Child abuse - the Christian way

[Red_or_Dead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP-s3AV9Kzs

Comments?

[Dyslexia! Well I Never!]

Revolting.

Religion, like peadophiles should be kept well away from children.

[Red_or_Dead]

Revolting.

Religion, like peadophiles should be kept well away from children.


Yeah, they have a lot in common, nowadays.

[STI]

I'd like to see a follow-up on these kids' mental health in ten or fifteen years.

[RHIZOMES]

Disgusting.

[Maybe-not]

This is sick. This is exactly why legal measures should be taken against churches, and religious schools.



Revolting.

Religion, like pedophiles should be kept well away from children.

Enough with the pedophile-bashing. There is nothing wrong, in it self, with being a pedophile, it is just a sexual attraction, not a crime. If we truely strive to be unbiased, stop saying pedophile, say Child Molester. Those two things are very different.

[Red_or_Dead]

Enough with the pedophile-bashing. There is nothing wrong, in it self, with being a pedophile, it is just a sexual attraction, not a crime. If we truely strive to be unbiased, stop saying pedophile, say Child Molester. Those two things are very different.

I never looked at it this way, and I agree with your statement.


Also, I agree that legal measures should be taken against such institusions, or in this case, parents.

[Bandito]

Right.
Child molesters can be closely determined as rapists,although there are certain differencies in the motive and manner.
Pedophiles are sexually atracted,or even in love.
If they control themselves and do nothing about it as a result of logical conclusion that their behaviour will hurt someone,that is ok.
If they do,they are child molesters.

[darkened day 92]

It's insulting to the religion itself these kids heard a couple of stories but they have no rational understanding. I mean it's okay to teach ur kid to be religous but to actually preach you need to understand the dimensions of the philosphy of religion. It's impossible for kids that are 7 to understand that just impossible it put loads of pressure on them. the blond kid talks about abortion he doesn't even understand where babies come from. it is absurd and scary.

[Bud Struggle]

I'm a Christian--and for what it's worth, I agree--that's child abuse.

[Sankofa]

Yikes, gave me chills just watching...:scared:

And you guys say it's the North Koreans who are brainwashed!

[Bud Struggle]

Yikes, gave me chills just watching...:scared:

And you guys say it's the North Koreans who are brainwashed!

There is a difference between brainwashing one kid and an entire nation.

[Red_or_Dead]

It's insulting to the religion itself these kids heard a couple of stories but they have no rational understanding. I mean it's okay to teach ur kid to be religous but to actually preach you need to understand the dimensions of the philosphy of religion. It's impossible for kids that are 7 to understand that just impossible it put loads of pressure on them. the blond kid talks about abortion he doesn't even understand where babies come from. it is absurd and scary.


Exactly. And they say that he started preaching at 3. When I was three, I didnt even know what a Bible is! Not that he really does, either.


Also, did you hguys catch the sign in the back ground that called abortion a "Black genocide" ? :scared:

I think so. Whats that supposed to mean, anyway?

[Marsella]

I'm a Christian--and for what it's worth, I agree--that's child abuse.

If you are a Christian, then you would believe what the father says at 4:50: 'God's used animals, I mean he used a donkey. A donkey spoke and saved a man's life.'

But surely you wouldn't believe in that, why that's just silly!

[Marsella]

It's insulting to the religion itself these kids heard a couple of stories but they have no rational understanding.

Adults believe this nonsense too.

They have no rational understanding, because the bible, and all other religious texts, are irrational.

Religion is a farce by itself, because it is wrong.


I mean it's okay to teach ur kid to be religous but to actually preach you need to understand the dimensions of the philosphy of religion.

No it is not okay to teach your child, or anyone, religious trash. Children do not have even the capability of some sort of rational coherence. And nor should preaching to adults be tolerated.

Besides, those who are religious do preach one way or another, regardless if they do not do so on the platform of a church.

[Sankofa]

There is a difference between brainwashing one kid and an entire nation.

Wrong. Brain washing is brain washing. Especially when you consider there are hundreds of millions of kids just like this being brainwashed into religion.

[Marsella]

True, religious brain-washing far outnumbers the idol worshipping of 'communist' states.

http://www.adherents.com/images/rel_pie.gif

[Dyslexia! Well I Never!]

I was originally wondering to say peadophiles or pornography but then again obscene images don't actually harm children, whereas being mentally raped by religion or physically by a childmolesting peadophile does.



