Dungeons and Dragons

[Moskitto]

According to the alignment system in Dungeons and Dragons, Capitalism is evil.

Reason,

Evil alignments (Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil) are basically those who think of themselves first and try and use laws for themselves, or just think of themselves whatever respectively. This would more of less give capitalism a Lawful Evil alignment because it encourages people to use the orderly society to benefit themselves.

Now a Chaotic Evil alignment would be one of those mass murdering tyrants like Pol Pot, Leopold II or Adolf Hitler.

According to an experienced dungeons and dragons player I know, most people are Lawful Neutral (follow laws because they are laws) or Neutral Evil (Think only about themselves).

(My computer decided to die on Thursday last week so I spent the whole weekend reading the dungeons and dragons players manual because I was bored.)

[queen of diamonds]

should we be worried about you?
isn't dungeons & dragons a computer game or something?

[Moskitto]

no it's an RPG game played by a group of people sitting around a table with some di.

I also sorted a C2 board and persuaded my posible C2 partner to start paddling again, maybe I could get him racing soon. Although we probably won't be going to the worlds because he's twice my age.

[RedCeltic]

I used to play that many years ago when I was a kid. I still have the AD&D DM guide somewhere... a friend of mine has it signed by it's inventor, Gary Gygax.

[munkey soup]

Ha ha, D&D. I have a friend who's really into D&D. And guess what? His little gaming group is fully funded by the University I go to! Can you believe that? They got around $1800 from the University to go buy di(ce?) and manuals and whatever else you need to play. $1800!! And they spent it all, I saw the receipt. I personally never got into it. I'm not a fan of the fantasy RPG (unless there's a Tolkien one out there, then count me in!).

[reagan lives]

Well, I'm convinced. Hasta la victoria siempre.

[Xvall]

1) God raegan, Shut up! You said the same thing about the Black Hawk down post. This isn't an argument against capitalism! We're just trying to discuss stuff here!

2) I play DnD.. I would likely see myself as a 'chaotic good' person maybe, which would basically be some sort of anarchist or revolutionary, likely some sort of rebel fighting against a 'lawful evil' person. It's basically a person who wishes to do good, but will do nearly anything to achieve it, if it required breaking laws (An example would be freeing political prisoners) then so be it for that 'charachter'...

[munkey soup]

Cayate, Reagan Lives!

[PaulDavidHewson]

"According to the alignment system in Dungeons and Dragons, Capitalism is evil.

Reason,

Evil alignments (Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil) are basically those who think of themselves first and try and use laws for themselves, or just think of themselves whatever respectively. This would more of less give capitalism a Lawful Evil alignment because it encourages people to use the orderly society to benefit themselves. "

-This is not true! The lawful part states: Abides by the law. It maybe unjust laws or cruel laws, but nevertheless a certain code of conduct.
- Neutral: There are laws, it's as simple as that! You try to act within the laws, but it may happen that you act outside the law. For instance: it's unlawful to steal, but when you are hungry you will probably end up stealing food. Neutral. A lawful person would try to resort it within the law.

"Now a Chaotic Evil alignment would be one of those mass murdering tyrants like Pol Pot, Leopold II or Adolf Hitler. "

This is also not true, everything Hitler did happened within a certain law based system. Germany was pretty organised and beaurocratic. Hitler abided by rules he laid down and wanted others to also do this. This would make Hitler LawfulEvil. Chaotic Evil clearly means that someone act on his wits witout any regard for the law and always views on things with the intend to do evil.

Chaotic Good person would perform good action like saving a princess, but without any regrard for the law if he/she doesn't have any use for them!

"According to an experienced dungeons and dragons player I know, most people are Lawful Neutral (follow laws because they are laws) or Neutral Evil (Think only about themselves). "

Not true, Most people would be Neutral Good/Lawful Good. Neutral good because people respect the law and know there are laws to abide by and try to live by the laws but not always. They are good because most people would help other in need even if they don't like that person and would always try to do the moraly right thing.

Lawful Good, because there are a lot of people who always live by the law. They try to do the just thing to do.


(My computer decided to die on Thursday last week so I spent the whole weekend reading the dungeons and dragons players manual because I was bored.)

