Everyone's thoughts on this quote from the film "Scarface"

[Digitalism]

I was watching a scene from Scarface last night and there was an interesting "speech" from Al Pacino on 'communism' before I post it, I'd like for everyone who reads this, give me an honest reply - an analysis of the words. What is right or wrong in the words he says.


"You a communist? huh? how you like it? They tell you all the time what to do, what to think, what to feel. Do you wanna be like a sheep? Like all those other people? Do you wanna work eh? Ten fuckin' hours? You own nothing, you got nothing. With everyone lookin after you, watching everything you do, everything you say, man?"

Oliver Stone of course wrote the screenplay, if that says anything...:D

but for real now, what do you say to this? Typical anti-communist rant ?

Although I believe there's truth in what he says there. This is largely due to "dictatorship" and not the TRUE theory of Marx.

[angus_mor]

It's nothing more than the philosophy of a drug-lord who fought hard to build a pyramid of cocaine with blood that at once turns to dust when the abolition of private property nullifies the one thing that made it all possible; money. Without the carrot he has nothing, and the ones which used to tolerate his scourge turn away or against him.


Typical anti-communist rant ?

Oh yeah, it's a typical straw man rant; a mischaracterization of the [c]ommunist position based on, "[C]ommunism in practice." I deal with it all the time, in fact I'm answering to an Austrian Student with more-or-less exactly the same argument right now. It's sophist bullshit which contributes absolutely nothing at all to rational argumentation and debate. But such is the point of the straw man; to intimidate the exploited and discourage them from questioning the nature of their oppression. What more would you expect from Tony Montana or a privileged screenwriter like Oliver Stone?

[Digitalism]

okay okay, but... he's not representing Marx here, he's representing pretty much a "border jumper" who has been opressed by his own govt. in this scenario; Castro. Let's keep in mind it's a movie, but the fact that many people left Cuba isn't a farce, is it. So what are they running away from exactly? Those same things as "Montana" describes in his quote?

I just want to know if there's any TRUTH in his quote, whether written by Stone or not. We can't deny that some of this shit didn't happen - such is the case with a DICTATORSHIP. I think that's what Montana describes pretty much. Can we agree on that?

[angus_mor]

Well of course their's truth to what he's saying; he's talking about the very problems which arise within the system of, "Authoritarian Socialism." And of course, many leave thinking that America is the land with streets paved with gold. Many more actually go back to Cuba when they realize that even under a developing socialism fettered by a central government they actually had more freedom, more effective democracy, and
greater benefit from the totality of economic activity within it.

Do I think that Cuba has a good society? Yes. Do I think it's the best? No way. Do I think that they could be doing things which would spur greater development of socialism? Hell yes, I do. But to get back to the point, Montana is criticizing the shortcomings of his country of origin's political system, which is a pitiful argument against communism itself.

[Labor Shall Rule]

In Platoon, his "semi-autobiograhy," he burnt down a Vietnamese village, and was a part of a unit that murdered prisoners of war and civilians. I don't think that Stone (or any other liberal freak from Hollywood) should be taken seriously.

Most of what Montana said is not true about communism whatsoever. There is a degree of restriction in Cuba, but not to the point of being the Orwelian nightmare that Tony described. It is far more democratic and representative than what the United States or Europe will ever be.

[BIG BROTHER]

I disagree the Cuban socialist system isn't the best one there is. But its hard to make it better when you have a country 70 miles away just waiting for a sign of weaknes to invade you. So Castro and now Raul in have to keep a somewhat tight control of the goverment and society.

[Digitalism]

ok, so all of what he says is "Orwellian" but it doesn't mean it never happened under dictatorships.

[AGITprop]

ok, so all of what he says is "Orwellian" but it doesn't mean it never happened under dictatorships.

Not particularly under this dictatorship. You must also remember that the many people who left Cuba after the revolution were the ex-ruling class. Their interests were not represented in a 'socialist' state and therefore, bitterly left the island with a stream of slander behind them.