Enough with the pedophile-bashing. There is nothing wrong, in it self, with being a pedophile, it is just a sexual attraction, not a crime. If we truely strive to be unbiased, stop saying pedophile, say Child Molester. Those two things are very different.

Maybe I could have qualified it by saying "sexually active child molesting peadophiles acting upon this the primary desire of their sexual orientation." Then again I thought that people would understand that was my implication.

Why should two groups who would rape children be it in body or mind be treated differently to people who would rape adults, animals or corpses.

On second thought I'd rather throw children into enormous pits of rabid child molesters for the entirety their formative years than place them into the hands of a church. At least a child molester would only fuck you for 16 years and you could arrest him for it. A religion can fuck you for life and they get off scot free.

[Atrus]

I'm Christian, in my own way [independant of the Church, my own beliefs based around Christianity], and this is NOT about religion as a whole, so I'd thank you to stop generalising, but I do agree that this is entirely wrong.

[darkened day 92]

Adults believe this nonsense too.
No it is not okay to teach your child, or anyone, religious trash. Children do not have even the capability of some sort of rational coherence. And nor should preaching to adults be tolerated.
Besides, those who are religious do preach one way or another, regardless if they do not do so on the platform of a church.
We all preach in a sort of way if i teach my baby sister that she shouldn't lie i am preaching a moral which i believe would build a good character. The hatred that some leftist show towards religion does not show tolerence and repels a lot of people now that you don't believe in god is one thing and saying that it should not be tolerated is another. People should be allowed to believe in what they want to believe in and it should not be up to anyone to tolerate it or not. The fact that child does what he does is absurd and it sucks because people take masters in religous studies and teach it in grad schools it's not right to make a child who in nature totally ignorant on what he is preaching to do that., He can't present the religion and political opinions such as abortion is forced on him by his parents which is brainwashing

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

We all preach in a sort of way if i teach my baby sister that she shouldn't lie i am preaching a moral which i believe would build a good character.

Yes, but there's a difference between telling kids that lying is wrong and hurts people (and leaving the complicated philosophical arguments for when they're bigger) and telling kids that if they lie God will be angry with them and burn them in Hell for ever and ever.


The hatred that some leftist show towards religion does not show tolerence and repels a lot of people now that you don't believe in god is one thing and saying that it should not be tolerated is another.

Grammar motherfucker, do you use it?


People should be allowed to believe in what they want to believe in and it should not be up to anyone to tolerate it or not.

There's a difference between allowing mature adults to believe in what they want and allowing those same adults to indoctrinate mentally defenceless kids with those asinine beliefs.


The fact that child does what he does is absurd and it sucks because people take masters in religous studies and teach it in grad schools it's not right to make a child who in nature totally ignorant on what he is preaching to do that., He can't present the religion and political opinions such as abortion is forced on him by his parents which is brainwashing

If English is your first language, and with a heavy sense of dread I suspect it is, then you are an utter failure of a human being. Try making your point without sounding like you were homeschooled.

[Faux Real]

She's Egyptian. Take it easy on her??

[Atrus]

Grammar motherfucker, do you use it?



If English is your first language, and with a heavy sense of dread I suspect it is, then you are an utter failure of a human being. Try making your point without sounding like you were homeschooled.

I'm not taking a side in the argument, but everyone can tell that you've run out of points or been stumped when you resort to simple insults to keep your argument going.

[Regina]

Dear NoXion

seeing that your location is an arsehole i am in no way surprised that you are smelling like one right now.

I also took the liberty in checking out your public profile and again was not at all shocked that your interest is stabbing children in the face!!!

If personal attacks are your style then you should not live in any form of organized and civil community you should be locked up somewhere with the other Charlie Mansons of the world.

You should seriously be ashamed of yourself not because you picked on somebody who is at least five years younger than you are but because your supposed counter argument made absolutely no sense, what so ever and I suspect that it is you who is an utter failure of a human being.

Is that good enough English for you??!!!

Good Day...

[Colonello Buendia]

I personally believe that a persons beliefs are their business, however when they preach to me about how to save myself and how gays are satan it becomes my business I want to hurt them. I think people shouldn't be told tha for disobeying your folks you'll go to hell especially when they're 3 for christs sake! kids should be allowed to make a free decision when they're mature, then if they want to join a church I won't stop them...unless they try to convert me

[Jazzratt]

I originally wasn't going to bother responding to these attacks on NoXion - he is after all old enough and ugly enough to get you wankers to shut the fuck up - but laying into him like this is fucking ridiculous, especially since the person he was responding to was saying some utterly stupid crap about religion - the normal "religious tolerance" bollocks that I can't stand.

