Which socialist said that?

[Solzhenitsyn]

"And for the rest--those swarms of black and brown and yellow
people who do not come into the new needs of efficiency?

"Well, the world is a world, not a charitable institution, and I
take it they will have to go. The whole tenor and meaning of the
world, as I see it, is that they have to go. So far as they fail to
develop sane, vigorous, and distinctive personalities for the great
world of the future, it is their portion to die out and disappear."

[Solzhenitsyn]

And another quote different Socialist though:

Joseph Stalin was a great man; few other men of the 20th century approach his stature. He was simple, calm and courageous. He seldom lost his poise, pondered his problems slowly, made his decisions clearly and firmly; never yielded to ostentation nor coyly refrained from holding his rightful place with dignity. ... Stalin was not a man of conventional learning; he was much more than that; he was a man who thought deeply, read understandingly and listened to wisdom, no matter whence it came. He was attacked and slandered as few men of power have been; yet he seldom lost his courtesy and balance. ... His judgment of men was profound. He early saw through the flamboyance and exhibitionism of Trotsky, who fooled the world, and especially America. The whole ill-bred and insulting attitude of Liberals in the U.S. today began with our naive acceptance of Trotsky's magnificent lying propaganda, which he carried around the world. Against it Stalin stood like a rock and moved neither right nor left, as he continued to advance toward a real socialism instead of the sham Trotsky offered. ... Such was the man who lies dead, still the butt of noisy jackals and of the ill-bred men of some parts of the distempered West. In life he suffered under continuous and studied insult; he was forced to make bitter decisions on his own lone responsibility. His reward comes as the common man stands in solemn acclaim."

[antitrot]

The second quote is good. :)

[I Will Deny You]

The second one is W.E.B. Dubois, a man who would have punched the person who said the first thing in the face.

[Solzhenitsyn]

I Will Deny You is half-correct. WEB Dubois did indeed lavishly praise notorious mass murderer I.V. Stalin. Dubois did however openly work with the author of the first quote. The quote by DuBois is from "The National Guardian," 16 March 1953.



(Edited by Solzhenitsyn at 10:29 pm on April 14, 2002)

[antitrot]

That's an interestin' quote there, Schlotzsky.

[PunkRawker677]

i just realized your signature
"everyone equally poor" or whatever...

if everyone is equal.. then there is no poor or rich..

everyone poor is the same exact thing as everyone rich.. and you are basing that statemet (quite oviously) on money.. perhaps everyone could be poor in dollars yet rich in family and society..

whoever said the first deserves to get punched in the face.. i didnt read the second..

[Solzhenitsyn]

The first quote is from novelist and prominent Marxist true believer H.G. Wells.

[Moskitto]

Which socialist said,

"Whan Adam dalf, and Eve span, Wo was thanne a gentilman?”

Which socialist said,

"The sovereignty and liberty of a people are not to be discussed, but rather defended with weapons in hand."

[Malvinas Argentinas]

is the second one Che???

[RedCeltic]

Oh yea? How said this?

"Similarly, a socialist response to what is happening under Gorbachev in the Soviet Union would not simply stress the importance of pursuing peace negotiations even more vigorously in order to encourage Glasnost and Perestroika. It would put Gorbachev's progressive, but technocratic, reforms in the context of an analysis which would see bureaucratic resistance to change in the Soviet Union as a function of an anti-democratic system of power in which even positive initiatives are initiated behind the backs of the people. And it would argue that American unilateral peace initiatives toward verifiable Big Power agreements may well- and hopefully will- create the long run conditions for a democratization of Soviet society which goes beyond anything now on the agenda in Moscow."

No... not every socialist is pro soviet.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 7:46 pm on April 15, 2002)

[Moskitto]

No the second one is not Che

I somehow daubt that Solzhenitsyn will know the first one because his knowledge of socialism probably doesn't extend to that level (infact i'd be surprised if anyone will get the first one)

[Guest]

come on moskito, aren't you a "ballist"

and I know I said the other one, just not like that, its a more subtle translation. Moreover I would hardly call sandino a socialist in the sense that his sandinistas were, he was more of a nationalist. I'm not denying his political leanings towards agrarian reform etc, just saying sandino did not have a political concept of himself as a socialist.

Moreover Redceltics quote shows a socialist's betrayal of popular sovereingty for the sake of preserving their ideology. This, ofcourse, is to be expected; but understand that Harrington is saying he'd prefer a democratization of soviet society, which would allow for the perservation of the socialist union. This preservation would then have run counter to the desires for national independence that were harbored by the different republics of the Union. So contrary to what you said harrington is implying his support for the soviet union.

[Guest]

oh yeah this is augusto sandino

[RedCeltic]

I disagree Agusto.. Harrington's argument was strongly for Democracy, as the USSR was a totalitarian state a man who has spoken and writen in great detail about the need for democracy and socialism would never support it. Democratic socialists like Harrington consider both capitalism and totolitarianism to be great evils.

[Ernest Everhard]

yes he supported democracy,and if you read his post it implies that this democratization would relieve the contradictions in soviet society and allow the union to exists. Unfortunately for soviet partisans, but fortunately for the sake of the free world, harrington would've been wrong. The people within the union, namely the overwhelming majority of people in the non russian republics did not want to persist with the union. Harrington hopes that the soviet union will remain, democratically for sure, but against the desires of millions of non russian ethnics.

[Nateddi]

Agusto, is this really you?

[RedCeltic]

*Sigh*

Ok Agusto, you have a point. He was probobly shortsighted in that respect.

Oh... and a question... Why Ernest Everhard? Why not a variation of your former username? Agusto-S or something?

Well no matter..

(Edited by RedCeltic at 10:45 am on April 17, 2002)

[Moskitto]

Go to http://www.sandino.org

All of the guestbook entries are very strange.

And yes the first one is John Ball. Except there are not that many people who know who he is. I've only seen one paintning of him and I can't find it anywhere on the internet. John Ball basically believed that the church had corrupted Christian teachings and believed that the bible actually preaches egalitarianism.

[Ernest Everhard]

oh, ernest everhard was from that london book, the iron heel, he was this skilled socialist polemicist. Its a good book you should check it out if you havent