Is Jihad fascism?

[Apollodorus]

I believe the two concepts are very similar. Jihad, Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism seem to have close parallels with Nazism. Both persecute certain religions and have paranoid feelings about these religions: Nazism posits a Jewish conspiracy and advocates the slaughter of Jews; Jihad posits a Judæo-Christian conspiracy and advocates the slaughter of Christians, Jews and ethnic 'Westerners'. Nazism advocates a state religion and the persecution of atheists; in much of the Islamic world (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania et cetera), apostasy is illegal and punishable by death.

Do not misunderstand me, I am not supporting Zionism and American Imperialism, but I would say that it primarily an economic issue and Islamophobia is a prejudice which I would say has the potential to develop into fascist sentiment, but at this stage it is not sufficiently mixed with nationalism and racism (at least not where I live) to be called fascism.

Your thoughts?

[Dr Mindbender]

I believe the two concepts are very similar. Jihad, Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism seem to have close parallels with Nazism. Both persecute certain religions and have paranoid feelings about these religions: Nazism posits a Jewish conspiracy and advocates the slaughter of Jews; Jihad posits a Judæo-Christian conspiracy and advocates the slaughter of Christians, Jews and ethnic 'Westerners'. Nazism advocates a state religion and the persecution of atheists; in much of the Islamic world (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania et cetera), apostasy is illegal and punishable by death.

Do not misunderstand me, I am not supporting Zionism and American Imperialism, but I would say that it primarily an economic issue and Islamophobia is a prejudice which I would say has the potential to develop into fascist sentiment, but at this stage it is not sufficiently mixed with nationalism and racism (at least not where I live) to be called fascism.

Your thoughts?

Absolute nonsense. Jihad, Islam etc is a religion which is entirely different to a political orientation.

Jihad is no more a type of fascism than christianity is. Yes, it is deeply homophobic and reactionary but nowhere in the Qu'ran are there any hint of racial supremacy ideas which is fundamental to fascist propaganda.

[Hiero]

Jihad is a concept in Islam. It has no relation to an economic and political model that could develop into fascism.

Jihad, I think means struggle for a Muslim. This ranges from young male Muslisms fighting colonailism in Palestine to an internal struggle of the life choices of an old lady in urban Paris.

You are way off the ball here.

[RHIZOMES]

No.

[Dros]

Jihad is a word. It is usually transalted as religious war but it really just means struggle. I will assume, however, that you are asking about extremist Islam. While there are certain fascist trends within that movement such as the Iranian trend led by people like Ahmedinajad, it is not a necessarily fascist movement. In fact, it is often more of a feudalist movement.

[Apollodorus]

Absolute nonsense. Jihad, Islam etc is a religion which is entirely different to a political orientation.

Jihad is no more a type of fascism than christianity is. Yes, it is deeply homophobic and reactionary but nowhere in the Qu'ran are there any hint of racial supremacy ideas which is fundamental to fascist propaganda.

You misunderstood me. Never in my post did I say Islam is fascism. I do not believe it is at all. I am merely saying that the recent trend of offensive or lesser jihad, or jihad bis saif (not the jihad you spoke of comrade Sweety, I thought it was obvious what I meant by jihad; people on this forum seem to have a tendency to nitpick at definitions and word usage), found in the Sahara, the Levant, and especially Indonesia where I saw a documentary about fanatic Muslims pushing for an Indonesian caliphate. I do not see how a violent, militant minority attempting to replace democracy with hierarchical, authoritarian theocracies is not fascism: that would fall under the definition of fascism for me.

[RHIZOMES]

All fascism is totalitarianism but not all totalitarianism is fascism.

[Faux Real]

Revolution is totalitarian. Is that fascism? :rolleyes:

[Raisa]

No.
Jihad is oppsed to Fascism.
Because Islam doesnt care about race or nationality. it cares about people having the soverignity to be able to submit to Allah and none other, and jihad in its true meaning, is what you get when you try to stop that. Wheter it is your own bad qualities trying to stop it, or a government. Comrade Sweety was entirely right.

