Full scale communism in United States: a question

[Digitalism]

The #1 consumer, capitalist bastard of a country in the world. We all talk about revolutions in the future and how eventually people will get sick of it and strike. But do you think, honestly, that such a country like U.S. would ever even THINK about full scale communism anytime in the future. The history of capitalism in this country is from Day 1. And the media brainwashes people so much about the ideas of Marx that it's even scary to bring up "communism" around people in america - except the enlightened ones. I personally feel if communism ever was to be achieved worldwide..United States would be the only capitalist nation left. I just can't even begin to imagine a "communist america" it's almost a ridiculous dream :lol:

just my thoughts.

[Dimentio]

The #1 consumer, capitalist bastard of a country in the world. We all talk about revolutions in the future and how eventually people will get sick of it and strike. But do you think, honestly, that such a country like U.S. would ever even THINK about full scale communism anytime in the future. The history of capitalism in this country is from Day 1. And the media brainwashes people so much about the ideas of Marx that it's even scary to bring up "communism" around people in america - except the enlightened ones. I personally feel if communism ever was to be achieved worldwide..United States would be the only capitalist nation left. I just can't even begin to imagine a "communist america" it's almost a ridiculous dream :lol:

just my thoughts.

Call it something else than communism, for a start.

Also, try to convince the local proletariat that demands for a worker-controlled economy is just natural.

[bayano]

firstly, recall that empires in past phases existed for very long periods (sometimes thousands of years) before their collapse, often in the face of some class war or revolution that brought them to a different mode of production. the history of the US is very short in the grand scheme of things.

further, the US hasnt always been completely capitalist- vestiges or mutations of slavery and feudalism (and other economic systems) existed within at various points.

[Luís Henrique]

The #1 consumer, capitalist bastard of a country in the world. We all talk about revolutions in the future and how eventually people will get sick of it and strike. But do you think, honestly, that such a country like U.S. would ever even THINK about full scale communism anytime in the future. The history of capitalism in this country is from Day 1. And the media brainwashes people so much about the ideas of Marx that it's even scary to bring up "communism" around people in america - except the enlightened ones. I personally feel if communism ever was to be achieved worldwide..United States would be the only capitalist nation left. I just can't even begin to imagine a "communist america" it's almost a ridiculous dream :lol:

just my thoughts.

Found among the papers of a disheartened French revolutionary in the mid-XVIII Century:


The #1 loyalist, feudal bastard of a country in the world. We all talk about revolutions in the future and how eventually people will get sick of it and strike. But do you think, honestly, that such a country like France would ever even THINK about full scale capitalism anytime in the future? The history of feudalism in this country is immemorial. And the church brainwashes people so much about the ideas of Rousseau that it's even scary to bring up "democracy" around people in France - except the enlightened ones. I personally feel if capitalism ever was to be achieved worldwide... France would be the only feudal nation left. I just can't even begin to imagine a "capitalist France"... it's almost a ridiculous dream

just my thoughts.

Human history is measured in centuries, not in weeks.

Luís Henrique

[Digitalism]

haha, that 'rework' made me grin when i read that.

good point, i don't know the history of France in such depth, but very good point. And if I understood this correctly, no I'm not saying it would happens in a short amount of time, I said in the future. Not even in our lifetime.

[Dros]

Found among the papers of a disheartened French revolutionary in the mid-XVIII Century:



Human history is measured in centuries, not in weeks.

Luís Henrique

my thoughts exactly

[Digitalism]

soo...you all think it will happen, right?

[RNK]

It may happen in some form or another. It's too early to tell what civilization may be in 200 or 300 years. Hell, predicting what the world will look like in 20 years is next to impossible.

Excellent quote Luis, mind if I steal it? Too late!

[Digitalism]

, so now my reworked words have become part of the revolutionary quotes.

[BIG BROTHER]

acording to Mao's way o thinking, in order to make the US communist or socialist, first all or a majority of third world countries have to have a revolution first in order in order to isolate the US.

[victim77]

The #1 consumer, capitalist bastard of a country in the world. We all talk about revolutions in the future and how eventually people will get sick of it and strike. But do you think, honestly, that such a country like U.S. would ever even THINK about full scale communism anytime in the future. The history of capitalism in this country is from Day 1. And the media brainwashes people so much about the ideas of Marx that it's even scary to bring up "communism" around people in america - except the enlightened ones. I personally feel if communism ever was to be achieved worldwide..United States would be the only capitalist nation left. I just can't even begin to imagine a "communist america" it's almost a ridiculous dream :lol:

just my thoughts.

My history teacher says that the US will soon fall much like the Roman empire.

[Tower of Bebel]

My history teacher says that the US will soon fall much like the Roman empire.


The fall of the Roman Empire coincided with the fall of slave society? Let's hope the fall of the USA coincides with the end of capitalism ;).

