The Evils of Capitalism

[Michael De Panama]

I want all the capitalists to see this, but chosen not to copy and paste the whole thing. That kind of work is left for Peaccenicked. Anyways...

Attention all capitalists,
GO TO THIS WEBSITE:

http://www.uniteunion.org/pressbox/nike-report.html

Justify that.

[IzmSchism]

.15 cents an hour,
+5 bucks a shoe in material
+5 bucks a shoe in other variable costs and fixed costs
----------------------------------
120 USD for shoes

=an over marketed piece of shit that exploits fellow human beings

the only nike shoe I have is a play toy for my dog, he attacks that muther fucker hard

[Solzhenitsyn]

I suppose Nike can just close up and let the workers go back to prostitution or small scale agriculture.

I do agree with red that Nikes are overmarketed and not of high quality.

[Michael De Panama]

You insensitive capitalist scum. We do not suggest the factories to not exist. We suggest that they exist under conditions where the workers can actually survive. Capitalism, however, thrives on the exploitation of the proletariat.

[Blackberry]

Quote: from IzmSchism on 11:26 pm on April 13, 2002

the only nike shoe I have is a play toy for my dog, he attacks that muther fucker hard


:D

[Guest]

What do the students in Cuba get for working all day on the Sugar fields in their free time.

Student: I don't want to work on the fields, I just want to live my own life.
Castro: You are anti-revolution and should be re-educated, that means your family will suffer if you do not listen to what we say.

[PunkRawker677]

Guest, your a moron.. You do VOLUNTARY work in whatever is needed..

in the US (and this is what i currently pay at a shitty community colege), it costs 3000 a semester, plus 500 for books, thats 3500 for books.. times that by 4 (4 semesters, some students chose to take three, most take four) that equals 14000.. now a 19 year old, living in an apartment which costs AT LEAST 800 a month (9600 a year) plus all utilities, for the sake of argument lets say 200 (even tho we all know its MUCH more than that).. thats 2400 a year.. now, food, lets say 150 a month which is 1800 a year.. lets pretend no one needs clothes, or furniture, or internet access, or computer, or paper, or anything else.. thats 27800 (if i did the math right).. VERY VERY FEW 19 year olds make 25000+ a year... VERY FEW.. and to make this money you would have to work 40 hours a week - nights and weekends - leaving very little time to study or relax.. so, if your parents are not wealthy and cannot help you out economically then you are FUCKED..

dont tell me this is bullshit.. im fucking living it.. i have to think twice when i go to buy food because i gotta save every last penny i got..

voluntary work in cuba is usually 1-3 days a week for about 3 to 4 hours a day.. thats about 12 hours at most a week.. and when you go to school you dont have to pay for anything.. and considering there literacy rate is much higher than most of the worlds, dont try to pull that bullshit..

all i gotta say..

send me to the muther fuckin sugar fields.. ill work my ass off happily..

my father left cuba in the 1970s (and regrets it) and his family was not punished and me and him are allowed to visit as we please.. so, they dont 'punish' your family for anything..

[reagan lives]

"Capitalism, however, thrives on the exploitation of the proletariat."
Wrong, wrong, wrong. You clearly don't know the first thing about capitalism. Exploitation of any group of people, in fact, hurts the capitalist system. Actually, that's not an entirely accurate statement, since exploitation is impossible under capitalism. The treatment of workers in the Third World by the factories that MNC's contract to is atrocious. But the blame lies first upon the doorsteps of the governments that allow their people to work under ridiculous conditions in exchange for fat payoffs. I'll say it again: it's really romantic to go out and protest against these corporations. I'm sure it helps you to sleep better at night if you make a conscious decision not to buy Nike sneakers. But if you were really serious about enacting change, you'd realize that the problem here is that exploited workers live under inferior systems. And the reform has to occur there. Who here would say that getting Nike to lean on the factory owners they contract with would improve human rights in any nation? Yes, if one country puts into place the proper legal and economic institutions, the factory contractors will leave said country. But the only people that will suffer from this will be the corrupt officials who have been taking kickbacks. Third World economies are hindered by the presence of international manufacturers...it amounts to an export of labor, just as if they could fly their workers to industrialized nations every morning. A serious analysis of the plight of the Third World forms a pretty good argument in favor of capitalism, rather than one against it. Everyone here keeps saying that "capitalism thrives on exploitation" and "America can only remain so wealthy by abusing the Third World." These statements are simply false...they have no basis whatsoever in economics.