And now we have this wanker, Regina, saying this:


Dear NoXion

seeing that your location is an arsehole i am in no way surprised that you are smelling like one right now.

I also took the liberty in checking out your public profile and again was not at all shocked that your interest is stabbing children in the face!!!

Here we see some rudimentary attempts at humour. However the poster in question, when creating these crude "lampoons" (although giving them such a grand appellation rubs seems indecent to me), forgot that one vital ingredient of a funny comment - humour.


If personal attacks are your style then you should not live in any form of organized and civil community you should be locked up somewhere with the other Charlie Mansons of the world.

And here we see some really insane societal views coming to the fore, it appears that this person believes that being rude to some one is on par with what Charlie Manson (which is nuts in itself) and that people who are rude should be locked up. I can't decide if this authoritarian crap is more disturbing or enraging - either way it's really fucking stupid.


You should seriously be ashamed of yourself not because you picked on somebody who is at least five years younger than you are but because your supposed counter argument made absolutely no sense, what so ever and I suspect that it is you who is an utter failure of a human being.

1) (This point also goes to the people that pointed out this member wasn't a native english speaker) NoXion had no way of telling the age, ethnicity, native language or whatever else of this member (because like most of us he doesn't check people's profiles before posting), and it shouldn't really matter anyway. If someone is smart enough to form political opinions they are mature enough to deal with someone saying nasty things on the internet.

2) Did you actually read the counter argument that NoXion put forward or are you just blindly saying stupid shit for the hell of it? The argument made a lot of sense:

P1) Children are not capable of considering information given to them by adults in a critical manner.

P2) If told that there is a magical being that watches them constantly and, if they do something bad, will throw them into a lake of fire/pit of burning excrement/Slough for all of eternity the kid is going to be scared shitless and, because of P1, believe that this is literally true.

P3) Scaring children is morally reprehensible.

C) Teaching children about religion is morally reprehensible.


Is that good enough English for you??!!!

No. Multiple question and exclamation marks are never good english.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

She's Egyptian. Take it easy on her??

If English isn't her first language, then my insults don't apply. In any case, she should improve her English grammar if she wants to be more easily understood on an English language forum.


I'm not taking a side in the argument, but everyone can tell that you've run out of points or been stumped when you resort to simple insults to keep your argument going.

I'd be able to actually address their points if they wrote clearly. In the absence of coherent points to address, I tell people to either make their point clear or stop spamming the forum with their verbal diarrhea.

This would have been obvious to you, had you not been a style-over-substance scrotebag.


Dear NoXion

And hello to you too, you condescending fuck.


seeing that your location is an arsehole i am in no way surprised that you are smelling like one right now.Better to smell of shit than to be full of shit like you.


I also took the liberty in checking out your public profile and again was not at all shocked that your interest is stabbing children in the face!!! You are obviously unfamiliar with the concept of black comedy. This is not surprising, considering you need at least a few brain cells to rub together in order to appreciate it.


If personal attacks are your style then you should not live in any form of organized and civil community you should be locked up somewhere with the other Charlie Mansons of the world.Flaming people on the internet makes me as bad as a serial killer? Truly you live a sheltered life. Aren't you one of those people who lives in their parents' basement?


You should seriously be ashamed of yourself not because you picked on somebody who is at least five years younger than you are but because your supposed counter argument made absolutely no sense, what so ever and I suspect that it is you who is an utter failure of a human being.If my counter-argument made no sense, then illustrate the flaws in it. Since you have failed to do so, I can only assume you are posturing in order to make yourself look good against the "mean internet person".


Is that good enough English for you??!!!The English was good, now work on the stupidity.


Good Day...Get hit by a truck.

[Bud Struggle]

Wrong. Brain washing is brain washing. Especially when you consider there are hundreds of millions of kids just like this being brainwashed into religion.

Just like the Chinese Communist kids, or those those little Soviet kids (thank God that regime has ended), or those little Cuban kids, or those little North Korean kids, etc. that are brainwashed in the same way for different ideologies.

Excess is excess.

[Sankofa]

Just like the Chinese Communist kids, or those those little Soviet kids (thank God that regime has ended), or those little Cuban kids, or those little North Korean kids, etc. that are brainwashed in the same way for different ideologies.

Excess is excess.

lawl. Now every person that was under a socialist regime was brainwashed?

