Leftist Movement In the States

[Ultra-Violence]

Ok im making this thread about the movement in the U.S and its problems and hopefully with discusion and sharing of expereinces something good can cmome out this

Ok let me start of by saying ive been protesting this war for some time now about 4 years now and the war has been going on for about five. What ive noticed is that at protest its just the same group of dedicated people who constantly come and make these events possible wich is GOOD IMO. But heres the dilema just this weekend i went to a protest to mark the fith anversary t the iraq war i thouhgt it was goana be our usaul route BUT this is what completly blew my mind instead of the usual route we protested to the Los angeles H.Q of CNN my jaw droped and i give much respect to A.N.S.W.E.R:D. so when i left i was exited you know i didnt expect CNN to air the story but i was hoping the local stations would. To my surprise only one local station aired the story and it was only briefly really. So i feel realy furstated that our message is only heard by so many and really depresing realy.

So my first qeustion to you activist from the states or other parts of the world Are you having the same experiance in other parts of ther world and If so how is your guys media covering it if they cover it at all?

So this brings me to my second Point wich clicked in my head as soon as i saw not even the local stations coverd it and that was the bombing in Time square. The ruling class is making it so that we have to go to extreme lenghts to get our vioce heard even for just a bit. This does not mean i dont acknowlegde that persons accomplishment or condon it either what im trying to get to is that if things keep going the way they are people are goana go to even more extreme mesures even more dangerous ones were inocent people can get hurt.

So here my second question What is your answer to this issue? How is the left goana stand up to the censoring of our vioces with out at the same time alienating the people were fighitng for?

[Red October]

The left, especially the revolutionary left, is screwed right now in America. The best we can do is to keep organizing in our communities. There is no vanguard party or organization that has any leadership with the working class right now and we shouldn't pretend like there is, because it certainly isn't us. We've got to show people that capitalism is shit and there is an alternative. Tons of people understand that capitalism is a horribly flawed and inefficient system, but people don't see any other choice, so we need to spread the ideas around. A good idea is to work with unions. The public sector workers in my town have organized themselves and built a very good union which has many radical members in it. That's usually a good place to start.

[THKO]

we have to do something. it can't continue like that.

[Fedorov]

we have to do something. it can't continue like that.

Well it most likely will in America, conditions, although bad, are not disparaging enough bring in more dissidents. Unless there is a major economic or military disaster people will keep eating the crap media sells them. I don't know how many of us have been to or lived in the South, but I truly think only parts of Africa are as ignorant. As for doing something, well the Times Square bomber did something and look how far we got (rolls eyes).

[Ferryman 5]

The way some of you U.S. comrades talk, you sound like a right bunch of pessimistic spineless wankers. We know this isn't true because of the history of the revolutionary culture and workers struggles. Can you stop talking as though this next fight was over before it has started. The people of this planet are about to get the biggest wake-up call in history and you are going to see just how fast "being determines consciousness".

We have to start wanting the defeat of this vicious and insane system from any quarter that can inflict a blow. All revolutions start in confusion with small actions, why do you talk as though this one is any different.

[Ultra-Violence]

The way some of you U.S. comrades talk, you sound like a right bunch of pessimistic spineless wankers. We know this isn't true because of the history of the revolutionary culture and workers struggles. Can you stop talking as though this next fight was over before it has started. The people of this planet are about to get the biggest wake-up call in history and you are going to see just how fast "being determines consciousness".

We have to start wanting the defeat of this vicious and insane system from any quarter that can inflict a blow. All revolutions start in confusion with small actions, why do you talk as though this one is any different.

#1 FUCK YOU! you dont know me.

secondly it not like we fucking give up or are giving up what im talking about is that the our message aint getting threw prtoest aint working the media even when were at their god dang HQ doesnt even look let alone local station so im asking WHAT CAN WE DO DIFFERENT! thats what im asking obviously the old methods arent working or becoming a bit out dated so im asking for ideas.

and im not waiting for the next Great depresion to hapen im talking about now

[EricTheRed]

Leftism, as far as I can tell, is dead in the US.

