Solidarity and other labor movements in the Soviet bloc

[Os Cangaceiros]

What's everyone's opinion of the Polish Solidarity movement? Was it a positive or negative force, or a little of both?

I only ask because I'm currently learning about the Soviet bloc states and their relation to labor. And from what I've read, they didn't exactly treat many of the workers with kid gloves, on a few occasions; the massacre of over forty strikers at Gdnask being somewhat indicative of this.

Many workers also participated in mass demonstrations in the 50s as well, in Poland (including a wildcat strike), Czechoslovakia, and Hungary.

Anyway, opinions?

[Os Cangaceiros]

I thought that there would be more interest in this topic...:(

[Psy]

What's everyone's opinion of the Polish Solidarity movement? Was it a positive or negative force, or a little of both?

I only ask because I'm currently learning about the Soviet bloc states and their relation to labor. And from what I've read, they didn't exactly treat many of the workers with kid gloves, on a few occasions; the massacre of over forty strikers at Gdnask being somewhat indicative of this.

Many workers also participated in mass demonstrations in the 50s as well, in Poland (including a wildcat strike), Czechoslovakia, and Hungary.

Anyway, opinions?

Your right in that the Soviet bloc had problems in meeting the needs of workers. Even in Russia workers quickly saw the State Planning Commission the same way we in the west see our managers. One has to ask if the USSR was really a workers state why were suits planning the economy?

I think Solidarity was a little of both, on one hand the workers stood up as a class, on the other hand they were unable to reform the system or take the means product, thus resulted became 'meet the new boss, just like the old boss', with workers having to put up with the same suits they fought before but now the suits were capitalists.

[Intelligitimate]

Soldarity was totally reactionary, and a CIA front. It's leaders presided over the destruction of socialism and the installation of capitalism.

Here is the motherfucker Walesa crying over Reagan:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/walesa.jpg


The AFT, the CIA, and Solidarność (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:P_lE9VhmaPwJ:www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/furraft82.pdf+Solidarno%C5%9B%C4%87+furr&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us)

Even the Orthodox Trotskyists agree:

Solidarnosc: Acid Test for Trotskyism (http://www.bolshevik.org/Pamphlets/Solidarnosc/solidarnosc.html)

Anyone who supports this group should be immediately restricted for supporting extreme reactionary capitalist trash.

[Os Cangaceiros]

What do you think about the other worker actions and groups?

I'd also like to add that Solidarity had over ten million members, composed of the genuine proletariat. Even if we conclude that their leaders were reactionaries, this certainly says something about worker satisfaction in Poland, does it not?

[Intelligitimate]

Big fucking deal. The Nazis had 8.5 million members, mostly workers. What the fuck does that say about "worker satisfaction in Germany"?


Why does the CIA support Solidarity? Because -- as the WSJ's nervous editorial shows -- the CIA, the AFL-CIO, the U.S. ruling class, in fact everyone but the public, from whom the truth has been withheld, knows that Solidarity is as reactionary as they come. It is a fascist organization, not unlike Hitler's, resembling nothing so much as the Moscow and Warsaw "communists" whom it opposes so bitterly. Solidarity not only tolerates but also itself promotes anti-Semitism: Unsigned leaflets at Solidarity's summer congress hinted darkly at Jewish figures in the union; questions were asked at some union meetings about the role or presence of Jews; in Solidarity's large Warsaw branch. a 'true Poles' faction grew up, a throwback to eruptions of bigotry in pre-World War II Poland. (V. Hamill, Washington Post, December 26 1981).