[Dr Mindbender]

Just like the Chinese Communist kids, or those those little Soviet kids (thank God that regime has ended), or those little Cuban kids, or those little North Korean kids, etc. that are brainwashed in the same way for different ideologies.

Excess is excess.
didnt you bother looking at the pie chart that marsella posted?

[Bud Struggle]

lawl. Now every person that was under a socialist regime was brainwashed?

As if every Christian kind is brainwashed. All much the same, you know. We want our kids to be like us. And if we are fruitcakes we make our kids fruitcakes. But, if we have well reasoned political or religious beliefs--what can we do but teach them in the ways that worked for us? We love our children and want them to be happy. We learned our happiness the hard way, we all try to make it easier for those we love. we always try and we almost always fail.

We are only human.

[Dr Mindbender]

As if every Christian kind is brainwashed.
.
As if every communist kind is brainwashed.

[Black Cross]

No. Multiple question and exclamation marks are never good english.

Can we stop this. This is petty. If you don't understand something someone says, just ask them to clarify. Don't attack their credibility, like....


but laying into him like this is fucking ridiculous, especially since the person he was responding to was saying some utterly stupid crap about religion - the normal "religious tolerance" bollocks that I can't stand.


And now we have this wanker, Regina...

Jazzratt- as a moderator, shouldn't you set an straight example for people in this forum as far as being civil goes? There is absolutely no practicle value to condescension and plain disrespect.

And I'm, at most, standing up for darkenedday92 in this case.

[Bud Struggle]

As if every communist kind is brainwashed.

The Marsella pie chart doesn't wash. Good people do the best to raise their child to be the best and have the best. That's just human nature. And no, not every Communist kid is brainwashed. Kids raised correctly lean from their parents what worked for THEM and then are left to make their own decisions.

I am doing that with my own 11 and 14 year olds. I teach them what I believe and why I believe it, and then leave them alone to make their own decisions. And I will accept and respect the decisions they make in their lives. No matter what they believe to be correct.

[Red_or_Dead]

Rude or not, Noxion is right, religion should not be forced down on kids who cant even tye their shoes yet.

I am in favour of letting people believe what they want to, no matter how stupid it may be, but the parents of the kids in the video went beyond that. Not just indoctrinating children with religious crap, they actualy use them as a tool to preach their beliefs. To me it looks like some warped, perversed way of advertising.

As I said, I dont mind people believing in god(s), but it does remind me of something, when people talk about "Christian upringing" and stuff like that. Pretty much all of the religious people that I know come from religious families, where religion was forced down their throats from the moment they crawled out of their mothers womb. Sure, I heard of people that converted to Christianity, or any other religion, for whatever reasons they had. But Im sure that the high number of religious people today are religious because of their upringing, society, or whatever, and only a handfull are religious because they came to a conclusion by themselves that there must be a god.

Religion= an inherent disease

[Bud Struggle]

Rude or not, Noxion is right, religion should not be forced down on kids who cant even tye their shoes yet.

I am in favour of letting people believe what they want to, no matter how stupid it may be, but the parents of the kids in the video went beyond that. Not just indoctrinating children with religious crap, they actualy use them as a tool to preach their beliefs. To me it looks like some warped, perversed way of advertising.

As I said, I dont mind people believing in god(s), but it does remind me of something, when people talk about "Christian upringing" and stuff like that. Pretty much all of the religious people that I know come from religious families, where religion was forced down their throats from the moment they crawled out of their mothers womb. Sure, I heard of people that converted to Christianity, or any other religion, for whatever reasons they had. But Im sure that the high number of religious people today are religious because of their upringing, society, or whatever, and only a handfull are religious because they came to a conclusion by themselves that there must be a god.

Religion= an inherent disease

From William Barrett:

In "The Illusion of Technique" he summarized a lifetime of philosophical thinking in one sentence: "Amid all the definitions proposed for man the most truthful would in fact be that he is the religious animal."

[Maybe-not]

I never looked at it this way, and I agree with your statement.

Also, I agree that legal measures should be taken against such institusions, or in this case, parents.

Highly. One of this societies major problems, is selective discrimination. I will be posting an article on the topic of selective discrimination (a theory of mine) later today.


Right.
Child molesters can be closely determined as rapists,although there are certain differencies in the motive and manner.
Pedophiles are sexually atracted,or even in love.
If they control themselves and do nothing about it as a result of logical conclusion that their behaviour will hurt someone,that is ok.
If they do,they are child molesters.

