Hey Solz!

[antitrot]

Hey, sorry I haven't been able to reply. I don't really have time for long winded replies anymore which is why I haven't been around.

Anyway, I remember we were discussing if Pol Pot was a communist. Well...

http://www.counterorder.com/nihilismbios.html#1

Yup, he was just a Nihilist in red clothing.

[Moskitto]

Yeah and then there was the fact that he believed the Khmers to be the master race and practiced ethnic cleansing that made Hitler look like a member of the Commision for Racial Equality.

The whole point of communism is that everyone is equal and if you believe in a master race then you can't believe that everyone is equal can you.

[Solzhenitsyn]

Antitrot - that link proves absolutely nothing. It's a short low quality rant about the virtues of Pol Pot from a site that also claims King Solomon was nihilist. You still have not responded to the fact that Pol Pot had been a member of the Cambodian Communist Party since '46 and was the party chairman from '68 to '75 after which it went incognito as the Revolutionary Organization. He also served as party chairman of the CCP after the RO confirmed that it was indeed the CCP in '77.

Yeah and then there was the fact that he believed the Khmers to be the master race and practiced ethnic cleansing that made Hitler look like a member of the Commision for Racial Equality.

This statement is hard to reconcile with the fact that Pol Pot was not Khmer; he was Cambodian. Secondly, the Khmer did not even compose the majority of the Khmer Rouge when it was in power. When is the last time you've seen a Klan with blacks in the majority and with a black serving as Grand Wizard? The fact that he first concentrated on killing the middle class, educators, religious clergy, former government officials and westerners reveal his Maoist concern with an anti-western cultural revolution. The subsequent attempt at another 'Great Leap Foward' confirms that he is indeed a Marxist of the Maoist kind.

The whole point of communism is that everyone is equal and if you believe in a master race then you can't believe that everyone is equal can you.

Is this true? I thought communism teaches that the proletariat are the superior class and that other classes are expendable. The argument that the working class is the largest fails in America because the middle class is the largest here. Suppose that the working class is the largest class, I thought that commies are taught to respect minority rights. Does communism really teach equality or a master class?

[sabre]

Pol Pot killed 1/3 of his population, communism does not advocate that, it condemns it

therefor pol pot was not a communist

[Solzhenitsyn]

Quote: from sabre on 2:28 pm on April 25, 2002
Pol Pot killed 1/3 of his population, communism does not advocate that, it condemns it

therefor pol pot was not a communist

Is this similar to arguments in within the German Nazi Party during WWII that Hitler, Himmler, Göring, et al were not really Nazi enough?

(Edited by Solzhenitsyn at 2:47 pm on April 25, 2002)

[sabre]

man what r u talking about, inm not saying hes not commuist enough, im saying hes not communist , period

[antitrot]

Solz - Man, you are seriously delusional. I mean completely and utterly out of touch with reality.

First off, I don't NEED to respond to the fact that Pol Pot was a member of the CCP. You know why? Because it doesn't matter! Anyone with an objective thought in their mind (read: not you) will realize that he could have belonged to the Cambodian Peace and Freedom Party and still turned out the way he did. If you can argue that Pol Pot joining the Communist Party made him a communist, then I can argue that him leaving the Communist Party is proof he was not a communist. It's the same faulty logic.

Second, Maoists may despise the middle class culture, but no where in Maoist theory does it say "...and liquidate it."

What really counts in the final word on Pol Pot is his motives and what he did once in power... not what he said he was going to do. This includes all the things this website pointed out. Such as the evacuation of cities, the destruction of infrastructure, the complete neglect for human life and the creation of an atmosphere of total ultra-violence. All pillars of Nihilism in the process of turning the earth, or in Pol Pot's case, Cambodia, back a good 300 years.

(Edited by antitrot at 4:55 pm on April 25, 2002)

[Moskitto]

Is this true?

Yes, Try reading works by Ball, More or other pre 19th century socialists instead of Marx or anti-Communist literature.

You still have not responded to the fact that Pol Pot had been a member of the Cambodian Communist Party since '46

The CPK didn't exist until September 1960. He couldn't have been a member of a non-existant party.

This statement is hard to reconcile with the fact that Pol Pot was not Khmer; he was Cambodian.

Oh dear,

1. Khmers ARE Cambodians.

2. Genocide perpetrators do not always choose their group as the master race, for example, Adolf Hitler had dark hair, brown eyes, was short, overweight and had a Jewish grandmother, However he decided that the Tall, Thin, Blond Haired, Blue Eyed people were the master race and singled out the dark hair Jews for extermination.
Khmers had a history of a successful Empire in the area of Cambodia similar to the myths created of the great German domination over Europe.

The fact that he first concentrated on killing the middle class, educators, religious clergy, former government officials and westerners

Source: Ben Kiernan, "The Cambodian Genocide"

Proportions of at risk groups killed in Cambodia.

Vietnamese: 10,000 (100%)
Chinese: 215,000 (50%)
Lao: 4,000 (40%)
Thai: 8,000 (40%)
Cham: 90,000 (36%)
Urban Khmer: 500,000 (25%)
Rural Khmer: 825,000 (16%)

Master Race=No Communist

(Edited by Moskitto at 9:19 pm on April 30, 2002)

[Xvall]

Last time I checked,
A nazi was merely a national socialist in germany..
I don't think is HAS to have to deal with racism...

[Guest]

Pol Pot was definitely a nihilist. He believed that by exterminating certain portions of Cambodia's demography, he would ensure the future prosperity for generations to come. He also led a very radical social revolution, characteristic of nihilism. Pol Pot wanted to "open the windows and let in the fresh air" so to speak, and to do this he had to kill a lot of people. And not just on the basis of race, but also people who seemed too intellectual, were too old, too western in their thinking, or subversive in any way. Nihilists believe specifically in the abolition of the old and the embracing of the new; they are willing to kill any number of people to acheive this end. Ergo, Pol Pot embodies no real communist doctrine, but simply played the part of a communist party member to gain support.

[Ernest Everhard]

so he had a telos in mind, if one has a teleology then their not a nihilist.