Canadian guilty of trade with CUBA!

[ID2002]

DISCUSTING display of anti-cuban anti-socialist policies of the USA. A Canadian man will be sentanced for life behind bars because he traded with CUBA within the USA! I feel SICK. How unfair to Canada and Cuba!!!
.....feedback please!!

[poncho]

Prime example of the embargo, Helms Burton and the Miami anti-Castro groups are doing nothing but hurt the people of Cuba. This Canadian sold water purification equipment throw a Canadian subsiduary. To the Americans selling something that will provide clean water is trading with the enemy The Sovereign people of Cuba.

[Blackberry]

How evil. >_< No man deserves that.

[Nickademus]

its not a matter of bullying Canada (although I do agree that Canada is often too easy to agree with the US). unfortunately, under international law, any foreigner within a different state is subject to that states law. if he was in the us when he traded with Cuba, he broke US law and is liable to US punishment.

please don't make me go into the theory behind that

[RedRevolutionary87]

ya, but yet they demand any US citizen to be tried with US laws even if he commits a crime in a another country, it doesnt seem right people, they have no right to do this, this is a clear example of US bullying, yet no1 does anything against such action

revolution now!

[poncho]

He's a Canadian not an American who happens to live in the U.S.A. His companies subsiduary in Canada sold water purification chemicals and equipment. Since most Canadian companies do business in the U.S.A its clearly a signal by the Bush admin not to do business in Cuba or suffer....... 89% of Canada's trade is with the United States so its a pretty big message and a example of the war America is waging with Cuba, punishing its people for choosing there own democracy over being a slave to the imprialist U.S.A.

[RedCeltic]

Yes well, the problem is simply that US Law against trade with Cuba is way too harsh. Shit... my dad goes back to Scotland once a year and makes extra cash by smuggling Cubans....Well hell you would never suspect him, that's partly what makes it perfect...

Oh, well my dad isn't the sort of man you would expect to do such a thing... and in fact has never broken the law (with the exception of smuggling Cuban Cicars to NY) Should they send him to prison for bringing Cubans back for friends? Hell the guy doesn't even smoke!!! Well the situation is laughable here....

[Super Xero]

Give it up US, you won't win your personel "embargo" against the Cuban People, look another form of "Terrorism" by which the US is guilty. If the US want's under it co-called "Democracy" Free Trade, then this man should be allowed, afterall isn't it "Captialist"???

[El Brujo]

Yet another U$ atempt to regain Cuba as their personal corporate whorehouse like in the "good ol Batista days".

[ID2002]

The FBI is now tracking down Canadians who have businesses within the US, and monitoring within the Canadian border.
The "witchhunt" continues........Canada is appealing to the International community and the "UN" (who are infact useless) and has stated CLEARLY that the US---CUBA embargo is unjust and MUST exclude Canadian citizens.
CUBA and CANADA are close trading partners and have formal diplomatic relations. The US clearly wants to interfere with that right!!!
.....The US is making itself a target for more opposition....when you oppress people they will FIGHT BACK!

[Blackberry]

Quote: from ID2002 on 8:30 am on April 5, 2002
The FBI is now tracking down Canadians who have businesses within the US, and monitoring within the Canadian border.
The "witchhunt" continues........Canada is appealing to the International community and the "UN" (who are infact useless) and has stated CLEARLY that the US---CUBA embargo is unjust and MUST exclude Canadian citizens.
CUBA and CANADA are close trading partners and have formal diplomatic relations. The US clearly wants to interfere with that right!!!
.....The US is making itself a target for more opposition....when you oppress people they will FIGHT BACK!


Unfortunately, no-one has been strong enough yet to fight back AND defeat the US.

(Edited by Neutral Nation at 10:19 am on April 5, 2002)

[James]

i think its funny

[BOZG]

Fair dues to Cuba who have still resisted American Imperialism after over 40 years of a trade embargo. Even being so close to American soil they still haven't let them bring destruction to communism in Cuba. And even with the blockade in place they still remain strong and had an economic growth of 3% (highest in Latin America) last year. And until 1959, 80& of Cuban goods were sold in America and 80% of Cuban imports came from America and even after that, communism there remains strong.