Exactly. Love in itself is always beautiful. And when all statistics tell us most Child Molesters != Pedophiles, I'm generally very pissed at people who assume that Child Molesters = Pedophiles. Especially those who claim to be progressive, that just makes it hypocrite as well.


Adults believe this nonsense too.


I think it should serve as proof that Children are no less gullible than adults. Just look at Tom Cruise, we allow him rights, don't we?

[Jazzratt]

Can we stop this. This is petty. If you don't understand something someone says, just ask them to clarify. Don't attack their credibility, like....

I was being facetious. Although it's also a technically correct answer to the question posed.


Jazzratt- as a moderator, shouldn't you set an straight example for people in this forum as far as being civil goes?

As a Moderator I should move off topic posts, trash trollish ones and keep the forum moving, being nice to people is an optional extra.


There is absolutely no practicle value to condescension and plain disrespect.

Disrespect is fine if the person in question deserves no respect.


And I'm, at most, standing up for darkenedday92 in this case.


darkenedday92 is wrong though, whether or not they had been told this politely. There is no need for this constant stream of style over substance horseshit.

[Module]

Nobody's ever going to listen to what you have to say if it's dotted between various "You're such a fucking moron" 's or the like.
How about, Jazzratt, as somebody who presumably advocates certain ideas instead of holding them contemptuously and silently despising all those who disagree with you, you try your best to make people see it your way, by reasoning with them, politely.

I think that my main problem with kids being indoctrinated into religion is that it's when you're young that you should be encouraged to use reason and rationality to sort out your own opinions and beliefs - something that religiousness is fundamentally opposed to. I do think that discouraging that counts definitely as child abuse.

[darkened day 92]

First of all, sorry about my english. First i would like to say that i did not intend to provok anyone. If i wanted to provok anyone i would have went to a republican foroum or something. My ideas were that it's a good thing to teach your child to follow a religion not to scare him with it. Religion is a very intellectual matter which needs a long time to understand. Some students take years to study the dimensions of religion. So you can't just get a kid to preach things he probebly does not understand the dimensions of. When you get a kid saying so and so is to do this or will go to hell the kid propbebly does not understand what hell is. Now that does not mean to illimunate religion from a child's life. that was simply my opinion. the other thing i said that fired up a storm is that religion should be tolerated. I believe it's a personal choice that should not be forced on anyone.
Now i didn't mean to start any anger but i guess everyone got carried away with the insults. We should really be discussing this not in a way that anyone's belif or opinion is superior but that they just are different.

[Marsella]

First of all, sorry about my english.

You don't need to apologise about your English. You speak better English than I speak Arabic. ;)


My ideas were that it's a good thing to teach your child to follow a religion not to scare him with it.

Why is that?

What are the sort of things that Christianity advocates?

That the role of women is one of service to men.

That homosexuals are sinners.

That all should submit to God.

Are these the sort of things that we should be putting forward?

A belief which excludes half of the population as every being free has no place in any communist organisation. A belief which only maintains equality for heterosexual people has no place either.

If anything, we are intolerant of religion because religion is intolerant of equality for the majority on earth.

Religion is fundamentally reactionary because it holds that we can only really be free in the afterlife. If life sucks now, deal with it!

Religion inherently is a scare campaign. If you are good = heaven. If you are bad = hell. That is how it is enforced.


Religion is a very intellectual matter which needs a long time to understand.

Well apparently it is not as this program demonstrates. The white American child held the same religious beliefs as his father. His father commenting at one stage 'God's used animals, I mean he used a donkey. A donkey spoke and saved a man's life.' What intelligence is there in that?

Religion fundamentally denies logic or science. Its basis is faith, whilst we need proof.


When you get a kid saying so and so is to do this or will go to hell the kid propbebly does not understand what hell is.

This young boy clearly understood it; an eternity of suffering.


religion should be tolerated. I believe it's a personal choice that should not be forced on anyone.

Obviously we disagree.

No one sits down and comes to the conclusion that God exists. Usually that turns them to atheism!

Religion is forced on people, as a matter of where you were born, what culture, and in this case, the devotion of your parents.


The Marsella pie chart doesn't wash.

Why not? You stated that 'communist' states brainwashed entire nations. We can see from the chart that religion has brainwashed the entire planet.

Oh and you still didn't answer me before: If you are a Christian, then you would believe what the father says at 4:50: 'God's used animals, I mean he used a donkey. A donkey spoke and saved a man's life.'

