Buddhism and Socialism? A look at history*

[ID2002]

I have had some interesting conversations with Buddhist masters in Japan....several years ago when I adopted the Buddhist faith at Shin-Yakushiji Temple. The idea behind Buddhism strongly supports the Socialist ideology, although some Buddhist organisations have adopted a right wing approach when it comes to National defense! (a Characteristic of Soto, and Rizai Zen schools of Japan)
>Tibetian Buddhism is also strongly leaning towards Socialist ideology...So says HH Dalhai Lama himself...and he stated clearly that he only has a problem with "those who take control by force, and oppress people"
It is facinating to read about the rise of Prince Sidhartha (Shakyamuni Buddha), and how he refuted the Caste system in India as supporting inequalities, and promoting suffering! He even left his wealth behind, and stated that he did not need it any longer!!He would rather see his money and wealth given to poor people. He wanted to share his wealth, and balance both sides of life.
As a society (North America in general) we are too attached to material possesions, wealth and all these things which mean nothing.

.....I see Capitalism becoming the new Caste system of the future....DON'T YOU??? (an even bigger reason not to support Capitalism)
Anyone have anything to add to this???

[Guest]

but isn't socialism materialist in its stated aims.

[MJM]

How can reincarnation and karma be anything other than a destructive force, a way to control the workers, a way to tell them to accept their lot in life?
The dalai lama isn't a socialist either, he's a fuedal lord.

I do like some aspects of buddhism, but the bad outwieghs the good IMO.

[pce]

well, if i'm not mistaking, reincarnation and karma as the buddhists think of it isn't the say thing as destiny. it's more like "what goes around, comes around." so if you are selfish and mean in this life, then in the next life it will come back to you. i don't see how it tells people to accept their lot in life. on the contrary it tells them to be good so they will have a good life in the next life.

that's the way i see it, i may be wrong.

i don't get where you get that the dalai lama is a feudal lord...please explain

[MJM]

pce -
If someone lives in a slum and is always sick, their children die of easily curable diseases, their daughter works as a whore, there's no food on the table, etc.
Should they accept this is a result of bad deeds in a past life? Or should they say I deserve better, all men are equal?

I've already gone on about the dalai lama in other threads and shown what he stands for and where he comes from. So I don't want to start up on him again. I'll feel like a scratched record.

http://www.humanrights-china.org/focus/foc...11114101437.htm (http://www.humanrights-china.org/focus/focus20011114101437.htm)

http://www.nickyee.com/ponder/tibet.html



(Edited by MJM at 3:57 pm on April 6, 2002)

[ID2002]

I disagree.....STRONGLY.

Buddhism is very strong in making sure that one lives with what one needs...nothing more. It also teaches hard work, creates good character! Life is stricked at monestaries and highly socialized. No one owns anything, it all belongs to the group. Gradually, one begins to appricate life more, as they seek enlightenment.
JSP "Japanese Socialist Party" headed by large following of strong Buddhist supporters and Masters!

Your information on Lhamanism is also highly incorrect! China has occupied Tibet by force...and thats a problem.
Assimilation were it isn't needed!



(Edited by ID2002 at 4:29 am on April 6, 2002)

[MJM]

I agree with the good parts you have stated, but the karma and reincarnation is not good for the people.
Do you disagree with me on that?

I really don't weant to go into the dalai lama as I said before. But here we go;
Was he a slave owner or not? yes
Was he a fuedal lord?yes
Did he flee instead of defending his people?yes

He is my enemy and the enemy of all the working class.



(Edited by MJM at 5:28 pm on April 6, 2002)

[SBR]

I study Zen Buddhism and I feel that it is mainly about equality. That no one is better then any other. Getting caught up by some meaningless figure as the Dalai Lama, is as saying that Joseph Stalin represents all of socialism Ideals. It is understandable to say that religion is bad for the people, but is also important to allow the people to make their own decisions. I do not remeber Marx or anybody for that matter being the one who has all of the answers for humanity in what is right for humanity or not. That is Buddhism great advantage over other religions it isnt there to tell you what right and wrong it there for you to find that answer. I agree with ID very much and I do feel perhaps Buddhist thought and religion may have an important role to play in this world.