[RHIZOMES]

Revolution is totalitarian. Is that fascism? :rolleyes:

I think we're using different definitions of the word.

[Faux Real]

I think we're using different definitions of the word.
'Twas directed at sir Apollo. ;)

[Colonello Buendia]

though I don't think it's fascism I also think the "holy struggle" is ridiculous. the islamic extremists are reactionary, homophobic,sexist and very often anti-semitic. don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning the zionist occupation in any way but I think that alot of people in radical islamist groups are very totalitarian.

[darkened day 92]

The meaning of the word "jihad" is misinterrpeted mostly by extremist. the lesser jihad can be carried out by anyone it's just the acknowledgement of a curropt society enough that the curropt society does not curropt your mind. The higher jihad is where you fight for freedom of your belif either by guns or by debate.
I believe when dealing with the issue of insurgency in the middleast and the Muslim world we have to remember it was triggered by indirect american propaganda (to the insurgents). they were to fight the Soviets in Afghanstan but when the USSR collapsed there were these highly brainwashed and brainwashing men highly trained by the CIA loaded with weapons and knowledge of physics. Now as the "Godless Communists" as the americans said were gone there is a new villan in town (america) because of their support of Israel and their involvement in Iraq and Afghanstan. This seems like conspirocy theories but watch "charlie Wilson's war". You will even see they portray the Mujaheeden as liberators this time. (try not get sucked by Tom Hanks obvious charm and see the real propaganda method behind this)

[Black Dagger]

Jihad is a concept in Islam. It has no relation to an economic and political model that could develop into fascism.

Jihad, I think means struggle for a Muslim. This ranges from young male Muslisms fighting colonailism in Palestine to an internal struggle of the life choices of an old lady in urban Paris.

You are way off the ball here.

Exactly.

[Apollodorus]

Revolution is totalitarian. Is that fascism? :rolleyes:

Revolution is not always totalitarian, and totalitarianism is not always fascism. Jihad, however, is not the type of revolution or that type of totalitarianism.


Islam doesnt care about race or nationality.

Islam does not, but many fanatic Muslims do. Jemaah Islamiyah and Al-Qaeda are not fighting a war against Christendom, they are fighting a war against Israel, the United States and the West. They do not care if Muslims die in their offensives.

Besides, is race really part of fascism? I thought that was common among fascists (Nazis and so forth), but not a defining characteristic. Here is a few definitions for those who are so fussed about such things:


Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: patriotism, nationalism, statism, socialization,militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism.



A political regime based on strong centralised government, suppressing through violence any criticism or opposition of the regime, and exalting nation, state, or religion above the individual.
A system of strong autocracy or oligarchy.


1. often Fascisma. A system of government marked by centralisation of authority under a dictator, stringent socio-economic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.


I think that is enough. Besides, does it really matter if it falls under the definition of fascism or not? Must we split straws? Supposing it is not fascism, one can not deny that it resembles it strongly. I mean, do you want this sort of ideology to spread?

Perhaps it is not definitions at all. Perhaps you lot are actually just getting pissed off because here am I saying that the recent trend of violent jihad is fascism and must be stopped, and you think: 'That's what Howard said!', 'That's what Blair said!', 'That's what Bush said!'...'Hey, this guy must be a capitalist supporter of the United States and American imperialism. I don't like that! Time to post 'No.' without any explanation because there is none needed: opposition to Islam is opposition to communism, because an enemy of my enemy is my friend!'

Am I right?

[Devrim]

I don't think that 'Jihadism' is fascism. I don't think that fascism really exists today. It was a specific point in European history.

Devrim

[EwokUtopia]

"Fascism" is a tricky word. You can either be really tight with it, and say it only existed in Mussolini's Italy, or expand a little and include Franco's Spain, or even more to Pinochet's Chile.