The WSJ's Frederick Kempe, who attended the Gdansk Congress of Solidarity (September-October 1981) wrote that about 100 of the 800-plus delegates were “at least sympathizers” of the KPN, a conservative, nationalist group “tainted with a history of anti-Semitism.” Marian Jurczyk, Solidarity vice-president for Szczecin and presidential candidate, used anti-Semitism to attack the Polish government in an October speech (New York Times, January 9 1982). Solidarity has adopted Josef Pilsudski, prewar fascist dictator of Poland, as its hero, renaming the Gdansk shipyards after him on 11/11/81. Under Pilsudski unions were busted, workers shot down, opponents tortured, concentration camps set up (after a visit from Goebbels in 1934, accompanied by officially tolerated pogroms), and anti-Semitic laws enforced. Leaders of Solidarity include members of the prewar Polish Socialist Party and Home Army veterans; both groups were anti-Semitic.

The Polish Catholic Church, also powerful in Solidarity, has a disgusting history of anti-Semitism. In 1936 Cardinal Hlond, Primate (until 1948) of Poland, wrote in a pastoral letter, read aloud in all churches: “The Jewish influence upon morals is fatal.” Jews, he continued, spread fraud, usury, white slavery, and pornography. Good Christians should boycott them. In Poland as elsewhere racism is used to divert the workers' movement towards scapegoats, away from its real enemies, and into pro-capitalist directions. The same Solidarity Congress that invited Kirkland voted to urge Poland join the International Monetary Fund (i.e. an end to subsidies for workers in food, housing, etc.) and directly approved a price increase and renunciation of free Saturdays! As for Walesa, he is an enthusiastic supporter of Reagan (Evans and Novak, New York Post, December 8 1980) and of capitalism. Walesa met secretly with the presidents of Ford, General Dynamics, Westinghouse, and big shots from IBM, Heinz, TWA, etc. in Paris in October to discuss how he was going “to be able to control the workers' movement”(Le Canard Enchaîné, December 16 1981). For – as all good capitalists agree – the bankers must be paid.

It should perhaps sadden, certainly enrage, but not surprise us to see Shanker and the AFT promoting racist, anti-worker gangs like the CIA and Solidarity. Shanker supported the Vietnam War and calls himself a "certified hawk"; he holds office by corruption and the “unit rule” in NYC and NY State AFT. He and Walesa are birds of a feather, loyal supporters of big business, enemies of workers everywhere, clones of one another just as are the CIA and KGB, or Reagan and Brezhnev. A real workers' revolt, here as in Poland, would be directed first against these wolves in sheep's clothing, traitors who prey on the crying needs of workers and others for a better life.

[mikelepore]

In the 1980s some of us thought that Lech Walesa and Solidarity were on the verge of fighting for democratic control of production by the workers. Some of their speeches made it seem that way. We got all excited. We were wrong. I was wrong. It turned out to be nothing but a pro-capitalist movement.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Big fucking deal. The Nazis had 8.5 million members, mostly workers. What the fuck does that say about "worker satisfaction in Germany"?

Jesus, will you stop being so shrill?

My point shouldn't be very hard to understand. If the socialist governments in Europe were actual advocates of the working class, then organizations like Solidarity would not gain any traction, would they? If workers weren't getting exploited, there would be no draw to ANY reactionary organization. Instead, the situation was one of workers being prodded back to their workplaces at bayonnet point.

I'm not defending Solidarity. I'm trying to analyze the context in which it existed.

But go ahead, curse at me some more. :rolleyes:

[Comrade Hector]

Soldarity was totally reactionary, and a CIA front. It's leaders presided over the destruction of socialism and the installation of capitalism.

Here is the motherfucker Walesa crying over Reagan:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/walesa.jpg


The AFT, the CIA, and Solidarność (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:P_lE9VhmaPwJ:www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/furraft82.pdf+Solidarno%C5%9B%C4%87+furr&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us)

Even the Orthodox Trotskyists agree:

Solidarnosc: Acid Test for Trotskyism (http://www.bolshevik.org/Pamphlets/Solidarnosc/solidarnosc.html)

Anyone who supports this group should be immediately restricted for supporting extreme reactionary capitalist trash.