[darkened day 92]

The problem here is that your mixing up religion with christianity there many other religions. Our idea here is not to discuss it. There are thousands of religions out there that preach equality it would not be accurate if you genrlise on the basis of one religion. Now i don't know much about christianity so i can't argue. But honestly the idea of god is not even similar in most religions. Not that we are going to start a debate or anything but in Islam we believe that god can not be married is not borned and can't have mortal or immortal childern while in christianity it is believed that god's son is mary's child that leaves a lot of room for interpetation and contradiction in my view. But if someone believes that Jesus is the son of God so let him think if he wants to say that to his kid, the kid will learn that but when he grows up he can convert or turn atheist if he wants to. You can not ban people from believing because belif is in the heart before its in the prayers and you can never change something in someone's heart.

[Sankofa]

The Marsella pie chart doesn't wash. Good people do the best to raise their child to be the best and have the best. That's just human nature. And no, not every Communist kid is brainwashed. Kids raised correctly lean from their parents what worked for THEM and then are left to make their own decisions.

I am doing that with my own 11 and 14 year olds. I teach them what I believe and why I believe it, and then leave them alone to make their own decisions. And I will accept and respect the decisions they make in their lives. No matter what they believe to be correct.

The problem is, the overwhelming number of religious people don't make this type of stance with their own children. I've seen people in church with babies that were just weeks old.

They get scared by tales of spending forever in a hell where they will burn and suffer forever before most of they can even read.

From my own personal experience, if you show that you don't believe any of this bullshit they've been trying to shove down your throat since birth, you get beaten until you say you believe it. That in itself, is the worst part of religion.

I'd admirable how you approach the own concept with your own children, but it just doesn't happen that way with in the majority of cases in religious households.

[Marsella]

The problem here is that your mixing up religion with christianity there many other religions. Our idea here is not to discuss it.

No. All religions believe in some sort of spiritual beings.


But honestly the idea of god is not even similar in most religions.

In the Christianity, Judaism, Islam by and large yes. But as stated, all religions believe in spirituality and mainly some sort of after life.


But if someone believes that Jesus is the son of God so let him think if he wants to say that to his kid, the kid will learn that but when he grows up he can convert or turn atheist if he wants to.

Sure. But old habits die slowly.

If someone is steeped in religious beliefs it is unlikely that they will rebuke those beliefs, even if the absurdity of their religion is staring them in the eyes.

That is what is so absurd about religion; they cannot prove it, so it cannot be disproved to them. How can you disprove something when they rest solely on faith?


You can not ban people from believing because belif is in the heart before its in the prayers and you can never change something in someone's heart.

I'm not sure what you are saying here.

But yes religions have been suppressed and died out before. However, the greatest method in defeating religion would be a change to why people pray.

[Bud Struggle]

You stated that 'communist' states brainwashed entire nations. We can see from the chart that religion has brainwashed the entire planet. I believe that some people brainwash some kids, no matter what the belief system. Some kids are brainwashed in China with Communism and some are brainwashed in America with religion. The real problem isn't religion or political theory. The real problem is bad parenting.


Oh and you still didn't answer me before: If you are a Christian, then you would believe what the father says at 4:50: 'God's used animals, I mean he used a donkey. A donkey spoke and saved a man's life.'

Sorry if I missed your question previously. I don't know the exact quote, but as a Catholic I don't take most of nitty gritty details of the Bible literally, so I probably don't actually believe a donkey spoke in this circumstance. I believe the Bible is true in respect to leading man to God and to leading a good and fufilling life, I believe the Bible uses allegory and fable to bring depth and clarity to human situation. Much in the way that Aesop's fables teach a lesson but really never really happened. On the other hand I believe literally that Jesus was the son of God and died on the cross to save me.

[Atrus]

I'd be able to actually address their points if they wrote clearly. In the absence of coherent points to address, I tell people to either make their point clear or stop spamming the forum with their verbal diarrhea.

This would have been obvious to you, had you not been a style-over-substance scrotebag.





Funnily enough it is clear to me, and actually I agree, I'm a firm believer in proper English spelling and grammar, but I was merely observing that you resorted to insults with no attempt at an intellectual response, and it makes your argument appear weak. As much as I'd love to get into a flame war with you I'd be lying if I said that the poor spelling and grammar doesn't annoy me too, I just understand that English isn't everybodies first language, and as I struggle so much spelling in French I don't complain when they don't spell correctly in English. However, if people who's first language is English can't use it properly, then they deserve to be flamed and nothing more.