[ID2002]

Thank you SBR! Oh, may I add that in Cuba there are a few Buddhist organisations...and a few of the Military police belong to them too.
Interesting now isn't it! You could say, Buddhism is shapeless like water. It can conform to any political system...it is neutral neither extremely right nor extremely left. That is the beauty of it.

[IzmSchism]

I agree with ID2002

Can an atheistic materialist (scientific) be just as moral as one who believes in heaven/ hell, smasara/nirvana

Just because religions (the church) thought the earth to be flat, does this mean it to be flat?

The Buddha/ Sakymuni taught of rebirth b/c it was the common worldview at the time...Buddhism was influenced by other Indian religions, does this mean this principle is correct? of course not, it is all dogmatic.

The Buddha taught not to follow things blindly, then to blindly accept rebirth as fact, then orthodoxy should not stand in the way of our own understanding.

Rebirth is inherint in the law of Karma, then again the Buddha taught that the implications of Karma were more psychological than metaphysical, Karma is intention. Intentions lead to habitual patterns of behaviour. Both these terms lie in the wealth of exestential experience, now, this reality, no one can prove there is life after death, let alone bad deeds produce a subsequent rebirth.

What is it to live in harmony with man, and your environment, We must have some common values that we can thrive upon. Throw all that religious hocus pocus out the door.

[vox]

ID2002:

I think that perhaps you're confusing Buddhism with Hinduism. The Buddha was against the caste system.

What you talk about is suffering, and Buddha said that he teaches suffering and the end of suffering. Please don't mistake the Dalia Lama as the end all and be all of Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhism is a very odd creature indeed.

It's odd that Buddhism, basically a monastic religion, should be as popular as it is. Despite all the Mahayana ramblings, early Buddhism rejected metaphysics and an early Pali text records Buddha as saying we should not bother with questions that do not lead to edification.

vox

[Anonymous]

What is wrong with catolisism, not argueing against buddhism but, isnt catolisism basically communism, what jesus teached to the ppl. I know the church haven't represented jesus and god in the right way , but they do a lot for ppl.

[Moskitto]

most religions in their uncorrupted form are basically communism.

[redsky]

The Dalai Lama attempted to form a Tibetan Communist party in the 60's. It met with little success probably due to the example of China. It amazes me how such a large section of peolple on the left continue to support the Chinese government. There biggest allies in the west are Rupert Murdoch, Macdonalds, Disney and Ted Heath. They are a brutal oppressive regime who for years were opposed to the Soviet Union and peoples eastern Europe. They have fully embraced capitalism and the vast majority of there captives live in economic slavery.

Communism and Buddhism. No conflict. Put buddhist principles in place in the social/economic sphere and you will have a true communist state in place.

I read about the supposed mutilation of serfs in ancient Tibet following a link posted on the previous page to a pro-china website. I have pictures of modern day public shootings in china, carried out after trials in sports stadiums. The Tibetan people have moved on. Nothing they ever did compares to that The Chinese government carries out atrocites such as this on a daily basis.

(Edited by redsky at 9:52 pm on April 30, 2002)

[Al Fidai]

I have a question for any buddhist. do you think if the buddha was here today,would he even care that some statues of him were destroyed?or do you think he would have approved of thier constrution in the first place? After all doesnt the buddhist saying go"if you see the buddha in the streets,kill him"

[vox]

Al Fidai,

Considering the Buddhist doctrine of non-attachment and the belief that all things are transitory, it's doubtful that Buddha would have cared either way. In the later Mahayana school, there is also much emphasis on the "emptiness" of everything, so they may say that nothing was destroyed at all.

Buddha, in the early scriptures, that is, the Pali texts, warned against questions not tending toward edification. He was not interested in metaphysics.

The saying you have at the end of your post sounds like something from a Zen master. Though it's been a long time, I seem to recall that early Buddhist art did not represent the Buddha at all, believing that it was imossible.

vox

[Al Fidai]

Muchos Gracias sub-comandante vox
it is as i thought,i never did understand the fuss over it all. Fer mas salama
Al Fidai