A good pamphlet of Solidarnosc was pubthe Spartacist League "Solidarnosc: Comany Union for CIA and Bankers", an excellent read I might add. This piece of shit Walesa today is working endlessly for counter-revolution in Cuba with that asshole Vaclav Havel. By the way, Joan Baez had written a song honoring Walesa after the crackdown on Solidarnosc "Happy Birthday, Leonid Brezhnev". I lost a hell of a lot of respect I had for her. Here are the lyrics:

"
Happy birthday, Leonid Brezhnev
What a lovely seventy-fifth
We watched the party on TV
You seemed to be taking things casually
What a mighty heart must beat in your breast
To hold forty-nine medals on your chest
Think of all the gifts that you've got
Some were acquired and some were not
Like a natural talent for marionettes
Who do your dirty work and cover your bets
So with one hand waving free
The other one crushed a budding democracy

Congratulations, Jaruzelski
What a wonderful job you have done
Let me mention to a sane man's eye
You've lost the meaning of compromise
They're comparing you to General Pinochet
It's a dubious compliment at best
Your people are freezing, the workers are bleeding
You've already arranged numerous deaths
The only difference in the camps from the stadiums
Is not much for the doomed all cry
It's only the weather and the songs people sing
Just before they die

Do you hear us, Lech Walesa?
What a terrible price you have paid
For being ahead of your time
Has surely constituted a crime
Oh, Mr. Brezhnev, look
Somebody read the little red book
And took it all seriously
The way you did when you were young and you believed
And you workers and you black Madonna
You're not supposed to utter a word
But the courage of you and your man of the year
Is a symphony the world has seldom seen or heard
Through the Siberian gates of hell
The Pope and the bishops are wishing you well
We see your candles in the park
Hear your fearless promises in the dark
How they cheat and when tried to win
They didn't know that there would always be within you
And we hear you, Lech Walesa
Yes, we hear you, Lech Walesa
Yes, we hear you, Lech Walesa
Yes, we hear you, Lech Walesa"

[Comrade Hector]

What do you think about the other worker actions and groups?

I'd also like to add that Solidarity had over ten million members, composed of the genuine proletariat. Even if we conclude that their leaders were reactionaries, this certainly says something about worker satisfaction in Poland, does it not?

Very true, but the fact is Solidarnosc represented counter-revolution. Their entire program revolved around Polish nationalism, anti-semitism, and anti-Russian and anti-German chauvinism; as well as anti-abortion, and anti-woman. The crackdown in 1981 was ultimately progressive. Lets not forget that Solidarnosc is/was the only "trade union" that Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, and Karol Wojtyla (John Paul II) ever loved.

[A.J.]

Well, look at poor Poland today. As someone recently said it's like "the Mexico of Europe".

You could say Lech Walesa and 'Solidarnosc' succeeded where Hitler and the nazis failed i.e. turn the Poles into the slaves of western Europe......

[Wanted Man]

By the way, Joan Baez had written a song honoring Walesa after the crackdown on Solidarnosc "Happy Birthday, Leonid Brezhnev". I lost a hell of a lot of respect I had for her. Here are the lyrics:
Haha, that song is very clear about its politics. Funny, usually "protest songs" were fairly cryptic, without clearly denouncing anyone. You wouldn't want to offend college liberals, after all.

[YSR]

The history and meaning of Solidarity is a little more nuanced than Stalinist revisionism would have you believe.

It was an authentic, working class movement against the state capitalist regime. It was autonomous, decentralized, a perfect example of how to organize a labor movement effectively in the modern world. Its use of strikes and occupations indicate the continued militancy and ingenuity of the Polish working class. Solidarity utilized symbols and creativity in the course of class struggle, an important piece of revolutionary praxis. It, along with the power of the working class in the Soviet Union, helped bring down the state capitalist regimes of Eastern Europe.

That said, the traditional Leninist and capitalist substitutionism of individuals for movements confuses what Solidarity was and what it ended up becoming. Solidarity was not always Lech Walesa. It became Lech Walesa, and in that transformation, it became reactionary. Walesa was a brilliant organizer and a scummy politician who exploited the working class to get elected and proceeded to lay waste to the conditions of the working class in Poland.