Therefore, in asking if something is fascist, you must first ask yourself "What is Fascism?"

I think this is a pretty solid definition:

http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html

Under these definitions, yes, I think that certain strains of Islamism, if I may use such a neologism, are fascistic in nature. Same could be said with Dominionism in Christianity, and varying shades of Zionism, especially Kahanism.

Religion is fine if you keep it at the level of personal beliefs as a guide to your life, but dont take it to the public, and never the political spheres. Therein lies the road to fascism.

Anyway, I think it is a redundant question for the most part. Worry about the fascism in your own back door. I am a North American. I am worried about Christian Fascism, not Islamic.

[Patchd]

Depends what Jihad you are referring to. I'm guessing the "struggle by the sword", but remember that there are 4 other [more/on the same level of important(nce)] jihads too; "struggle by the mouth", "struggle by the heart", "struggle by the pen" and "struggle by the hand".

It doesn't necessarily have to be violent or advocate some Judaeo-Christian 'conspiracy' which the Qu'ran doesn't advocate.

[RedAnarchist]

I believe the two concepts are very similar. Jihad, Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism seem to have close parallels with Nazism. Both persecute certain religions and have paranoid feelings about these religions: Nazism posits a Jewish conspiracy and advocates the slaughter of Jews; Jihad posits a Judæo-Christian conspiracy and advocates the slaughter of Christians, Jews and ethnic 'Westerners'. Nazism advocates a state religion and the persecution of atheists; in much of the Islamic world (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania et cetera), apostasy is illegal and punishable by death.

Do not misunderstand me, I am not supporting Zionism and American Imperialism, but I would say that it primarily an economic issue and Islamophobia is a prejudice which I would say has the potential to develop into fascist sentiment, but at this stage it is not sufficiently mixed with nationalism and racism (at least not where I live) to be called fascism.

Your thoughts?

How can you be an "ethnic Westerner"? Many of them are also Muslim, so surely the Jihadists wouldn't kill them?

[darkened day 92]

Depends what Jihad you are referring to. I'm guessing the "struggle by the sword", but remember that there are 4 other [more/on the same level of important(nce)] jihads too; "struggle by the mouth", "struggle by the heart", "struggle by the pen" and "struggle by the hand".

It doesn't necessarily have to be violent or advocate some Judaeo-Christian 'conspiracy' which the Qu'ran doesn't advocate.
That is exactly what jihad is.

[EwokUtopia]

On an interesting note, Lesser Jihad in the proper sense isnt allways violent in nature. There was a Hadith where someone asked Muhammed what the highest form of Jihad was, to which he replied "To speak truth in front of a Tyrant."

However, Islamism, as it is defined, is an inaccurate and highly simplistic interperetation of the Quran and Hadiths. Its basically taking literally the paradigms of the 7th century into the 21st. Most Muslims take the time in which the Quran was written into account. The ones who dont and become politically active are the Islamists.

[Dimentio]

I believe the two concepts are very similar. Jihad, Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism seem to have close parallels with Nazism. Both persecute certain religions and have paranoid feelings about these religions: Nazism posits a Jewish conspiracy and advocates the slaughter of Jews; Jihad posits a Judæo-Christian conspiracy and advocates the slaughter of Christians, Jews and ethnic 'Westerners'. Nazism advocates a state religion and the persecution of atheists; in much of the Islamic world (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania et cetera), apostasy is illegal and punishable by death.

Do not misunderstand me, I am not supporting Zionism and American Imperialism, but I would say that it primarily an economic issue and Islamophobia is a prejudice which I would say has the potential to develop into fascist sentiment, but at this stage it is not sufficiently mixed with nationalism and racism (at least not where I live) to be called fascism.

Your thoughts?

Jihad is a concept, one of the five pillars within islam, and means "struggle for God". It could be interpreted both as an inner struggle and as an external war to defend islamic nations or conquer non-islamic nations.

