Will Obama hurt revolutionaty enthusaism?

[jacobin1949]

It seems if Obama wins, in the minds of many Americans and foreigners, the "Racial issue" will become a problem of the past. In addition if universal health care is adopted and a more benign foreign policy, and America begins to have social values more like Canada, I fear that many Socialists will take the attitude "mission accomplished". Do you think this could be a serious problem?

It could go the other way, with Progressive and radical ideas being more acceptable. The CPUSA compares this to the way that JFK led to the New Left. the CPUSA believes we have been on the defensive for 20 years but after Obama wins progressives can finally be on offense.

http://www.youtube.com/user/communistpartyusa

[Random Precision]

It seems if Obama wins, in the minds of many Americans and foreigners, the "Racial issue" will become a problem of the past. In addition if universal health care is adopted and a more benign foreign policy, and America begins to have social values more like Canada, I fear that many Socialists will take the attitude "mission accomplished". Do you think this could be a serious problem?

The only "socialists" who would think that is "mission accomplished" are the liberals in the CPUSA. No, scratch that, because it's "mission accomplished" for them if Hillary/Barack wins, regardless of whether that means any actual social reform that benefits the workers or not. :rolleyes:


It could go the other way, with Progressive and radical ideas being more acceptable. The CPUSA compares this to the way that JFK led to the New Left. the CPUSA believes we have been on the defensive for 20 years but after Obama wins progressives can finally be on offense.

JFK did not "lead to" the New Left in any sense, unless you're referring to how he escalated the Vietnam War, the struggle against which became a rallying point for the New Left. Maybe you guys are hoping Barack can do the same with Iraq? :lol:

I've had just about enough of the CPUSA and their liberal bullshit. The phrase "red-tinged neo-liberal capitalist cheerleaders" can't even describe the extent to which they've sold out.

[EricTheRed]

It seems if Obama wins, in the minds of many Americans and foreigners, the "Racial issue" will become a problem of the past. In addition if universal health care is adopted and a more benign foreign policy, and America begins to have social values more like Canada, I fear that many Socialists will take the attitude "mission accomplished". Do you think this could be a serious problem?

Well, first, we have to get a few things straight; Obama will not represent a more "benign" foreign policy, he just won't present lamely executed, mass-scale wars like George Bush did or like the Democrats did with Vietnam. What is likely to happen is he will continue proxy wars against leftists and anti-Americans all over the world, as is standard operating procedure for the Democrats. Think Clinton, et. al. In other words, he will represent, more or less, the status quo - just with a fresher face. This is how he's analogous to JFK.

Secondly, no where in his health care plan is a single hint of socialist healthcare. He has the same plan as Clinton and McCain; shitty insurance subsidies. The only differences is that McCain and Obama's plan are more like each others in that they won't force people to buy shitty insurance - Clinton will. They call this steps towards universal health care, but even someone with shit-for-brains will be able to figure out that it will not end up like that.

Thirdly, the race issue will not go away. In fact, over the course of this election period, if Obama does get the nomination, it will become magnified. The WASPs in the Republican Party will use his race against him in some way or another - it's possible that even the self-loathing blacks in the Republican Party will try this tactic, also. And, I predict, that this will continue throughout Obama's presidency.

More over, there will be very little to be done about social welfare, the destruction of institutional racism and so on, when Obama gets into office. It's very possible that the fact that he will do very little to help the black community will haunt him because of his race. So, in other words, it's very possible that the issue of racism will become more pronounced during his presidency. Especially when it seems that the black community is really counting on him.

Any self-respecting socialist and, indeed, leftist will see through this moderate Democrat's "liberal" facade. He will be business as usual.


It could go the other way, with Progressive and radical ideas being more acceptable. The CPUSA compares this to the way that JFK led to the New Left. the CPUSA believes we have been on the defensive for 20 years but after Obama wins progressives can finally be on offense.

The CPUSA are a fucking rubber stamp party for the Democrats. They are betrayers of the left. Fuck them.