Play the game and learn! or get out and get a girlfriend or something:) :P


Capitalisme would be Lawful Neutral.
There are clear cut rules and regulations which must be followed. Procedures etc.
Neutral because capitalisme isn't always moraly just and do tend to take advantage of circumstances, but also they do tend to do some good in certain circumstances(None of which I will explain, because it is outside the scope of this discussion and much to broad)

Mind you, that a Chaotic Evil Aligment is often a maniac acting on his wits and always with the intend to do evil.
Trying to get the best for his self.

Chaotic Neutral aligment would be someone very unpredictable. That person can be good or Evil, whatever suits his needs.

Neutral Neutral(true Neutral) are druids, keeping the balance, not biased. Good or Evil it's al part of the world and only a perfect balance of those two can ensure continuation.

Dragonlace saga clearly states that a perfectly Lawful Good society will eventually lead to chaos.
At a certain point laws were to be upholded by mind-reading and such. Sever and stric punishements for all who cross the law.(Anyway this is a long story)


I've been playing Ad&d and other table-top rpg's for 6 years now. I've already had a lot of discussions about this all. the ad&d 3rd edition core rules are more clear on aligments then 2nd edition.


Anyways, it's very silly to compare real world with a rpg system, because adnd is designed to be playable without to much hassle and consideration with real-life.
As you have probably read the entire Ad&d system(melee, magic, physics) can not be compared with real life siuations.

[PaulDavidHewson]

Anyway, to continue on my previous post, your arguments and mine as well would make Communisme a LN society.

In theory Capitalisme and Communisme would both probably be LG systems(in an overall perspective).
But in reality they are LN or maybe in some instances LE.
But the same can be said that in some instances they are LG.

A stalemate? No! You can't confine societies with such a complicated nature in Alignments groups, you can only make a rough call looking from a certain angle at the overall society as a whole.

Aligments are too confined, they leave very little room for expansion. It only enforces stereotyping/typecasting.

[Moskitto]

Actually the arguement that most people were LN or NE was that most people obey the law just because it is the law (the soldier who unquestionably follows orders given as the example) or there are some people who don't care about the law only about themselves (like NE)

BTW, this wasn't actually meant to be taken seriously, I was just bored and desided to test my bordem produced hypothesis on the forum. I was bored.

But the Final Solution worked!:) I hope, well I'll secure it so it definitely will work.

[red senator]

Ok, this isn't about d&d, but did any of you ever play Magic: the gathering? That is a classic case of greed ruining a very good thing. That game was cool as shit, but a little before pokeman game cards got big, Wizards of The Coast (magic's maker) found that they could make very big profits if they changed the game to fit more customers. In efect, over a three year period, WoTC were able to not only raise prices on the cards and increase profits, but also dumb down the game and create a bunch of crappy merchandise to spread the game among more customer's who were originally not sharp enough to learn/play the game in the first place. They changed the cards to the point where it is no longer strategy but just who has spent the most money on buying cards that wins the game. I gave it up a while ago because of this, but i still enjoy the old cards.

[Imperial Power]

I used to play Magic back in the day. I still have my cards, I remeber when they where worth a hell of a lot and then the prices nose dived.

[Moskitto]

I got given a set of cards of magic for christmas back then, but I never found anyone to play with, I bought more though so I collected quite a lot. I'll have to find my cards one day.

[Xvall]

Actually Paul..
Hitler and Pol Pot would be Chaotic Evil...

You have to read the 'politics' section of the Dungeon Master guide, it states that a Chaotic Evil leader is one that places his citizens under 'Contant fear and opression.' The thing is, In a lawful evil place, you can survive if you abide by the laws, it's just that if you go against the leader or break the laws you would be SEVERELY punished. In Chaotic Evil places, the leader can just decide to kill random people for no reason.. (Ie. Hitler and Pol Pot..)

Communism and Capitalism Must both be of some good' alignment to work, as far as DnD terms are concerned, while Anarchism should be Chaotic Good.

- Drake Dracoli

[Moskitto]

Most people are Lawful Neutral because most people follow laws simply because they are laws and they fear punishment. Example, In a school I once went to we weren't allowed to wear digital watches (If you want to laugh at the reason it was because "they can be thrown") and no one did wear digital watches, not because they thought the rule was good (because it was stupid) but because they didn't want to get punished.