VIVA LA REVOLUCION

[poncho]

Under Clinton the U.S. passed a law that would make it legal for the FBI to kidnap criminals wanted in another country, regardless of citizenship or agreements of extradition. Its legal for the FBI to sneak into Canada and kidnap a Canadian suspected of a crime and drag them back to the U.S.A....

How can you support the Embargo Capitalists? When it causes harm to the people of Cuba.

The United States and the supporters of the Embargo should be jailed as criminals.

How many business people will be willing to be jailed for life to do business in Cuba? Children will suffer and the rest of the people.

Some Americans that where invovled with the U.S. company where also charged.

The Canadian owned hotel and resort chain The Four Seasons where looking at developing a resort near Havana but opted out due to Helm Burton. With this many others smaller less U.S. dependant companies will also shy away from Cuba.

How can anyone support this Embargo in light of the harm it does on the Cuban people?

Consider this: Burma is under a simular embargo supported by the U.N and European Union (unlike the Cuban Embargo) but American companies established before the sanctions can still do business inside Burma. This country is far worse than than Cuba. Education is almost Non existant and it ranks second worst in the world for medical care according to the U.N in the world!Also a loop-hole will allow Americans, Europeans or anybody to start new trade ventures with them as well.......But than NO large group of criminals are screaming about Burma in Florida!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nateddi]

Ok where is Imperial Power when you need him.

(sorry, I just love the free-market yuppie right-wingers, more so than the Christian Right).

[BOZG]

Actually the UN has tried to end the Embargo but because they cannot get all member states to vote the same the Embargo continues. The 3 states which vote against the UN all the time are United $tates, Israel and the Marshall Islands (A U$ Protectorate)

[Imperial Power]

ID2002 he wouldnt have been trading cocaine would he?

[poncho]

U.S customs agents are "helping" at Canadian ports in efforts to stop terrorism. I see a connection, do you???

[ID2002]

That Canadian was trading manufactured goods to CUBA which is legal in Canada...and since he had contracts held with Cuban Govn't, he simply could stop because he happened to be in the US. Besides...he wasn't shipping goods from US soil. He was sending his goods back to Canada to be exported from Ontario to CUBA. The USA is playing head games with CANADA again just like they try to FUCK UP the Softwood Lumber Industry in my country, which is also Socialised!

[poncho]

"Defense attorneys had pointed out that Cubans can already purchase many American products, including Coca-Cola and Winston cigarettes, through foreign distributors." --Reuters news

Marlboro,Camel and Pepsi as well....Its a good point....The only reason is because they are American therefore the fear factor does not exist....

BOYCOTT AMERICA for its genocide based ENBARGO

BOYCOTT FLORIDA for its harbouring of TERRORISTS

[Capitalist]

"If you trade with the enemy - then you are an enemy." Che Guevara refering to Cubans who traded with the USA.

The conspiracy counts carry a maximum five years in prison and a $250,000 fine; the trade-embargo counts carry up to 10 years and a $250,000 fine.

NOT LIFE IN PRISON

PLEASE - this is the USA - not Cuba. We let criminals off easy in this country.

I call it slave trade. Trade with China is the same thing.

Cuba steals/nationalizes few American and mostly Cuban business. Then sells business to Canadians and Europeans. Bacardi Rum is perfect example.

It is called extortion!

$250,000
&
10 years

I wonder what freedom of speech in Cuba costs?

Maybe about 20+ years.

The Cubans that crashed the bus into the Mexican Embassy a month ago - I wonder what sentence they will receive from Communist Cuba?

Many Cubans were shot by Che Guevara's tribunals for the crime of conducting business with America and protesting against Fidel Castro's stiff anti-american trade retoric back in the early 1960s.

This same crime - vice/versa in Cuba would cost a man his life.

[Moskitto]

Bacardi Rum is perfect example.

Incase you didn't know, Bacardi rum is made in The Bahamas as I have stated before.