[Digitalism]

makes sense, but what about the people who are still leaving today?

[Labor Shall Rule]

makes sense, but what about the people who are still leaving today?

Roughly 500 Cubans leave the country every year, and most of them leave to meet up with family members in the United States. This is amazingly small compared to the rest of the capitalist Latin America. Just last year, five million Mexicans braved mountainous regions and arid deserts to cross into the United States, to escape the free-trade deathtrap that their country has been transformed into.

[Killer Enigma]

In Platoon, his "semi-autobiograhy," he burnt down a Vietnamese village, and was a part of a unit that murdered prisoners of war and civilians. I don't think that Stone (or any other liberal freak from Hollywood) should be taken seriously.
Have you ever seen Platoon? Stone has made no indication (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oliverston311012.html) that the story was in any way a direct account of what happened to him. He has merely indicated that various events from his time in Vietnam influenced the film.

[Digitalism]

Roughly 500 Cubans leave the country every year, and most of them leave to meet up with family members in the United States. This is amazingly small compared to the rest of the capitalist Latin America. Just last year, five million Mexicans braved mountainous regions and arid deserts to cross into the United States, to escape the free-trade deathtrap that their country has been transformed into.


Cool, I hope I'm not making this sound like I'm refuting what you're saying here but it'd be nice to have a source that backs up these statements; Cuba one and Mexican ;)

also, who was that little boy from Cuba that made his way to Florida on a boat or something like that, back in 1999. The media made a big deal about it..what was all that about too.

[Winter]

Just a side note. In another part of Scarface Tony Montana says, "Do you know what capitalism is? Getting fucked."

[Digitalism]

Just a side note. In another part of Scarface Tony Montana says, "Do you know what capitalism is? Getting fucked."

Lol, I didn't get to that bit ..but considering both statements I think it's safe to say Scarface is politically neutral. :laugh:

[RebelDog]

The best quote from Scarface is: "Say hello to my little friend."

Fantastic film but Tony Montana was a cock-a-roach.

[BIG BROTHER]

The best quote from Scarface is: "Say hello to my little friend."

Fantastic film but Tony Montana was a cock-a-roach.

True.

[bayano]

for a completely different take on Oliver Stone's views on marxism, see Salvador

[chegitz guevara]

the fact that many people left Cuba isn't a farce, is it. So what are they running away from exactly?

Who says they are running "away?" Most of them are running "toward" America and the easy money and good life they think exists here. When I was watching the news a few years back they were showing some recent fuckers off the boat and one of them smiled right at the camera and said, "Now to start making money." They come for the same reason there are twelve million illegal immigrants in America. Jobs!

[chegitz guevara]

also, who was that little boy from Cuba that made his way to Florida on a boat or something like that, back in 1999. The media made a big deal about it..what was all that about too.

The boy's name was Elian. The boat he and his mother were on sank and she put him in a inner tube. Supposedly dolphins were playing with him when the fishermen found him.

Anyway, one good thing to come out of all that is that it split the Cuban community here in South Florida and enabled people who didn't tow the gusano line to be able to speak freely about their differences. The Miami Cubans have just been pretty deflated since then.

[manic expression]

Just one thing: the context of the movie is important. The character in the movie (Tony Montana) represents a lot of real criminals who went to the US during the Mariel Boatlift. They were, simply, a bunch of thugs who the Cuban people wanted nothing to do with; when Carter called Cuba a "prison", Castro allowed anyone who wanted to go to the US to emigrate, and guess who went? Mostly criminals. Of course they would have negative views of Cuban socialism, because they want to make money off of other people.

[R_P_A_S]

okay okay, but... he's not representing Marx here, he's representing pretty much a "border jumper" who has been opressed by his own govt. in this scenario; Castro. Let's keep in mind it's a movie, but the fact that many people left Cuba isn't a farce, is it. So what are they running away from exactly? Those same things as "Montana" describes in his quote?