[Marsella]

Some kids are brainwashed in China with Communism and some are brainwashed in America with religion.

Well I'm not sure what you definition of Communism you are referring to. I'll assume the definition most commonly used - that of 'totalitarianism'

Are Chinese children taught adherence to the state in school? Probably. Are Chinese children taught adherence to the state by their parents? Probably. That's no different in regards to America.

As for Marxist theory, that is not taught in Chinese schools, as much as distorted. You forget who runs China these days.


The real problem isn't religion or political theory. The real problem is bad parenting.

Not really. It is bad parenting to teach your child a falsehood.

It is good parenting to teach your child to think critically.

Religion and Marxism are blatantly different in this regard.

So I have no problem with a child been taught Marxist theory, mathematics, English, whatever. Marxism is not a belief system or morality as such.


Sorry if I missed your question previously. I don't know the exact quote, but as a Catholic I don't take most of nitty gritty details of the Bible literally, so I probably don't actually believe a donkey spoke in this circumstance. I believe the Bible is true in respect to leading man to God and to leading a good and fufilling life, I believe the Bible uses allegory and fable to bring depth and clarity to human situation. Much in the way that Aesop's fables teach a lesson but really never really happened. On the other hand I believe literally that Jesus was the son of God and died on the cross to save me.

So in other words, you find it questionable as to whether a donkey spoke and saved a man's life, yet when Jesus pulls a zombie 101, you literally believe it? :|

[Marsella]

Funnily enough it is clear to me, and actually I agree, I'm a firm believer in proper English spelling and grammar, but I was merely observing that you resorted to insults with no attempt at an intellectual response, and it makes your argument appear weak. As much as I'd love to get into a flame war with you I'd be lying if I said that the poor spelling and grammar doesn't annoy me too, I just understand that English is'nt everybodies first language, and as I struggle so much spelling in French I don't complain when they don't spell correctly in English. However, if people who's first language is English can't use it properly, then they deserve to be flamed and nothing more.

We all don't have the luxury of first rate educations. English is not my first language but I still aim to be coherent. I think the main thing which annoys me is block paragraphs. Divide your sentences up. And using a spell checker helps, which you can download for free if you have Firefox.

[Regina]

NoXion and Jazzratt,
You know what I will not stoop down to your pathetically low level because my parents raised me to be a civil human being and anyway your comments shouldn’t have even been signified with a response!

[Bud Struggle]

Not really. It is bad parenting to teach your child a falsehood.

It is good parenting to teach your child to think critically.

Religion and Marxism are blatantly different in this regard.

So I have no problem with a child been taught Marxist theory, mathematics, English, whatever. Marxism is not a belief system or morality as such.

But you and I have differ on what is "real" and what is "belief." I see Marxism as much of a chimera as you see Christianity. I see Communism as something been tried, but always fails and ends us in monsterous totalitarianisms.

As much as you see Jesus as a joke, I see the abolition of money and people all woking together for the common good as a bit of pie in the sky.

I'm not making fun of your beliefs--I'm just saying that lots of things are up to our individual interpretation. Math may not be--but Communist economic theory is.

Actually, since it has really never been honestly put into practice in a modern state--to believe in Communism, something that has never been tried successfully, takes as much faith as any religion.

We "know" about as much about how a "real" Marxist state as we "know" about a Christian heaven. There's a lot of speculation about both, but no solid information. :hammersickle:

[Atrus]

We all don't have the luxury of first rate educations. English is not my first language but I still aim to be coherent. I think the main thing which annoys me is block paragraphs. Divide your sentences up. And using a spell checker helps, which you can download for free if you have Firefox.

I personally have no problem with that then.

I will make an effort to divide up my paragrpahs more in future.

And back on topic, seeing kids, brainwashed or not, with that narrowminded superiority complex makes me so angry, at both them and the parents. Mainly the parents.

[Red_or_Dead]

Actually, since it has really never been honestly put into practice in a modern state--to believe in Communism, something that has never been tried successfully, takes as much faith as any religion.



It requiers effort. Not faith. Communism isnt a paradise in which we would be admited by some higher power.

[Bud Struggle]

It requiers effort. Not faith. Communism isnt a paradise in which we would be admited by some higher power.

Here we can agree. I ask you to believe in an unseen force that manages all things (God) and you ask me to believe in an unseen force that manages all things (Communism). Neither of us has any proof--but we have faith and we both know our God's by name.