[poncho]

"Incase you didn't know, Bacardi rum is made in The Bahamas as I have stated before"

It was stolen by a family of traitors that fund anti-Castro groups. Boycott the Bacardi thieves

[honest intellectual]

Quote: from Capitalist on 11:44 pm on April 5, 2002[brPLEASE - this is the USA - not Cuba. We let criminals off easy in this country.

'cept when you kill em

[PunkRawker677]

especially when you kill the mentally disabled..

who did that??

oh yes! George Bush Jr.

[queen of diamonds]

NOT LIFE IN PRISON

PLEASE - this is the USA - not Cuba. We let criminals off easy in this country.
except for those that you inject with lethal drugs, right?

I call it slave trade. Trade with China is the same thing.
right. the US doesn't trade with cuba because it's scared of communists, and you know it. and you know what's weird? in spite of trade with china being "the same thing", guess who's hosting the 2008 olympics games, supposedly the symbol of peace and fairness? i don't see the US protesting too much at this....
oh, wait, i forgot....they're too busy with this war on terror!! the same one that inspires americans to attack muslim americans. it's very kind of your country to let off criminals lightly, but maybe you could think about not punishing innocent people, whose only crime is to follow a certain religion?

[poncho]

Where does Cuba get most of its military arms and parts for its Migs?

Why its China and under United States law any country that trades with countries listed as a terrorist state such as Cuba must also be placed under an Embargo and barred from trading with the states....

[ID2002]

Very true "Queen of Diamonds"....

Some ideas:::
Communism is Communism...Socialism is Socialism...they are similar but NOT the same thing! In socialism you can have a democracy...in Communism you can not!

[IzmSchism]

really, it is probably not even the governments doing or handy work that nabbed the Canadians, I would venture to say that it is corporate america who blew the whistle on the Canadian company, with all this damn free trade and competition, they sold bloody water filters, shame, shame....How does that compare to the states when they decide to pimp out Canada for their water, i.e., the alaskan oil pipeline, Bush wanted to throw down an extra pipeline to transport canadian water, softwood lumber: american companies are suing the canadian gov't, (under the laws of NAFTA, they can) for charging too much, no shit we have to bump up the price of wood, there isn't going to be any left, the reforestation is planting forests well below acceptable nitrogen levels, which has its obvious effects, and the lumber takes 80 years to grow before maturation, and even then only 60-70 per cent of the forest is harvestable. Capitalist, you dont think there is a higher form of extortion going on, at the cost of our ecosystem?
Fuck your bacardi rum!

[poncho]

"In the unprecedented case widely regarded as a challenge to Canadian sovereignty, Sabzali was found guilty of a total of 21 counts - 20 counts of violating the U.S. Trading with the Enemy Act and one count of conspiracy.


Seven of the 21 charges relate to actions taken on Canadian soil. Canadian law makes it illegal to comply with the U.S. embargo.


Sabzali faces up to life in prison and fines of more than $19 million US for sales of water-purification supplies on behalf of international subsidiaries of the Pennsylvania-based BroTech Corp.


Two other American executives were also convicted in the case."--Toronto Star

What was the fine structure again Capitalist? You should get your information from reliable sources anti-Castro groups lie.

[Nateddi]

Quote: from ID2002 on 9:27 am on April 6, 2002
Very true "Queen of Diamonds"....

Some ideas:::
Communism is Communism...Socialism is Socialism...they are similar but NOT the same thing! In socialism you can have a democracy...in Communism you can not!


Good God man. Why don't you explain your trait of thought. What kind of socialism are you referring too?

You act as if you are describing dictatorship.

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from ID2002 on 3:27 am on April 6, 2002
Very true "Queen of Diamonds"....

Some ideas:::
Communism is Communism...Socialism is Socialism...they are similar but NOT the same thing! In socialism you can have a democracy...in Communism you can not!



Not quite accurate...