[Dimentio]

I think the USA will collapse in its present form due to automatisation and peak oil, but that we risks to see a restructured American Empire arise from the ruins.

Let me explain. When the service sector is automatised, the productive factors will increase while the consumption capacity will decrease due to unemployment. The capitalists are not stupid, so they will try to create a bloated welfare state, possibly under the name of a "green" ideology, creating a full "bread'n'circus"-society built on welfare, reduced labor hours and more weekends... and more imperialist wars.

A society built on automatisation phased in during capitalist conditions will start to resemble ancient Rome during the imperial era, when 33% of the city lived on imperial welfare.

[EricTheRed]

One thing that American leftists must come to grips with is that the US is particularly unique in that the public is genuinely conservative or moderate. It's not a to-scale relative term, like being on the left in France or Germany or some other social democratic European nation. We have not had, at least, a semi-progressive in office since FDR.

So, when I hear "communist America", I have to struggle to even begin to think how that would come about. America, as we know it, has to be wiped clean. It cannot be built as a socialist society upon a deeply fractured foundation that is wrought with racism, sexism and the deeply entrenched class system. People will cling to these concepts, and I'm really not sure how to get the American public to let go of them.

I'll put it another way. America is so deeply prideful, proud and nationalistic that if something absolutely humiliating were to happen to us, like a full scale invasion, and our economy was crushed - the Americans would not band together in a socialist or republican resistance. They would most likely form a fascistic resistance. Guaranteed, given the majority make-up of this country, if the resistance fought off an invasion, there would be a civil war between revolutionaries and reactionaries, probably with the reactionaries winning.

I have near-zero faith that, unless there is some dramatic social shift, this would not happen to America if there was a very bad economic and political period of extreme humiliation for us. In fact, there would probably be even greater resentment to leftism because many American see the Chinese as responsible, at least in some way, for any economic downturn that may happen. Obviously, and erroneously, Americans will make the connection to the Reds.

There are so many factors that point away from a revolutionary movement in the face of disaster, and more that point towards a reactionary-nationalist, possibly even fascist, movement.

[The Feral Underclass]

Talking about the western world turning into a communist society is like trying to explain the concept of light bulbs to someone in the middle ages. You'd likely be burned as a witch.

[Dros]

acording to Mao's way o thinking, in order to make the US communist or socialist, first all or a majority of third world countries have to have a revolution first in order in order to isolate the US.

That's not Mao's way of thinking. That's MIM's way of thinking.

[erupt]

My history teacher says that the US will soon fall much like the Roman empire.
Let us not hope, comrades, that a fascist state rises up from the ashes of this dethroned empire. Remember after World War I (and this a less drastic example) that both Italy and Germany had many radicals in it (both Communists and Fascists, alike.)

Whatever way the country is swayed is up to the solidarity of the people.

[Awful Reality]

Revolution is, and always will be, inevitable.

The wars and corruption have nearly destroyed the people's hope in our government. We have turned from the benevolent protective force the people once believed we were to the stolid, oppressive fatcats in the eyes of the citizens and the world. In 2006 we believed that change could be established with the overtake of congress, and there has been none. 2008 is the last stand for the American people, and the letdown they will soon face will be one of epic magnitude.

Most economists believe that current recession will soon become a full depression. The housing crisis, coupled with unemployment and the oil crisis, will turn the proletariat into the dominant, yet oppressed force in America as it did in the 1930's, which led us to the brink of revolution. But there is one more factor we cannot ignore, and that is the omnipresent one of war.

Political situations worldwide have determined the United States, once again, against its recent historical nemesis, Russia. In Iran, Kosovo, the Czech Republic, Poland, and others, we are at a standstill both in alliance and in arms. War will come, and the havoc it will wreak on America will be innumerably large. The consumer economy, so reliant on China, will disintegrate as the Sino-Russian "Good Neighborliness" Pact comes into effect, and with the consumerist economy gone, there will be nothing left to sustain the masses.

As mentioned above, the United States stood on the precipice of revolution in the 1930's. But then, the government represented a benevolent hope- no more. Drafts and Deaths did not tear the people- it will now. The 2000's represent an almost doomsday-like scenario for the struggling American government, as we lose our diplomatic, military,a nd economic ground quickly.

[BIG BROTHER]

Quote:
Originally Posted by josefrancisco http://img.revleft.com/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1095150#post1095150)
acording to Mao's way o thinking, in order to make the US communist or socialist, first all or a majority of third world countries have to have a revolution first in order in order to isolate the US.

That's not Mao's way of thinking. That's MIM's way of thinking.

Really? I was sure it was. Oh well damm my ignorance!

By the way I agree with fourth in the exetent that if the US's recesion transforms into a depression then a Revolution could be closer than we expect.