But Solidarity, in its earlier days, was a fantastically progressive force and model for class struggle around the industrialized world. As it progressed, it became more and more a mirror image of that regime it opposed. Like so many resistance movements, it ultimately became co-opted by the forces of state and international capital. It was handicapped also, unfortunately, by the historical and continuing appeals of nationalism, antisemitism and Catholicism to the Polish working class. The revolutionary movement in Poland has long been profoundly nationalistic, in response to historical Tsarist and Soviet invasions, and this nationalism was exploited by the officials of Solidarity to become the new bourgeoisie of post-Soviet Poland.

All in all, Solidarity is a mixed bag: a great example of both how to organize anti-capitalist struggle and how not to organize anti-capitalist struggle. Prol-position has a decent account of class struggle in Poland that's worth checking out (http://libcom.org/library/migration-industry-and-struggles-in-poland-1956-2005).

[Severian]

It was an authentic, working class movement against the state capitalist regime. It was autonomous, decentralized, a perfect example of how to organize a labor movement effectively in the modern world.

I think you're overstating the case a bit. It was a workers' organization, and of course one has to side with fellow workers against a privileged caste. I'm with you there.

Also with you: there was a lot more rank-and-file control, and some socialist-democracy tendencies, initially than later. The banning of Solidarity by the regime broke up the rank-and-file organization and let "intellectuals" and bureaucrats play a much bigger role. And, of course, the imperialists and their union bureaucrats sent aid to Solidarity in order to influence it in a pro-capitalist direction; there was no major class-struggle upsurge in the advanced capitalist countries to influence Polish workers in another direction.

And finally: there's no reason to mourn the demise of the Soviet-bloc regimes, despite the hellish market policies that followed. We could wish their overthrow had gone in a socialist direction instead. But it was those regimes' crimes in the name of communism that destroyed that possibility, and the longer they ruled the less socialist consciousness and potential there was. The world workers movement is still recovering from the damage the apparatchiks did, but now that they're gone at least the recovery can start.

The sooner they were brought down from within the better, and at least workers, by fighting them, gained some experience in struggle and organization which were useful in resisting the market and austerity policies.

But Solidarity was, mostly, simply a trade union, with all the limitations of pure-and-simple trade unionism. It couldn't be anything else, with socialist consciousness in the Soviet bloc basically wiped out by decades of bureaucratic rule, so I'm not blaming the Polish workers. And trade unionism is a necessary starting point, as well as something workers use to defend their basic material interests. Even trade union demands, BTW, ran counter to the austerity policies which were promoted by market ideologists and Poland's Western creditors even in the 1980s....

Let's not act as if they were the greatest thing sliced bread, that's all. That'd be overrating trade unionism and trade-union consciousness.

***

Agora77, what can you do, these kind of topics always attract those who seem towish the Soviet bloc regimes had been (or stayed) even more obscurantist, bureaucratic, and repressive.

[Intelligitimate]

It should come as no surprise that anarchists will support anything anti-communist, even outright anti-Semitic fascist organizations with CIA connections.


Solidarity was not always Lech Walesa.

Walesa created the fucking organization, and it was always anti-communist.

[YSR]

Please stop flaming.

Walesa did not create the organization. He was the first secretary of it. It was created by the workers at the Lenin shipyard.

[Intelligitimate]

Stop supporting anti-Semitic fascist organizations funded by the CIA please.

[Magdalen]

Lech Walesa was rabid anti-semitic, sexist, racist homophobe, directly funded by Thatcher and Reagan, who posed as a socialist reformer in order to convince ordinary Poles to support the imperialist takeover of their country.

Enough said.

[Comrade Hector]

The history and meaning of Solidarity is a little more nuanced than Stalinist revisionism would have you believe.