[Guest]

but surely corporations like nike are responsible for the conditions as they set up the factories themselves and their conditions. They know how long their workers would work for and realise they are in fact been exploited. If Nike was so noble it would not set up shop in the Third World knowing that because of its companies and their atrocious conditions workers are been exploited.

[Michael De Panama]

First off, since this is my thread, let me establish a rule here:
Capitalists, there will be NO comparisons to Cuba. I personally do not support the way things went in Cuba, and I see them as completely opposite of everything a classless society is supposed to represent. There will also be NO comparisons to the USSR. The USSR authoritarian Stalinist regime exploited the fuck out of their workers, just as any capitalist system. Communism is a purely democratic system.

Reagan Lives, what you are proposing is not capitalism, it is capitalism with intervention. A controlled free market. Just like socialism. The only possible way for capitalism to escape it's evils is if it escapes itself altogether. What you are proposing is that there MUST be government intervention. Regardless of whether or not it's labor laws or equal distribution of the property, all of this relates back to OUR side.

When it all comes down to it, however, it is not the government who is exploiting the workers, it is the factories. The governments simply allow this to happen. They allow it to happen because it is economically beneficial.

Capitalism is not harmed by the exploitation of the proletariat unless it has exploited them too much to the point where they can no longer work. The very bare minimum is all that should be given for the bourgeoisie to rake in the most profit. You know this.

[Guest]

Reagan Lives, from work:
"what you are proposing is not capitalism, it is capitalism with intervention. A controlled free market. Just like socialism."
This is getting frustrating. I'll say it one more time: capitalism DOES NOT equal the absolute 100% free market. Market controls like minimum wage, health and safety regulations, and labor unions are ENTIRELY capitalist (as Smith defined it), and have NOTHING to do with socialism. I don't know which left-wing hootenanny started the rumor that these were socialist ideas and that the presence of government itself is indeed anti-capitalist. Capitalism, my friend, has no problem with governmental controls that FOSTER COMPETITION AND EFFICIENCY as long as private property rights are maintained and contractual law is upheld. You socialists parade around here patting each others asses and congratulating yourselves for being so much more informed than the public, who know nothing about socialism...and then you, in turn, show that you don't know the first thing about capitalism. Go read a book (that's not by Noam Chomsky).

[Anarcho]

$33 monthly.
$396 annual income.

Indonesian GNI according to World Bank- $570

So that's not actually that bad. Under the GNI, but liveable, I think.

The problem has a solution, and it's not to tear down Nike, or each other.

If Indonesia would implement laws, stating that there is a minimum pay for work, the Nike Co. would have to abide by that. The workers could get paid a livable wage that would allow for more personal funds.

So why aren't there movements within Indonesia, etc. to do this?

[libereco]

I don't know about the case of Indonesia, but if they're in the WTO, then they can't pass laws like that without facing big ass sanctions.

Also sadly most 3rd world governments are pretty fucking corrupt - and the people can't pay as good as nike.

[libereco]

Quote: from Guest on 3:27 pm on April 14, 2002
Reagan Lives, from work:
"what you are proposing is not capitalism, it is capitalism with intervention. A controlled free market. Just like socialism."
This is getting frustrating. I'll say it one more time: capitalism DOES NOT equal the absolute 100% free market. Market controls like minimum wage, health and safety regulations, and labor unions are ENTIRELY capitalist (as Smith defined it), and have NOTHING to do with socialism. I don't know which left-wing hootenanny started the rumor that these were socialist ideas and that the presence of government itself is indeed anti-capitalist. Capitalism, my friend, has no problem with governmental controls that FOSTER COMPETITION AND EFFICIENCY as long as private property rights are maintained and contractual law is upheld. You socialists parade around here patting each others asses and congratulating yourselves for being so much more informed than the public, who know nothing about socialism...and then you, in turn, show that you don't know the first thing about capitalism. Go read a book (that's not by Noam Chomsky).


actually Noam Chomsky acknowledges Smiths thoughts...at least in the books I read.

Yet that can't be said about every capitalist, and in practice, without workers fighting for their rights (it's rarely the "capitalist" workers rising up for some reason) people would still be exploited today as they were in the early 19th century.

[Anarcho]

Quote: from libereco on 1:42 pm on April 17, 2002
I don't know about the case of Indonesia, but if they're in the WTO, then they can't pass laws like that without facing big ass sanctions.

Also sadly most 3rd world governments are pretty fucking corrupt - and the people can't pay as good as nike.


So, instead of focusing on a mega-corp like Nike, it would be easier in the long run (and even in the short run, IMHO) to fight the government in the 3rd world countries to establish fair workers rights and practices.