Capitalists do you think greed is Good?

[Communist Dominion]

Well after years of debating on this matter ive found that greed is not human nature as many capitalists say proves the impossiblility of communism.
It is not true.
Greed is created by free market and the possibility of wealth and power , even a small amount will plant the seed of greed, people dont realise the damage that it is doing, I mean when the collective farms of the USSR started to fail because of the more "lucritive" free market, did those farmers realise that now that food may not reach a region out of the free market range, No!
if they were only educated a little more about the resons for the collective farms , the people would not of been corrupted by the US .

[Anarcho]

<---- not a real capitalist

But as I told you before, under my name on IC, Greed is inherent in human nature. Greed has existed in all cultures, thoughout time.

In the Eastern Bloc, nations that had a whole generation born and raised in Communist/Socialist society still have greed, and ambition.

Note: I no longer think that Human Nature denies the existance of a communist state, I feel that the nature of government does so. To change that, one must come up with a new governmental nature.

So far I haven't seen that.

[BOZG]

Not a capitalist at all

I don't think greed is a part of human nature but growing up in a society based on greed does tend to pollute the mind. Destroy greed and it will not come back.

[Maaja]

In the Eastern Bloc, nations that had a whole generation born and raised in Communist/Socialist society still have greed, and ambition.



I come from the Eastern Block and there are some things I would love to explain. First of all I don't consider the Sovietic time Communist/Socialist and here are also a lot of people who don't think greed is a natural part of human nature, take me fore example!

[Anarcho]

Majja- On that vein, do you think that greed is inherently part of the capitalist system?

[Guest]

First of all any serious discussion on the topic can not include any appeal to 'human nature' a term that remains, not without lack of trying, undefined.

Secondly is Greed good? the answer is no. But you seem to imply that all self-interest is greed, that is hardly the case. People should aspire to attain what ever they aspire to (funny sentence). Is this greed, I don't see how wanting anything constitutes greed.

Isn't socialism a proclaimed materialistic ideology, its immediate concern is with the distribution of production. Isn't it greedy? Doesn't it presume that the worker should want more, particularly more of things that he has no legal or moral claim to in many cases (I will refer you to the argument regarding the ethics of capitalism, my post page 2 agusto sandino).
Greed is hardly the motivating force behind capitalism, anyone who says so is crudely presenting the facts. The driving force behind capitalism is desire and ambition, they are the fuel behind capitalism's unquestionable benefits and its productivity.

[Guest]

last thought, you said greed is "created by the free market and the possibility of wealth." There is no logic to that statement.

What then creates the free market or the possibility of wealth. Did these things arise naturally to the plant the seed of greed into the human psyche.

Agusto Sandino Really needinghis password.

[guerrillaradio]

Human nature is not as clear-cut as capitalists and communists like to make it out to be. We have to remember that, as human beings, we are very different. We have different ideas of morality and we have varying degrees of how much we apply our principles. Therefore, human nature cannot be defined as such. However, undoubtedly, a large proportion of people would be greedy given the opportunity, with or without capitalism. I think communists getting all excited about the greed and corruption of capitalism should ask themselves why so many (if not every) communist leader has been corrupt and greedy himself. The argument that so-called communist states and leaders do not count cannot apply here. How do you intend to keep a communist leader and his minions from greed then??

[RedCeltic]

*** Just a side note to Agusto***

When you find your password again be sure to go into your profile in the bar at the top... you can change your password to something you'll always remember...

[Valkyrie]

Human Nature is defined as a characteristic inherent in every human species, which remains permanent and unchangeable; indiscriminate of race, age, gender, ethinicity, locality, status, upbringing
life experience... (such as self-preservation, hunger, [perhaps also the ability to reason and think and communicate)

After years of debating this with myself, I would have to say that 'No , greed is not apparent in every human being' but rather the ego is in it's desire of self-preservation, .. and in that respect inherent egotistical apathy in light of self-preservation in a capitatist society is the causation of greed and power.

[Guest]

well said guest 160

[Guest]

god forbid competition and working for a hard earned dollar. it's livelihood... earning your keep.

[Xvall]

No one's forbiding your 'Hard earned dollar', but fact is, your boss probably made a thousand out of that 'dollar' you recieved.

- Drake Dracoli

[Communist Dominion]

GREED IS NOT HUMEN NATURE, may i remind you that the USSR emplaced small amounts of free market (bad idea) in the agricultral society. This provided the people witha taste of capitalism, it was good for them, at the expense of others getting their food.

Do you think capitalist russia is better than the USSR? well russian elections will be soon. And Corrupt and greedy? well please tell me which leader was greedy, and corruption, well the US leaders were constantly flouting their riches.

[Anarcho]

CD- I'm going to throw a hard one out here. Can you give me an example of a society that had no greed in history?

I can give you an example of greed in every culture I've thought of or studied. And I've studied quite a few.

So there it is.

If your viewpoint is valid, and not inherently flawed, you should be able to point out numerous cultures that have no signs of greed. You should be able to show proof of large groups working together, all as equals, striving towards a greater good, with no worry about the individual.

I'd like to see it.

[Guest]

so my boss made more money than i. so the frick what? he's older, more experienced, has more education than i hence he deserves it. it's his money, his idea, he worked for it. it's commerce, FREE market. russia's economy is actually doing better now since they have a free market (national geographic, nov. 2001). production was low when government was everywhere and in everything, they had no real reason to work that is nothing to really work for, no benefits, no perks. greed is NOT human nature? how can you be so sure? so to want is evil? where do you get your basis for what is "human nature"? let's do this from a logical stance, i'm not trying to put you down or try to prove you wrong. i'm trying to figure out what works and what's right. too often on this forum it seems we go for personal attacks, i'm trying not to head that way so please dont get me wrong. let's talk, let's figure this out. as i've stated in past posts: i'm open to change but just prove it, corner me, inspire me, change my mind.

[Guest]

under communisme:
Greed leads to getting the same pay as everyone else.
the same pay as everyone else leads to anger
anger leads to not working and fleeing to Calafornia
fleeing to Calafornia leads to freedom.

Under "capatilisme":
Greed leads to Motivation
Motivation leads to Hard-Work
Hard-Work leads to Prosperity
Prosperity leads to the Light-Side


-----Yoda the wise----