Obama does not represent progressive or radical ideas. He represents not being George Bush - which is the only positive thing I see about him.

[Eleftherios]

It seems if Obama wins, in the minds of many Americans and foreigners, the "Racial issue" will become a problem of the past. In addition if universal health care is adopted and a more benign foreign policy, and America begins to have social values more like Canada, I fear that many Socialists will take the attitude "mission accomplished". Do you think this could be a serious problem?

It could go the other way, with Progressive and radical ideas being more acceptable. The CPUSA compares this to the way that JFK led to the New Left. the CPUSA believes we have been on the defensive for 20 years but after Obama wins progressives can finally be on offense.

http://www.youtube.com/user/communistpartyusa

The CPUSA are just democrats who call themselves communists (I'm not even exaggerating-just do a little research on them and you'll see).


I predict (although I could be wrong) that revolutionary enthusiasm will be curbed to a certain extent in the first few months of his presidency (if he's elected). However, I think that once the people (if not most Americans, then progressive foreigners at least) realize that he's not much different than the other presidents, things will return back to "normal", though not to that great of an extent because of Bush. I suspect that people will think of him as they had thought of Bill Clinton when he was president.

That said, one good thing the Bush presidency has done is show to the rest of the world what a monster Amrican imperialism truly is.

[careyprice31]

It seems if Obama wins, in the minds of many Americans and foreigners, the "Racial issue" will become a problem of the past. In addition if universal health care is adopted and a more benign foreign policy, and America begins to have social values more like Canada, I fear that many Socialists will take the attitude "mission accomplished". Do you think this could be a serious problem?

It could go the other way, with Progressive and radical ideas being more acceptable. The CPUSA compares this to the way that JFK led to the New Left. the CPUSA believes we have been on the defensive for 20 years but after Obama wins progressives can finally be on offense.

http://www.youtube.com/user/communistpartyusa

anyone who thinks that Obama will solve all the problems of society is naive.

[lombas]

Is there revolutionary enthusiasm in the US?

[YSR]

Is there revolutionary enthusiasm in the US?

Uh, yeah.

Riots, strikes, refusal of work, protests, etc. Are you unfamiliar with these things?

[erupt]

Is there revolutionary enthusiasm in the US?
Nowhere near as much as there should be, but there are some worker's rights progress going on now, I suppose.

[Awful Reality]

He'll help. He represents "hope" in America, along with foreign and domestic change. Of course, he has no way and no plan of doing this. Frankly, he won't change shit. And when people finally realize that once again the Social Democracy has let them down with empty promises, it'll be the straw that broke the camel's back, and revolutionary struggle will grow.

[Random Precision]

He'll help. He represents "hope" in America, along with foreign and domestic change. Of course, he has no way and no plan of doing this. Frankly, he won't change shit. And when people finally realize that once again the Social Democracy has let them down with empty promises, it'll be the straw that broke the camel's back, and revolutionary struggle will grow.

Obama is nowhere close to Social-Democracy. It would actually be a giant step forward to have a large social-democratic movement in the U.S. Which isn't to say we should be trying to build one, like the IMT keeps harping on about, I frankly think it's a waste of time.

But I agree that Obama might help to change things indirectly, by eroding more faith in the capitalist bipartisan consensus:

http://www.isreview.org/issues/58/feat-elections.shtml

[EricTheRed]

Uh, yeah.

Riots, strikes, refusal of work, protests, etc. Are you unfamiliar with these things?

These barely happen. The labor force in America is not a left-wing force. Not like it used to be at the turn of the 20th century. Collectively, the labor of America has marched slowly to the right, while the labor in other countries have stayed where they are or slipped a little to the left. There is no revolutionary trade union, and no trade union worth a damn in this country besides the IWW, but they're a minute force. The AFL-CIO, Teamsters and so on are a bunch of right-winged back-stabbers with relations to the workers.

