Skins, please define the term fascism?

[A_Ciarra]

I'm confused. I usually use the term FASCISM to mean corporate or neo-corporate control of the government and/or military (as defined by Benito Mussolini).When you redskins, trojans, skins, etc., use the term fascism, are you using it in a different way, mainly (and strictly) to denote RACISM??? Or are you using the term both way's? Or even using the term in MANY way's, more way's than just racism and/or corporate control, and if so please briefly explain for me.

We all use the term fascist to signify an authoritarian, so we can ignore that usage for the purpose's of this thread.

By the way, I guess the fascism page makes the top 100 list on Wikipedia as one of the most hotly debated terms there, so I know the topic over all is pretty controversial, I'm mainly wondering WHAT THE SKINS MEAN. **I'm not meaning to start an argument over the proper meaning of the term, so please leave this one to skins. Thanks.
:star:

[The Douche]

People throw the word fascism around like crazy, and use it really ignorantly. People will call any racism "fascist", people will call nationalists "fascists", people will call George Bush a "fascist", people call Stalin a "fascist". It gets thrown at anything people don't like.

Even your definition is flawed. Probably because you're trying to over-simplify it. Its not corporate control its a merger of state power and corporate power, but thats just one part of fascism. If you want to get really technical then Fascism is a sort of spiritual philosophy much more than a political ideology. Fascism is better defined by the works of Julius Evola than anybody else.

I would define fascism as "the idea that the state is the fullest expression of a culture/nation, as such it embodies all the best things of the culture/nation and should hold supreme power, all interests, personal, corporate, and military should be exercised in the best interests of the state/nation". And I am a skinhead. But, when a skinhead or anybody else for that matter calls themselves antifa that doesn't mean they are against the above. Antifa is just a title now layed upon any left wing anti-racist. (its also an organization in the UK)

[A_Ciarra]

Cmoney, this raises even more questions for me, but that's all good.

I agree with the the expanded definition of the whole corporate and state military structures MERGING their powers that defines fascism accurately, but I have to keep my post short as I have a tendency to get off the point when going into details.

I understand where groups such as RASH and SHARP are coming from (SHARP to a lesser extent), but you are saying that ANTIFA is not necessarily anti racist???

And then to clarify a related post I have in the ANTIFA section (maybe we should move this conversation there), are you saying that the ANTIFA groups dentify as pretty much strictly a skin group? But that ANTIFA members can certainly be racist, as well as right wing (much like some of the SHARPS)?

[Bazza]

ANTIFA isn't a skin group. It's made up of members of the Anarchist Federation, Class War, and No Platform.

You can find out more via their website - http://www.antifa.org.uk/index.html

[Bazza]

Also ANTIFA shouldn't be confused with AFA although they share similar beliefs & aims.

[Lenin II]

These quotes from Mussolini may be useful to you in understanding the fascist way of thinking:
"If it is admitted that the nineteenth century has been the century of Socialism, Liberalism and Democracy, it does not follow that the twentieth must also be the century of Liberalism, Socialism and Democracy. Political doctrines pass; peoples remain. It is to be expected that this century may be that of authority, a century of the "Right," a Fascist century."

"The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived of in their relation to the State. The "Liberal State" is not a directing force, guiding the play and development (both material and spiritual) of a collective body, but merely a force limited to the function of recording results. On the other hand, the Fascist State is itself conscious, and has itself a will and a personality-thus it may be called the "ethical" State...."

"The individual in the Fascist State is not annulled but rather multiplied, just in the same way that a soldier in a regiment is not diminished but rather increased by the number of his comrades. The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone...."


"The Fascist State is an embodied will to power and government, the idea of force in action. According to Fascism, government is not so much a thing to be expressed in territorial or military terms as in terms of morality and spirit."

[The Douche]

I understand where groups such as RASH and SHARP are coming from (SHARP to a lesser extent), but you are saying that ANTIFA is not necessarily anti racist???