It was an authentic, working class movement against the state capitalist regime. It was autonomous, decentralized, a perfect example of how to organize a labor movement effectively in the modern world. Its use of strikes and occupations indicate the continued militancy and ingenuity of the Polish working class. Solidarity utilized symbols and creativity in the course of class struggle, an important piece of revolutionary praxis. It, along with the power of the working class in the Soviet Union, helped bring down the state capitalist regimes of Eastern Europe.

That said, the traditional Leninist and capitalist substitutionism of individuals for movements confuses what Solidarity was and what it ended up becoming. Solidarity was not always Lech Walesa. It became Lech Walesa, and in that transformation, it became reactionary. Walesa was a brilliant organizer and a scummy politician who exploited the working class to get elected and proceeded to lay waste to the conditions of the working class in Poland.

But Solidarity, in its earlier days, was a fantastically progressive force and model for class struggle around the industrialized world. As it progressed, it became more and more a mirror image of that regime it opposed. Like so many resistance movements, it ultimately became co-opted by the forces of state and international capital. It was handicapped also, unfortunately, by the historical and continuing appeals of nationalism, antisemitism and Catholicism to the Polish working class. The revolutionary movement in Poland has long been profoundly nationalistic, in response to historical Tsarist and Soviet invasions, and this nationalism was exploited by the officials of Solidarity to become the new bourgeoisie of post-Soviet Poland.

All in all, Solidarity is a mixed bag: a great example of both how to organize anti-capitalist struggle and how not to organize anti-capitalist struggle. Prol-position has a decent account of class struggle in Poland that's worth checking out (http://libcom.org/library/migration-industry-and-struggles-in-poland-1956-2005).

Solidarnosc did win over about 80% of the Polish working class, but by no means did it represent the interest of the workers. Solidarnosc was a front for the most reactionary elements: the CIA, MI-6, the Vatican, as well as Wallstreet and Frankfurt bankers. Not to mention the only "trade union" Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher ever loved. The Solidarnosc "militancy" was not a struggle for workers but a struggle to bring back the landowners, capitalists, authority of the Catholic church, and the Polish ruling class. You seem to look upon the forces of counter-revolution in Eastern Europe as a triumphant liberation for workers. This is an illusion carried out by many leftists sadly. Your position puts you right up there on the side of Boris Yeltsin, Lech Walesa, Vaclav Havel, George H.W. Bush, Margaret Thatcher, Pope Wojtyla, and other reactionaries. Solidarnosc was about struggling for capitalism.

[BobKKKindle$]

Although Solidarity was a counter-revolutionary organization, there were other workers movements in the Socialist bloc which were not counter-revolutionary, for example, the Hungarian uprising in 1956, which was essentially an attempt by the working class to destroy the bureaucracy which had been imposed by the Soviets, and establish a workers state based on democracy, expressed through soviets located in major urban centers. It is unfortunate that this event is so often twisted to make it seem as if workers were demanding the restoration of capitalism.

[communard resolution]

"Communist" Poland was a despicable state capitalist bureaucracy that didn't give a shit about its people. I was born in Warsaw, and I remember queuing for basic food for five hours when I was a kid and then being sent home without getting any. Meanwhile, communist party members and police had the privilege to do their daily shopping in stores where they could buy essential basics such as caviar and champagne, as well as a wide selection of Western goods. Don't tell me this is Western propaganda or any crap like that, because I WAS THERE AND I KNOW. If Solidarnosc managed to bring that government down, then that's the one good thing they did. If you think the Polish "Communists" had any socialist credentials at all, you are seriously deluding yourself. They were a bunch of rich, authoritarian, cynical, corrupt parasites waving red flags to cover up their greed.

However, I agree that Solidarnosc is an essentially reactionary clique, and it's quite symptomatic that whenever Walesa appeared in public, he had a priest by his side whispering in his ear. I wish there had been a genuine leftist opposition in the 80s, then again you can't blame people for assuming a reactionary position if the only "Communism" they ever knew was the one that was sucking them dry, kicking their asses, and spitting on them.