[victim77]

One thing that American leftists must come to grips with is that the US is particularly unique in that the public is genuinely conservative or moderate. It's not a to-scale relative term, like being on the left in France or Germany or some other social democratic European nation. We have not had, at least, a semi-progressive in office since FDR.

So, when I hear "communist America", I have to struggle to even begin to think how that would come about. America, as we know it, has to be wiped clean. It cannot be built as a socialist society upon a deeply fractured foundation that is wrought with racism, sexism and the deeply entrenched class system. People will cling to these concepts, and I'm really not sure how to get the American public to let go of them.

I'll put it another way. America is so deeply prideful, proud and nationalistic that if something absolutely humiliating were to happen to us, like a full scale invasion, and our economy was crushed - the Americans would not band together in a socialist or republican resistance. They would most likely form a fascistic resistance. Guaranteed, given the majority make-up of this country, if the resistance fought off an invasion, there would be a civil war between revolutionaries and reactionaries, probably with the reactionaries winning.

I have near-zero faith that, unless there is some dramatic social shift, this would not happen to America if there was a very bad economic and political period of extreme humiliation for us. In fact, there would probably be even greater resentment to leftism because many American see the Chinese as responsible, at least in some way, for any economic downturn that may happen. Obviously, and erroneously, Americans will make the connection to the Reds.

There are so many factors that point away from a revolutionary movement in the face of disaster, and more that point towards a reactionary-nationalist, possibly even fascist, movement.

Very well put.

[Apollodorus]

'I never think of the future. It comes soon enough.' -Einstein, apparently.

[lombas]

Beware of the guns.

[BIG BROTHER]

This thread makes a certain quote from my 6 grade history teacher come to mind: "empire goes up, empire goes down"

[JimmyJazz]

One thing that American leftists must come to grips with is that the US is particularly unique in that the public is genuinely conservative or moderate. It's not a to-scale relative term, like being on the left in France or Germany or some other social democratic European nation. We have not had, at least, a semi-progressive in office since FDR.

So, when I hear "communist America", I have to struggle to even begin to think how that would come about. America, as we know it, has to be wiped clean. It cannot be built as a socialist society upon a deeply fractured foundation that is wrought with racism, sexism and the deeply entrenched class system. People will cling to these concepts, and I'm really not sure how to get the American public to let go of them.

I'll put it another way. America is so deeply prideful, proud and nationalistic that if something absolutely humiliating were to happen to us, like a full scale invasion, and our economy was crushed - the Americans would not band together in a socialist or republican resistance. They would most likely form a fascistic resistance. Guaranteed, given the majority make-up of this country, if the resistance fought off an invasion, there would be a civil war between revolutionaries and reactionaries, probably with the reactionaries winning.

I have near-zero faith that, unless there is some dramatic social shift, this would not happen to America if there was a very bad economic and political period of extreme humiliation for us. In fact, there would probably be even greater resentment to leftism because many American see the Chinese as responsible, at least in some way, for any economic downturn that may happen. Obviously, and erroneously, Americans will make the connection to the Reds.

There are so many factors that point away from a revolutionary movement in the face of disaster, and more that point towards a reactionary-nationalist, possibly even fascist, movement.


Very well put.

True, but this describes a unique situation where material conditions change (America falls from superpower status) and resulting social changes take place very quickly (in the form of a resistance movement to occupation) with no time for the new material conditions to affect people's consciousness.

There are lots of ways that material conditions could change more slowly, such as national economic decline.

The current right-wing/nationalistic culture of the U.S. is so strong, though, that for now I pretty much look to the exploited third world (Latin America, etc.) for change. I can't possibly imagine a socialist revolution taking place at this moment that is not tied up with anti-imperialist motives.

[Charles Xavier]

Socialism is the only solution to the crisis driven economy that capitalism produces.

[Psy]

If you look at the 1960's there was revolutionary potential in the USA but no organization to harness this potential. Lets not forget the working class blues in the 1970's when the USA saw a huge increase in worker militancy but still there was no real revolutionary organization to harness the revolutionary potential.

[AGITprop]

There needs to be an organized expression of worker's discontent. A party that is strongly based in ideology will be required to lead the militant, revolutionary workers to victory.

Building this party on the other hand is a long grueling task, and involves tedious day-to-day work. Many a time a struggle has been lost because of the selling out of leadership or lack thereof.

The German revolution was a perfect example of a party that could have led the working class to victory, but because of many reasons, such as a lack of communication between Rosa Luxemburg and Lenin, the German communist party (KPD) was not based on a Bolshevik model; that of strong educated cadres. Instead it was left to its own childish devices after the death of Luxemburg and Liebknecht.

The end result was fascist counter-revolution. It is important to reiterate the fact that revolution is no game. We must do the work today, be prepared to take a role of leadership tomorrow. If we fail, we can expect the most brutal repression and violence.