[Sankofa]

It seems if Obama wins, in the minds of many Americans and foreigners, the "Racial issue" will become a problem of the past.

I think this is the biggest issue yet with having a Black presidential candidate. Every time a racial issue is brought up, you'll hear: "America's not racist, Barak Obama, a BLACK man is our president!" or "I'm not racist....I voted for Obama, so there!"

America's not going anywhere; having a black man in office who answers to whites higher up is just a farce. Don't let those liberals fool you, they can be just as racist as some inbred prick from Alabama.

[Killer Enigma]

In order for Obama to hurt revolutionary enthusiasm in the United States, it must exist. Presently, it does not.

[Dimentio]

It is inevitable that the USA (and other western countries) will descend into some sort of security-service-controlled dictatorships during the following decades, due to the nature of modern corporate capitalism.

[Coffee Mug]

Obama is a step in the right direction and should be acknowledged as such, but we should and will strive for better.

(After we bask in Obama's success):D

[Sankofa]

Obama is a step in the right direction and should be acknowledged as such, but we should and will strive for better.

(After we bask in Obama's success):D

I wouldn't say there's anything positive about Obama getting elected at all; just another capitalist politician that everyone is putting their hope into.

There's nothing to be celebrating if Obama gets elected. America's been a rotten, imperialist, authoritarian fraud since it's conception; democrat and republican. Obama certainly isn't going to change that.

[A_Ciarra]

In addition if universal health care is adopted and a more benign foreign policy, and America begins to have social values more like Canada, I fear that many Socialists will take the attitude "mission accomplished". Do you think this could be a serious problem?If any so called socialist's are satisfied with what Obama will bring to the US, they can not very well be classified as socialist's. Any revolutionaries associating with soft types like that, would part way's and continue on.

As far as race goes, I don't think people of color are revolutionary strictly because of any race issues - rather they are revolutionaries because of class issues. As long as capitalism remains capitalism, and divides people by class, the issues will will remain, and so will the revolutionaries.

The general population are the ones to "worry about". Many of them remain passive because they don't understand the issues. Many of them would want an end to capitalism as well, if they had enough time to clear their heads of all the democrat b.s. thrown at them all the time. Obama will lull THEM to sleep because he will keep the focused on domestic problems (when the greater problem is capitalism).

This is beside your question (about socialist's), but if there is one problem with US citizen's, it's that the potential revolutionaries are are caught up in a fog of ignorance. They always go to sleep after THEY are fed a few scraps, and their tummy's are full. If Obama attends to domestic problems like jobs, economy, taxes, health care, many potential revolutionaries will snap right back to full time snoozing.

[Lenin II]

Absolutely he will suck the blood from the revolutionary part of the proletariat, just as all the Democrats and the so-called "peoples' party" have done for a hundred years of American history.

This is exactly why comrades should not vote for these bourgeoisie parasites, even if they believe their vote is entirely inconsequential. To do so is to encourage this practice.

[chegitz guevara]

Is there revolutionary enthusiasm in the US?
No.

[Nosotros]

I don't think that people who are truly revolutionary will lose any enthusiasm, infact it might make them more enthusiastic. The reformists, however, will think he's great, for a time anyway, then finally suss him out (thats if he actually comes to power).

[Ferryman 5]

He'll help. He represents "hope" in America, along with foreign and domestic change. Of course, he has no way and no plan of doing this. Frankly, he won't change shit. And when people finally realize that once again the Social Democracy has let them down with empty promises, it'll be the straw that broke the camel's back, and revolutionary struggle will grow.

Very possibly the best analysis on the thread.

[Orange Revolution]

I think you are kidding yourself if you think anything will change. Obama is to Social Change what GW is to Diplomacy, and should Mr Barack get selected, (you can't say elected, it's not an election it's selection) he has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo of the system that put him there. Business As Usual. The revolutionary crunch comes when enough people are oppressed and marginalised to such a degree as to mobilise against the State and it's Capitalist Masters.