There was a some genuine leftist/Marxist protest against the government coming from student circles in 1960s Poland. Quite rightly, these students demanded real socialism and claimed that the Polish government was communist only in name. When the Polish authorities found out that a lot of these students were of Jewish background, Minister of Interior Mieczysław Moczar started a broad anti-semitic campaign playing on the largely Catholic Poles' traditional antisemitism. Jews were kicked out of university or lost their jobs and were 'asked' to leave the country (which in most cases meant a one-way train ticket to Budapest or Prague and the instruction to never come back). So this was the way the Polish "Communist" government dealt with genuine leftists.


Soldarity was totally reactionary, and a CIA front. It's leaders presided over the destruction of socialism and the installation of capitalism.

[communard resolution]

Anyone who supports this group should be immediately restricted for supporting extreme reactionary capitalist trash.

I somewhat agree (blame it on the Solidarnosc leaders, though, not on the Polish workers who followed them), but I suggest to restrict everybody who in any way supports the criminal, antisemitic, parasitic, "communist" regime of Poland.

[communard resolution]

Very true, but the fact is Solidarnosc represented counter-revolution. Their entire program revolved around Polish nationalism, anti-semitism, and anti-Russian and anti-German chauvinism; as well as anti-abortion, and anti-woman. The crackdown in 1981 was ultimately progressive. Lets not forget that Solidarnosc is/was the only "trade union" that Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, and Karol Wojtyla (John Paul II) ever loved.

Antisemitism? Read my previous post on official Polish antisemitism in the 1960s. Even in the 80s, it wasn't below the Polish government to suggest that Solidarnosc was "infested with Jews". Small wonder that in the 90s, ultra-nationalist/fascist Polish skinhead band Sztorm 68 decided that the Polish 'communist' government had been a "true National Socialist" regime and wrote songs in honour of Moczar (Polish minister of interior in the 60s) as well as a song "Dziekujemy" in which they thanked Jaruzelski in hindsight for declaring martial law in '81 and thus trying to save Poland from the Jews.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"Communist" Poland was a despicable state capitalist bureaucracy that didn't give a shit about its people.It was a bureaucratized proletarian state. Capitalist property relations were overturned at the end of WW2, although it was done in a way that affixed a ruling bureaucracy at the head of the state. This bureaucratic caste enjoyed privilege from it's position, but it was not a new ruling class, because it did not own the means of production.


I was born in Warsaw, and I remember queuing for basic food for five hours when I was a kid and then being sent home without getting any. Now you can you walk right up and get your food with no waiting at all.. that is if you can afford it.

The food lines came about as result of problems that were born out of the contradictions involved with a bureaucratic caste ruling over collectivized property.. they emerged as the bureaucratized proletarian states began to fall apart.. They were not there from the very beginning.


Don't tell me this is Western propaganda or any crap like that, because I WAS THERE AND I KNOW.Those sorts of arguments aren't the best to make here. I'm not doubting you, but there's really no way for us to know who you are or what you've seen.. and even if we could, anecdotal evidence is not reliable.

It's best if you back up your arguments with hard evidence.


If Solidarnosc managed to bring that government down, then that's the one good thing they did... they did it with the help of U.S. imperialism and the Catholic clergy. They destroyed a bureaucratized proletarian state and constructed a reactionary capitalist state -- one that bans abortion outright and sells off nationalized property to the highest bidder -- in its place. It's something that every communist should have fought against.


If you think the Polish "Communists" had any socialist credentials at all, you are seriously deluding yourself.
They were a bunch of rich, authoritarian, cynical, corrupt parasites waving red flags to cover up their greed.And the new, capitalist ruling class doesn't have to wave a red flag at all. They don't need to pretend to be friends of workers, because the new system is based on private-ownership by a handful of rich parasites. They can be openly greedy while the working masses of Poland suffer.