I'm sure you really meant islamism. I think some islamic ideologies, like banna-ism or khomenei-ism qualifies as fascist ideologies, since they are sharing some predominant similarities with fascism, as the class collaborationism and the petty bourgeoisie social basis.

[Devrim]

Jihad is a concept, one of the five pillars within islam, and means "struggle for God".

Except it isn't. The five pillars of Islam are
1) الشهادة Shahadah (profession of faith)
2) صلاة Salah/Namaz (prayer)
3) صوم Sawm (fasting)
4) كاة Zakat (alms)
5) حج Haj (pigrimage)

Devrim

[Awful Reality]

They don't advocate state capitalism, so no. I don't think that they are totalitarian either, rather theocratic.

They're not fascist.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It is not fascism in the classical sense of the word.

It is authoritarian however (assuming we are talking about Islamist beliefs here, and not just jihad as a general concept), and I've found that more and more people simply use the word "fascism" as a short hand for politics they find authoritarian and oppresive. Unfortunately.

[EricTheRed]

The concept of jihad isn't fascist, necessarily. Put against a back-drop of religious fascism, it is, though.

[Awful Reality]

Jihad is a Muslim concept.
Jihad as it it represented and manifested today has strongly Fascist tendecies- however, Jihad as a religious concept is not Fascist.

What a lot of people, mainly the religious right, don't understand is that Fascism is more complex and rooted in economic and social reasons than a bunch of 8 year olds in the street with AKs, fighting for whatever strongman in may be.

[Luís Henrique]

Jihad is thirteen centuries old, fascism is barely one.

Fascism is a specifical political movement within societies in transition to high capitalism; it requires a bourgeois State, a capitalist market, and a modern proletariat to exist. Nothing of these existed when the concept of Jihad was created.

So the question is ill-posited. It should be, is there a fascistic modern rereading of Jihadism?

Luís Henrique

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

What's up with this fashion of comparing everything to fascism? Simply because you don't like it, doesn't make it fascist.

[Crest]

You point things out as being similar to fascism, but you appear to have nada knowledge of what Jihad actually is. Jihad has NOTHING to do with a few radicalist *****es (who, may I add, are not a fascist society. I don't like 'um any more than the next guy who doesn't like them, but I would also point out that their politics have very little to do with capitalist vs. fascist vs. leftist things, and more to do with doing what they honestly believe to be ending corruption.), but more to do with struggle within oneself.

[redSHARP]

jihad is not really facism (in my view), it is more of a struggle against an injustice. This, like many other movements, can take a turn for the worst and lose its main goals and actually hurt the group and present a reactionary front (some that seem facist, but that is just by accident). It should be noted that the Koran (multiple spellings for the same thing), paints a picture were all life, economic, social, AND political structure is under the house of god. multiple jihads were declared with different goals and ideals, so it cant be generalized easily, if at all.

[RedFlagComrade]

Absolute nonsense. Jihad, Islam etc is a religion which is entirely different to a political orientation.

Jihad is no more a type of fascism than christianity is. Yes, it is deeply homophobic and reactionary but nowhere in the Qu'ran are there any hint of racial supremacy ideas which is fundamental to fascist propaganda.

Jihad isnt a religion its an islamic word for "religious war". Do you think it is reasonable to murder people because an ancient book supossedly gives you the right to, or because they believe in another good.

This acceptance of jihad as ok is another example of false leftism-siding with those whom authority are against even if they are worse-theres no equal rights for gays or women in islamic countries, no free speech, plenty of human rights abuse and torture, powerful organised religion, incredibly rich and powerful oligarchs in contrast with the many poverty-stricken people, totalitarian monarchs and dictators, pretty much everything we claim to be against. Im not stereotyping islam as an evil religion, merely pointing out that jihad and islamic law are indefensible.