Absolutely not. I'm sorry if I worded my response poorly so as to give you that impression. Racism is a part of fascism, contrary to what some fascists will try to claim, Italy as a "nation" (a group of people sharing similar culture, customs, language, history etc) is "white". The state emerges as the natural expression of the nation, and by default the race. Fascists seek to make all people/corporations/organizations subservient to the needs of the state and by extension the race or nation. All fascists are racists, not all racists are fascist (the KKK being a good example of non-fascist racism). Antifa are therefor anti racist. But by calling oneself anti-fascist as opposed to anti-racist, in the skinhead scene, gives everyone a signal that you are left wing.


And then to clarify a related post I have in the ANTIFA section (maybe we should move this conversation there), are you saying that the ANTIFA groups dentify as pretty much strictly a skin group?

Absolutely not, the majority of antifascist groups I know do not have majority skinhead membership, and the antifa and anti-racist elements of the skinhead scene (at least in the states) are a minority. (trad/non-racist skins being the majority of the scene)


But that ANTIFA members can certainly be racist, as well as right wing (much like some of the SHARPS)?

No, anti-fascists, cannot be racist. Anti-racism is a part of anti-fascism. But yes, you can oppose fascism from the libertarian right, as many SHARPs do, but within the context of the skinhead scene such people would not identify as anti-fascist, and would prefer to call themselves anti-racist, if anything at all.

PS...SHARP is a largely defunct group now in the US and is more of a title/patch people wear. Though in certain areas it is still relatively strong.

[RadioRaheem84]

The first Italian Fascists were syndicalists and Marxist heretics. They worked on the ideas of late syndicalist Georges Sorrell. Before WWII the syndicalist camp then split into two major groups; nationalists and anarchists. The Nationalists then merged with other right authoritarian groups (Carlists of Spain, Monarchy of Italy, the industrialists in Germany) and later became the Fascists.

It's an extreme collectivist ideology that works on a syndicalist model but has certain unions called 'corporations' run the negotiations between the worker and the owners of industry. Instead of the workers owning the plant, the railroads, etc. they have "equal" say in some state-run labor union or 'corporation'. This is somehow supposed to eliminate the appearence of social classes without actually eliminating them. I guess they were trying to appease the masses by telling them that they are all important cogs in a well oiled machine.

In a nutshell, from I studied, Fascism was a return to the Guild Socialism/Syndicalism of the Middle Ages. A rejection of the englightenment and a return to Greco-tribalism. Think Sparta.

[A_Ciarra]

Thanks Cmoney, good post.

I've been a little confused when hearing left-wing skins use the term fascism because obviously they are using the term in a broader sense than some rather sanitized "text book" definition.

When a skin would say fascism, it would leave me thinking skins may be defining the term in MORE WAY'S than we discussed about Mussolini above AND racism. For clarity the skins I'm speaking of would be the skins on THIS board - redskins! I could give a shit what other skins mean. I'm just concerned with the opinions of redskins. But when hearing them speak, their broader use of the term would make me wonder what ALL are THEY saying when they use the term!!! To understand a group, or include yourself in a group, ya better damn well understand their views. That is unless your a bonehead and don't care to apply questioning at all...

Anyway, when you clarified about ANTIFA you pretty much explained my question. The way I now understand left wing skins to be using the term; they are pretty much strictly using it to denote racism and supremacy - and maybe to a lesser extent racism mixed with corporate fascism. So skins are using the term to apply STRICTLY to supremacy and racist groups ---- and not just a institutionalized corporate state with it's racism.

With my initial question I was really wondering if redskins meant the term in ANY OTHER WAY (casual sarcasm not included), but after receiving some help here, I think it is safe to say NO. Redskins ONLY use the term to denote either racism and supremacy groups - or nationalistic, corporate fascism (which always holds racist element's).

It's the actual application of a broader definition that threw me off. I know what is typically meant by fascism, but I needed to know how much skins included in THEIR usage of the term (and what they do not). And of course by "broad" I don't me mean misusing the term. I mean broad in the sense of capturing a term in it's fullest and most accurate.

Right on! Thank you much. :D