[Sankofa]

Communism is no where near a religion; trying to equate the two is foolish.

You have to die to see your paradise, while our goals can be attained right here, I don't have to believe in some mystical force in the sky.

[Red_or_Dead]

Here we can agree. I ask you to believe in an unseen force that manages all things (God) and you ask me to believe in an unseen force that manages all things (Communism). Neither of us has any proof--but we have faith and we both know our God's by name.


Actualy we cant. What I meant is that while the paradise is something that we will be (allegedly) admited into by an outer force (not ourselves), while communism (which by the way is not a "force") requiers effort from us to achieve, and its completely up to us (humans) wheter communism will exist or not in the future. Its not a question of faith, its what we do to get there. Wheter or not we have faith that it will exist in the future is actualy quite irrelevant.

[Dyslexia! Well I Never!]

On a base level the problem with religion is that it compels belief which in the context of inspiring unshakable faith in a work of unproveable fiction is delusional unreality, this very delusion has caused civil and international wars, genocide, rape, murder, terrorism and untold suffering all of which it contradicts itself on in it's alternate advocations and condemnations based on the whim of an imaginary being of infallible judgement.

Whereas science, reason and freedom of thought allows one to learn for themselves and consider things and draw conclusions when after a process of questioning and independant thought the person is ready to face criticism of their handling of their knowledge to form a coherent and sensible opinion. Contant evolution of ideas and theories leading exonerably to truth.

[Bud Struggle]

On a base level the problem with religion is that it compels belief which in the context of inspiring unshakable faith in a work of unproveable fiction is delusional unreality, this very delusion has caused civil and international wars, genocide, rape, murder, terrorism and untold suffering all of which it contradicts itself on in it's alternate advocations and condemnations based on the whim of an imaginary being of infallible judgement.

Whereas science, reason and freedom of thought allows one to learn for themselves and consider things and draw conclusions when after a process of questioning and independant thought the person is ready to face criticism of their handling of their knowledge to form a coherent and sensible opinion. Contant evolution of ideas and theories leading exonerably to truth.

True, I have no argument with those points. But my point is that Marxism is also a belief. It is not something like Math where we can all agree that 2+2=4. Many people disargee that Marxism is a workable system. Every time in history that Marxism has been tried on any major scale it has proved to be a spectacular failure, replete with Gulags and forced labor and purges and secret police and power mad dictators.

To think that a 150 year old economic system that has never worked in the past will be the cure to economic and social ills of man that have plagued him for tens of thousands of years--requires BELIEF.

[Dyslexia! Well I Never!]

Yes Marxism is a belief.

It is a belief that people choose on the strength of a scientific theory (a political socio-economic one to be exact.) It doesn't matter how old the theory is it may occur to us collision theory, one of the basic concepts that forms the basis of modern chemistry is but a theory as is evolution and relativity.

My point is that we either believe in thses or we don't but we can still rely upon them to produce measurable results.

Marxism doesn't actually require belief at all. It is in fact based on one man's observation of the rise of capitalism and prediction of how the system would eventually develop. So of course it hasn't worked in the past, it hasn't happened yet.

Marxism has never been tried. One cannot force Marxism into being in a revolutionary sweep of violence (be it political or physical.)

Marxism is the point at which the thousands of relatively small reforms in the system insigated over the decades by those who would create a fairer society (revolutionaries) eventually realise they have by virtue of these small reforms reached a stable and fair society (a marxist state.) One needn't even be a marxist to being about this state.

[careyprice31]

I asked the president of the Newfoundland and Labrador Right to LIfe Association, extremely conservative Catholic Patrick Hanlon, why he became a Catholic. His response? "I was born into it."

I agree, most of these religious nut bars who brainwash children and such are trained into it from the time they lumber out of the uterus.

I myself was forced to be confirmed, I didnt wanna do it but my mother made me go and do it, I was only 11

and as for being baptized, well I didnt have a choice in that, and babies dont get to have a say whether they get baptized or not. I was baptized in an anglican church when just a baby and i never had no say in whether i wanted it or not.

[Red_or_Dead]

and as for being baptized, well I didnt have a choice in that, and babies dont get to have a say whether they get baptized or not. I was baptized in an anglican church when just a baby and i never had no say in whether i wanted it or not.

If there is one thing that Im thankfull to my parents for, its because they never forced any religious shit upon me. Im not even baptized, and thats pretty rare over here.

Anyway, I think that baptizing and confirming minors should be illegal.