[Rosa Provokateur]

Jihad isnt fascist, fascists just like to use the word. Cant blame em... it has a nice roll of the tongue to it.

[Comrade Rage]

Depends what Jihad you are referring to. I'm guessing the "struggle by the sword", but remember that there are 4 other [more/on the same level of important(nce)] jihads too; "struggle by the mouth", "struggle by the heart", "struggle by the pen" and "struggle by the hand".

It doesn't necessarily have to be violent or advocate some Judaeo-Christian 'conspiracy' which the Qu'ran doesn't advocate.That's an extremely succinct summary of what jihad is. It is not necessarily by means of violence. I still oppose it, being an anti-revisionist Marxist-Leninist as well as an atheist, but I oppose it based on that, rather than the sensationalist garbage stereotypes of it that are marketed by the media.

[Faux Real]

Jihad isnt a religion its an islamic word for "religious war".No, it's not. You've been watching too much FOX News. Jihad comes from the root word Jahada, meaning struggle. So Jihad means to struggle in the path of God, with the ends being bettering one's self or bettering society. There's the struggle of the self, the pen, mouth, hands, and sword--the struggle of the sword being the only permissible form of warfare, defense.

Do you think it is reasonable to murder people because an ancient book supossedly gives you the right to, or because they believe in another good.Which book is that? Muslims are not instructed kill others for believing in another religion, Muslims would hope for them to eventually "find the right path", and only two within the last century have executed people for apostasy Saudi Arabia and Iran.

This acceptance of jihad as ok is another example of false leftism-siding with those whom authority are against even if they are worseHow are Muslims worse than capitalists or the state?

theres no equal rights for gays or women in islamic countriesNor in just about every other country on earth. Every country needs complete equality in these areas.

no free speechWhat kind of 'free speech'? Besides that of criticizing the sham despots in the monarchy/dictatorship, which are hardly sanctioned in Islam but rather propped up and maintained in power by the "free world", it's about the same as countries in the non-Muslim world.

plenty of human rights abuse and tortureOn the orders of the United States, why ignore that?

powerful organised religionThat's the case in just about every country except the Scandinavian countries, though yes religion plays a role in these societies.

incredibly rich and powerful oligarchs in contrast with the many poverty-stricken peopleWelcome to the workings of the capitalist system. There are capitalists in every region of the world (bar the fragile 'socialist' economies of Cuba and N Korea).

totalitarian monarchs and dictators, pretty much everything we claim to be against.Islam doesn't command people to submit to false human authority (atheists would say 'but he commands people to submit to his false god authority' :P), so centralized statehood is something antithetical to Islam, and dictators/monarchs/etc. are all unjust and cannot bear the name of the religion.

Im not stereotyping islam as an evil religion, merely pointing out that jihad and islamic law are indefensible.You should start by revising what you mean by Jihad if you're truly not stereotyping it.

[Autonome-Antifa]

I think its a group of freedom fighters not my freedom by the way.

[#FF0000]

Is "Jihad" fascism? No.

Is extremist Islam fascism? No. Fascism is something very specific, as posters before me have mentioned.

It's just very reactionary, as any extremist religious interpretation is. I think it's just best to leave it at that.

[commiesinger]

first i have a deep respect for Islam as a religion. But i agree that the extremists in the middle east are fascist. they have no respect for basic human rights.

Jihad is a Islamic religious word for the struggle of everyman.

but it is also the word coined originally by Saddam to mean holy war. that is why the media uses it that way along with trying to get more war support through hate.

I do not support America in any way for the war they are fighting. Saddam's wars on for oil could have brought on a world wide economic problem which could have brought the world into economic depression (why gas cost so damn much). so to stop the problem America give Saddam weapons and money which are later used by the extremists today to fight who? America. Only because they want a stable government run by it's own people which they do not have. so in the process fascist Islamic factions formed all trying to get power for themselves. in the precess though many are discriminated against mainly women and non Muslims.