The leftists that are in the US need to band together and start a new congress. We need to resolve our historical problems before we even think of trying to build a new movement.

[Fedorov]

Lets not get too emotional here.
Everyone want revolution now but of all countries the US is perhaps one of the least likely to have one. Spreading the word of communism should be a high priority seeing as most people in the US think socialism is lots of military parades and food lines. Maybe I am a nihilist but thats how it is and it seems only thing that can seemingly change this is some sort of disaster or crisis.

[which doctor]

Don't expect news outlets to publicize your actions. If they do air something about them, they will likely do it in a negative manner. I think we need to shift away from moralist activism and more towards practical activism that is based on necessity.

[EricTheRed]

Don't expect news outlets to publicize your actions. If they do air something about them, they will likely do it in a negative manner. I think we need to shift away from moralist activism and more towards practical activism that is based on necessity.

Who expected that? The news media doesn't need to know about this. The movement in this country needs to address the historical issues - currently, we're held back by the fact that people are either too scared of the left, thanks to programs like COINTELPRO and now the Patriot Act, or they're leftists who are distrustful of other leftists due to events that didn't even happen during their lifetime. This is an internal thing, so to speak, that we need to address before we can continue to rebuild our movement after the kicks-in-the-ass that the movement got in the 60s - 80s.

[Harrycombs]

In our schools in VA, we are told all the time in government/history classes that "communism doesn't work." I try to explain all the time to my 8th grade peers that it could, but next to all of the teachers, I have no credibility. Most of the youth in my area think communism is stupid, or think "anarchism is cool because you can riot and destroy stuff." I don't know any real radicals besides my self :(

So, America's youth will not be helping the movement much with all of the propaganda being shoved down our throats. I think the US wont even have a chance of becoming communist until another industrialized country does.

[Winter]

The left, especially the revolutionary left, is screwed right now in America. The best we can do is to keep organizing in our communities. There is no vanguard party or organization that has any leadership with the working class right now and we shouldn't pretend like there is, because it certainly isn't us. We've got to show people that capitalism is shit and there is an alternative. Tons of people understand that capitalism is a horribly flawed and inefficient system, but people don't see any other choice, so we need to spread the ideas around. A good idea is to work with unions. The public sector workers in my town have organized themselves and built a very good union which has many radical members in it. That's usually a good place to start.


I agree with you completely. Myself as an individual can't even find a decent organization here in the U.S., how do we expect workers to?

I hope our comrades in the third world are doing what they can. I personally feel another great depression is needed in the U.S. to awaken the working class to a revolutionary alternative. I feel it may be the only way for change to occur.

[KC]

Ok let me start of by saying ive been protesting this war for some time now about 4 years now and the war has been going on for about five. What ive noticed is that at protest its just the same group of dedicated people who constantly come and make these events possible wich is GOOD IMO. But heres the dilema just this weekend i went to a protest to mark the fith anversary t the iraq war i thouhgt it was goana be our usaul route BUT this is what completly blew my mind instead of the usual route we protested to the Los angeles H.Q of CNN my jaw droped and i give much respect to A.N.S.W.E.R:D. so when i left i was exited you know i didnt expect CNN to air the story but i was hoping the local stations would. To my surprise only one local station aired the story and it was only briefly really. So i feel realy furstated that our message is only heard by so many and really depresing realy.

So my first qeustion to you activist from the states or other parts of the world Are you having the same experiance in other parts of ther world and If so how is your guys media covering it if they cover it at all?

That's how the media always is. Come to expect it.


Well it most likely will in America, conditions, although bad, are not disparaging enough bring in more dissidents.

It's definitely on its way with this depression.


Leftism, as far as I can tell, is dead in the US.

Let it die. Leftism sucks.


The leftists that are in the US need to band together and start a new congress. We need to resolve our historical problems before we even think of trying to build a new movement.

I would start on the local level, first. Resolving differences on a national scale is impossible if local and regional differences aren't solved to a considerable degree, first.

[EricTheRed]

Let it die. Leftism sucks.

This is surprising to hear on a leftist board.