* * *

Solidarność was a fake "union" front for the U.S./Catholic Church-backed counterrevolution. Ronald Reagan heaped praise upon it while simultaneously smashing the PATCO strike in the U.S., and leading a capitalist crusade against unions and workers' states and movements around the world. Anyone who lined up with Solidarność put themselves in the camp of imperialism.. having the same goals as the CIA cutthroats that do the bidding of Wall Street.

[communard resolution]

It was a bureaucratized proletarian state. Capitalist property relations were overturned at the end of WW2, although it was done in a way that affixed a ruling bureaucracy at the head of the state. This bureaucratic caste enjoyed privilege from it's position, but it was not a new ruling class, because it did not own the means of production.Caste or class, they were a bunch of parasites who were only interested in maintaining their positions of privilege and didn't give two shits about the people.


Now you can you walk right up and get your food with no waiting at all.. that is if you can afford it.I don't mean to defend present-day capitalism in Poland, but I do think people can afford basic needs such as food, even those who are barely getting by. There's a difference between 'barely getting by' and queuing for 5 hours and then going home empty-handed because there isn't even enough bread for everybody. Did you ever starve in your life?

Having said that, I did not defend or support present-day capitalism in PL in my post, so I'm not sure why you relativize the situation in "communist" Poland by comparing it to the present situation.



Those sorts of arguments aren't the best to make here. I'm not doubting you, but there's really no way for us to know who you are or what you've seen.. and even if we could, anecdotal evidence is not reliable.I can see where you're coming from, and I wish I had hard evidence to back up my claims. Sadly, I didn't take the time to collect factual evidence back when I was a kid in Poland - it simply didn't occur to me that two decades down the line, I would have to prove the misery that surrounded me to people on revleft.

The reason I brought up my personal experience is because it angers me to see certain people defending every criminal regime of parasites there ever was as long as it claimed to be communist. The party elite and the police in PL were shopping luxury Western goods in exclusive stores while the common people didn't even have enough basic food to fill their stomachs. Still, you have people on revleft who are willing to defend these scumbags from a purely theoretical perspective, without ever having experienced any of it. It is this kind of arrogance that makes it impossible for me not to get emotional and at least refer to some of my real-life experiences, if only to illustrate why I'm angry and will never be able to accept privileged 'communists' from the West who defend the parasites that were shitting on us for decades.

This is not to attack you because I basically understand your argument: you don't know who I am, what agenda I might have, whether I made it all up, etc. I'm just trying to explain why I'm getting emotional and resort to 'anecdotal' references. I cannot 'prove' it, but I've lived through it and perceive certain leftists' attempts at defending PL 'communism' as offensive and arrogant.

As for how the PL regime dealt with genuine leftists, I wrote about that in my previous posts.


.. they did it with the help of U.S. imperialism and the Catholic clergy. They destroyed a bureaucratized proletarian state and constructed a reactionary capitalist state -- one that bans abortion outright and sells off nationalized property to the highest bidder -- in its place. It's something that every communist should have fought against.Agreed. They're no less greedy, parasitic, and antisemitic than their 'communist' predecessors. One bunch of scumbags was replaced by a different bunch of scumbags. It's a sad story.


Anyone who lined up with Solidarność put themselves in the camp of imperialism.. having the same goals as the CIA cutthroats that do the bidding of Wall Street.I agree about Solidarnosc, but you cannot blame common people who were desperate to overthrow their 'communist' oppressors for siding with Solidarnosc. These common people did not have "the same goals as the CIA cutthoats that do the bidding on Wall Street", even though the Soliarnosc elite and whoever backed them might have had. To most of the people who participated in the strikes, communism was synomymous with oppression, elitism, exploitation, arrogance, and poverty. They didn't know any better.

Whatever leftist/Marxist resistance against the PL regime there was was nipped in the bud and denounced as "Jewish" (they regime didn't even take the trouble to rebrand it as "Zionist").

EDIT: My post is not meant to be anti-Communist, anti-Socialist, or pro-capitalist. It is anti the elitist scumbags who were running Poland for four decades.