SOCIALISM: An economic system based on public ownership of the most major industries, universal healthcare and public education. Like Communism and Social Democracy, the term Socialism has gone through numerous changes. The term, originally used by Utopians who sought social justice in industrial societies, the term was later used by the followers of Karl Marx interchangeably with Communist and Social Democracy. But following many Socialists sided with their respective countries in World War I — and especially after the Russian Bolshevik Revolution of 1917-1919 — the worlds Socialist parties were seen as more reformist and moderate than Leninist and Communist parties. Today, Socialist politics cover a wide-range of views, from Democratic Socialism to Marxism to Social Democracy.


And while the classic defenition of communism is this:

COMMUNISM: Over the years, the term "Communist" has gone through numerous changes. In the early years of its use, it was used to describe a strongly egalitarian society — similar to the Paris Commune — and was basically undistinguishable from either "Socialist" or "communitarian". However, after Karl Marx published The Communist Manifesto in 1848, it came to be synonymous with Marxism. After the Russian Revolution in 1917, the word narrowed in meaning yet again, now meaning only parties supporting the ideas of Leninism. Further, after the rise of Joseph Stalin in the 1920’s and the subsequent purges of Communist parties all over the planet, the word narrowed still, now meaning only parties how followed the ideology of Stalinism. Today, this is generally regarded as its meaning, though the public tends to regard it as meaning crypto-Stalinist regimes like those in China and North Korea.

Many communists today feal that the term "Dictatorship of the Prol" had been misinterpeted to mean Totalitarianism, and truly means rule of the people... ALL the people... or "Real Democracy".

Most communist parties in the west believe in working within the present government systems.



(Edited by RedCeltic at 12:25 pm on April 8, 2002)

[Moskitto]

In the early years of its use, it was used to describe a strongly egalitarian society — similar to the Paris Commune

This is why I describe myself as a communist, not because I believe Karl Marx to the letter (because I don't because I'm not actually a Marxist.)

(Edited by Moskitto at 8:53 pm on April 8, 2002)

[ID2002]

Sorry guys....I'm coming from an Anthropologic perspective....I needed to clearify myself a little more.

My book states this: Socialism: An economic system based on public ownership of the most major industries, universal
healthcare and public education. Democracy can be exerted freely and without comprimise.

Communism: the farthest extreme in left politics with a Governmental overseeing body which exerts complete control over the state through censorship and political propagnda. Communism is not a democratic system.


....maybe my book is wrong!? ....I'll get more material out on Communism and read during the summer! I am socialist, I will say that much for sure!

[Nateddi]

A truthfull basic definition of communism will not have "political propaganda" in it. Your definision is somethign I can relate to Stalinism.

I have no problem with people being socialists. But I don't like strong anticommunist remarks from them.

(Edited by Nateddi at 10:26 pm on April 8, 2002)

[Moskitto]

I would be a Ballist/Luxemburgist myself.

[ID2002]

Nateddi....your absolutly correct on Communism. True Communism is free from any sort of heavy political rule because it world comprimise the whole concept behind Left ideology.
....my book is crap...old and out of date! Thanks for the wake up call!

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Capitalist on 6:44 pm on April 5, 2002
"If you trade with the enemy - then you are an enemy." Che Guevara refering to Cubans who traded with the USA.
Che Guevara did not hate all Americans. For example, he was interviewed by Jerry Rubin (who was born and raised in Ohio if I remember correctly). Other American publications and reporters interviewed him as well. He didn't hate all Americans. I doubt that he was referring to Cubans who trade with Americans. He was probably referring to Cubans who trade with capitalist-minded businesses in America, unless that quote was made up or taken out of completely context.

There is a huge difference between the trade philosophy of Che Guevara and the philosophy that, more or less, has been shared by US presidents for decades. Che disagreed with the ideas of many Americans, but he saw them as human beings. He sure didn't want Cubans trading with, say, Nike. But he didn't want to starve Americans, either. US president, meanwhile, have kept this embargo up. The purpose of an embargo is to make the residents of a country so miserable that they rebel against and eventually overthrow their government. The US, through its far reach and totalitarianism on a global scale, has kept up a brutal embargo against Cuba. Cuba, however, isn't trying to starve Americans.