4% went to the richest 10%.

> For 20 years, the at risk of poverty has been between 16 & 20%.
> 1994 to 2005 it grew from 15.5% to 22%.

> Ireland has 30,000 millionaires, not including the value of their homes.
> 750,000 live on survival incomes of an average of 11,000E for single adults, 24,000E for 2 adults and 2 children.

> 22% of the population live on less than 164E per adult and 64E per child per week as of 2004.

> 1% of the Irish population own assets estimated to be worth 100 billion, not including their residential properties. That is, 43400 people with combined assets worth 100 billion.
> That works out to be an average of roughly 23,000,000 each, of this 1%.
> The wealth of the average Irish household stands at 196,000 Euro as of 2006.

> The top 1% of the population holds 20% of the wealth.
> The top 2% of the population holds 30% of the wealth.
> The top 5% of the population holds 40% of the wealth.
> These statistics include housing wealth.

> The following exclude housing wealth.
> 1% of the population accounts for 34% of financial wealth.

> It is expected that the assets of the top 1% will reach 133 billion by 2010. And by 2015, 216 billion.



Homelessness:

> 55 homeless people died in the care of the Simon Community in 2006.
> 1/10th of homeless people are under the care of the Simon Community.
> 42 is the average age of those who died, compared to 78 for the national average.
> 3,346 are homeless or at risk of homelessness according to the Simon Community.
> 2,399 is what the State claims.

> 22% who sleep rough have mental health issues.
> 1/12th have a third level degree.

> 90% have a physical health complaint.
> 48% reported concerns regarding their mental health.
> 76% have alcohol problems.
> 64% have used illicit drugs.


> 1989 had 1,491 homeless when the country was much poorer.
> 2002 had 5,581 homeless - at the height of the "Celtic Tiger".


Health:

> 5,400 roughly, people die every year in the Republic every year of physical and mental illness, directly brought on by inequality and deprivation.

> Death from all medical causes were 2 to 3 times higher in the lowest occupational class than that of the highest.

> 120% higher deathrates for circulatory diseases.
> 100% higher deathrates for Cancer.
> Over 200% higher deathrates for respiratory diseases.
> Over 370% higher for infectious and parasitic diseases.
> Over 300% higher deathrates for tuberculosis.
> Over 110% higher deathreates for neoplasms.
> 230% higher deathrates for malignant neoplasms of the oesophgus.
> 280% higher deathrates for malignant neoplasms of the larynx, tracheam bronchus and lung.
> 230% higher for endocerine, nutritional and metabolic diseases.
> 230% higher for diabetes mellitus.

> 360% higher deathrates for mental and behavioural disorders.
> 280% higher deathrates for alcohol abuse.
> 590% higher deathrate from drug dependence and toxic mania.
> 340% higher deathrates for chronic lower respiratory diseases.
> 200% higher deathrates from pneumonia.
> 340% higher deathrates for stomach ulcers.
> 170% higher deathrates from chronic liver disease.

> Suicide rates are 5 times higher amongst the lowest socio-economic classes.
> Hostpitalisation rates are 6 times higher for mental illness amongst the lowest socio-economic classes.


Travellers:

> Live on average 11 years younger than that of the settled population.
> Men live 9.9 years less than settled men on average.
> Woman 11.9 years less than settled woman.

> 51% of Traveller children make it through the Junior cert, 94.3% for the settled community.
> In 2002, it was estimated that 16 travellers went to third level education.
> 80% of the adult population are illiterate.

> Nearly 1000 travellers still live along the roadside.
> 42% of travellers are under 15 years of age.
> 3.3% are over the age of 65, compared to 11.1% of the general population.
> 63% are under the age of 25, compared to 37% of the settled community.
> 18 is the average traveller age, compared to 32 for the settled community.

> 50% of all travellers live in 4 counties.
> 23% in Dublin.
> 13% in Galway.
> 7% in Cork.
> 6% in Limerick.

> 73% of traveller men are unemployed, compared to 9.4% national average.


Drugs:

> 40% of Irish prisoners inject drugs.
> 21% for the first time in prison.


Crime & Prison:

> 50% of prisoners are under the age of 24.
> 80% are under the age of 35.
> 75% of inmates in Mount Joy Prison come from 6 specific & identifiable area's in Dublin.


Gender Imbalance:

> Irish men work 12 hours more, on average, than Irish woman.

Other:

> 8% of Irish Farmers are under the age of 35.
> 50% increase in reported racist incidents in 2007 in Ireland.

[gilhyle]

You post sets out some of the harsh realities of an advanced capitalist society but in no way alter the fact that Ireland became an imperialist country, collapsed the unemployment rate, enriched many, smashed forced emigration etc etc.