I just want to know if there's any TRUTH in his quote, whether written by Stone or not. We can't deny that some of this shit didn't happen - such is the case with a DICTATORSHIP. I think that's what Montana describes pretty much. Can we agree on that?

it's an ignorant quote.. because its the same shit here in the U.S... except is not 'communism telling us how to think' it's business, and consumerism.. etc...

yawn...

[el comandante]

I wouldn't want to bash Oliver Stone, considering his film Comandante shows the revolution and Fidel in a pretty good light,

[bugsy]

I think the quote is a pretty accurate expression of the way the Septic capitalists have twisted the Socialist ideology into something wholly negative for their own selfish ends. As such, and considering the filum was made primarily for Septic audiences anyway, I don't think much can be done to change that basic attitude, at least not at the moment

There might be a good chance of a major rethink when the shit really hits the fan in the US economically. When folks realise just how thoroughly they've been fucked over by big bizniss and by the Septic gobment.

MsG

[Orange Revolution]

After the Bay of Pigs fiasco Castro allowed anyone who didn't want to be part of the revolution(ie those who had most to lose) to leave by boat to Florida. He also emptied his prisons of all the scum of Cuba... I think Tony Montana was speaking from a viewpoint of a criminal no longer welcome or able to ply his trade, and having to work is not an option. Oliver Stone is not making a statement on 'communism' per say, but more a comment on some of the Cuban refugees twisted logic, after all only in America, Land of Opportunity, can a gangster arrive with nothing and build an empire, Tony Montanas mission statement was 'The World Is Yours' cockarroach...

[bootleg42]

I wouldn't want to bash Oliver Stone, considering his film Comandante shows the revolution and Fidel in a pretty good light,

Honestly I don't think it was Stone's goal to make him look good. It was just Fidel being himself which shows you plenty. :castro:

[Faux Real]

I think the movie as a whole depicts in a sense, how to "succeed" in capitalism (at least through one method), when coming from a low class background... unless Tony Montana was already middle class or something when he arrived in the states which then invalidates what I'm going to say.

He does some odd jobs for the drug-dealing bourgeoisie, gets territory of his own, cuts behind the scenes deals with competitors, friendships decay over petty issues, he kills friends and competitors, owns things for a while until his resources run out and competitors and/or former employees turn on their former buddy.

Sure, it has one line of inanely ignorant anti-communist rhetoric, but it takes away from the massive, inevitable fall he takes after seemingly "having it made". The message I take from it is that capitalism is just not sustainable.

[el comandante]

Honestly I don't think it was Stone's goal to make him look good. It was just Fidel being himself which shows you plenty. :castro:

I agree with that, but the norm is to present Cuba in a way that makes it look bad and he did not do that. So he has my respect in that reguard.

[Zurdito]

the reason why he's under constant survellaince and poverty in Cuba is because the world's largest empire has that state under a constant state of seige. it's true that "communism" existing within in a capitalist world is exactly like he described. so what conclusions do we draw? they had a revolution for a reason in Cuba in the first place and it wasn't because they were all free and rich under capitalism. In fact for the vast majority of the world, what he described is true, whether or not the government inq uestion is nominally communist or capitalist.

Conclusion: global capitalism sucks, and especially if you live in the third world, you'll be fucked over by it, whatever your government's ideology.

[hekmatista]

Interestingly enough, I got the same sort of statement, almost word-for-word, from my Polish relatives when I was there in 1969. I'd be interested in knowing what they think now, after 20 years of neo-liberal shock therapy.

[ManyAntsDefeatSpiders]

(Tony Montana)
"You a communist? huh? how you like it? They tell you all the time what to do, what to think, what to feel. Do you wanna be like a sheep? Like all those other people? Do you wanna work eh? Ten fuckin' hours? You own nothing, you got nothing. With everyone lookin after you, watching everything you do, everything you say, man?"

That sounds like the typical anti-capitalist 'rant' to me.