[Ferryman 5]

Ultra Violence,

I wasn't talking about your comments in fact I thought yours and the next two posts were very thoughtful. But judging by some of the stuff that has popped up you must agree that there is a good amount of 'pessemism' about.

The first thing to remember is that if the press or TV ever say anything about the anti-war movement IT IS ONLY EVER FOR THEIR OWN REASONS! What you and your comrades should draw from this is that the news media are absolutely terrified about giving you the "oxygen of publicity". You should now be able to jeer at their weakness and lack of 'democratic' "even handedness" ans so score a defeat for their cowardly hypocrisy. Stat making the media as much a target of your propaganda as the warmongers. Expose them with ridicule rather than complain about them.

As for 'Fedorov', you are leading the pack of pessimists so far exactly because there is a "crisis" which is going to deliver a slap in the face.

[Faux Real]

Well it most likely will in America, conditions, although bad, are not disparaging enough bring in more dissidents.There is already a large number of dissidents, for example the Ron Paulites and conspiracy theorists, and although not leftists they won't be putting their faith in the US government anytime soon. They're just being led in the wrong direction towards wrong solutions.
Unless there is a major economic or military disaster people will keep eating the crap media sells them.That's why its a task to provide an alternative viewpoint, no matter how small (given that alternative/radical press will never be as large or in the spotlight as much as the huge conglomerates). People are not sheep unless surrounded by a unipolar environment.
I don't know how many of us have been to or lived in the South, but I truly think only parts of Africa are as ignorant.What are you talking about here, and why this huge generalization? Everyone in these regions is ignorant? Ignorant about what? How is that a valid comparison? Who is truly to blame?
As for doing something, well the Times Square bomber did something and look how far we got (rolls eyes)."We" got further with this propaganda of the deed than by giving up on anti-war politics entirely.

[Ultra-Violence]

Ultra Violence,

I wasn't talking about your comments in fact I thought yours and the next two posts were very thoughtful. But judging by some of the stuff that has popped up you must agree that there is a good amount of 'pessemism' about.

The first thing to remember is that if the press or TV ever say anything about the anti-war movement IT IS ONLY EVER FOR THEIR OWN REASONS! What you and your comrades should draw from this is that the news media are absolutely terrified about giving you the "oxygen of publicity". You should now be able to jeer at their weakness and lack of 'democratic' "even handedness" ans so score a defeat for their cowardly hypocrisy. Stat making the media as much a target of your propaganda as the warmongers. Expose them with ridicule rather than complain about them.

As for 'Fedorov', you are leading the pack of pessimists so far exactly because there is a "crisis" which is going to deliver a slap in the face.

Aye i agree thier is pessimism present but what do expect living in the heart of the beast isnt so great when your like 1 out of 10000000 people who EVEN STOP TO THINK AND CARE about other people around the world now on to your second point. i know the Media wouldnt air our story with out a doubt i wouldnt expect less from CNN but what i was getting at was that Only 1! ONE LOCAL station ran the story! thats whats so suprising to me. Now lets bring this back to the Vietnam war they media then would come up with brutal TRUE! images of war wich eventualy led to the american people to want to end the war. Now in the present the media and the ruling elite dont want this because of The Vietnam Syndrome wich is like a lethal poison to the ruling class. But the fact that their not running the story's is at the same time Very bad for Us in that 1.We have to go to extreme lengths to get the message threw and whos to say waht extreme enough and whats not!? 2.It nots goana be good when some one gets hurt.

Look the timsquare bombing was a real eye opener in the sense that were do we go from here? Its a sign of things to come and who knows how much longer the ruling class can keep up this Veil over peoples eyes? And whos to say these people who all of a sudden when reality hits them in the face that thier goana come over to our side? thats the issue i want to adress and sorry for not giving the title of this thread a better title.

So lets discus this were do we go from here?

[Ferryman 5]

The obvious temptation is for people to start getting into 'direct action' of all kinds, and it might be the right thing to do, different strokes for different folks, if you know what I mean. But as 'ErikThe Red' above said:
"The movement in this country needs to address the historical issues - currently," ...This is an internal thing, so to speak, that we need to address before we can continue to rebuild our movement..." But I disagree with him because I think that we will have to continue building and taking 'direct action' at the same time as developing the ESENTIAL revolutionary theory for attacking and defeating imperialism.

And the first thing to get across to ourselves, if we are going to have any wider influence, is that we have to develop an instinctive capacity to attack! Even when, and possibly because we are "1 out of 10000000". We simply can not overcome the 'internal' difficulties without the ability to expose and rubbish the enemy at every opportunity. What else can we do?

[abbielives!]

Leftism, as far as I can tell, is dead in the US.


I don't know about that, we anarchists have been growing since the 80's. Communism may very well be dead however.

If you don't like any of the organizations that currently exist then START YOUR OWN.

[EricTheRed]

I don't know about that, we anarchists have been growing since the 80's. Communism may very well be dead however.


lol.

[KurtFF8]

I don't know why people make claims like "the left is dead" when there are still large leftist groups. For example,

1) Most of the major anti-war groups have much leftist influence (for example A.N.S.W.E.R. and United for Peace and Justice both have communist and socialist parties on their steering comities).

2) SDS is back

3) The Party for Socialism and Liberation seems to be growing in popularity

4) Anarchism continues to grow in popularity.

etc.

[abbielives!]

I don't know why people make claims like "the left is dead" when there are still large leftist groups. For example,

1) Most of the major anti-war groups have much leftist influence (for example A.N.S.W.E.R. and United for Peace and Justice both have communist and socialist parties on their steering comities).

2) SDS is back

3) The Party for Socialism and Liberation seems to be growing in popularity

4) Anarchism continues to grow in popularity.

etc.


it's because people have heard it all their lives from the capitalist press, they have convinced us of our own irrelivence.

[EricTheRed]

I don't know why people make claims like "the left is dead" when there are still large leftist groups. For example,

1) Most of the major anti-war groups have much leftist influence (for example A.N.S.W.E.R. and United for Peace and Justice both have communist and socialist parties on their steering comities).

ANSWER and UFPJ are admirable movements, though I question how many people who participate in their, admittedly large-scale, protests know that ANSWER was established by the WWP.


2) SDS is backIt remains to be seen whether the SDS are "back". They just started up again. I will be very impressed if the SDS rise to the same prominence that it had in the 60s. (Full disclosure; I will be organizing an SDS chapter in my area this summer, so I sincerely hope you're right.)


3) The Party for Socialism and Liberation seems to be growing in popularityI've barely heard a rumble from them other than being involved with ANSWER.


4) Anarchism continues to grow in popularity.

etc.
Anarchism has "continued" to grow in popularity for a couple of decades now. That doesn't mean that the anarchist movement - at least, the American anarchist movement - is getting any stronger.

The reason why I say that the left is dead is because there is no unification, lots of sectarianism, lots of rhetoric, very little action and very little push to actually gain popular support. These, more or less, work hand-in-hand with each other. We've got little splinter groups, that continue to splinter further into smaller factions, and small spurts of action. Oh, yea... and we still have people arguing about historical events that go back to the turn of the last century that they were never apart of.

Where is the organization on the level of the Black Panthers? The organizations that, instead of just protesting, are setting up alternatives in poor and oppressed communities to the capitalist welfare state? They don't exist anymore.

[EricTheRed]

it's because people have heard it all their lives from the capitalist press, they have convinced us of our own irrelivence.

No. They've convinced other people of our irrelevance, and many people have just been self-fulfilling prophecies.

[Ferryman 5]

I don't know about that, we anarchists have been growing since the 80's. Communism may very well be dead however.

If you don't like any of the organizations that currently exist then START YOUR OWN.

Ah bless. Just contemplate for a moment the self regarding boastful crowing of this petit-bourgeois influenced mentality. Note the knee jerk sectarianism that brings unjustified contempt on revolutionaries everywhere.

My advice to this comrade is to avoid infecting any organisation with this divisive foolishness, take your own advice, and "START YOUR OWN."