Israel vs. Palestine

[Imperial Power]

I'll have to say the Israelies have gone to far. With every incursion further into Palestine they bring more terrorism.

I don't agree with the Palestinians suicide bombing. You can see the US dilema it is like pulling to fighting children appart. They have to play both sides because both are right and wrong.

[Xvall]

Whoa... I can actually agree partially with you on something today! Yay!

Yes. I agree that the Israelies are making the situation worse. And I also disagree with the bombing of innocnet civilians. I wouldn't like to think of them as 'fighting children' though.

- Drake Dracoli

[Blackberry]

Quote: from Imperial Power on 11:51 pm on April 2, 2002
I'll have to say the Israelies have gone to far. With every incursion further into Palestine they bring more terrorism.

I don't agree with the Palestinians suicide bombing. You can see the US dilema it is like pulling to fighting children appart. They have to play both sides because both are right and wrong.


I think that America is secretly on Arafat's side on this one.

But since in the past they have made it clear they were allied with Israel, they now can't just abandon them, and admit they are wrong.

This is one stupid mistake that America needs to learn from, on top of all the others.

Hopefully peace will come about soon.

[Moskitto]

Just have a secular country, not a Jewish dominated country where if your Jewish you can get citizenship, or an Islamic country where they behead people for going out on dates. That would solve problems.

[Anonymous]

I totally agree with you IP, the Israelis have gone too far, they can give in and give them their state or can they, most of the palestinian teens now have an aim in life to just kill as many israelis as they can, the israelis have gone far too deep and cannot get themselves back out. Maybe US intervention could solve it, it is a very delicate situation.

[Michael De Panama]

It's just a war based on religion. That's just silly to begin with. Killing anyone in the name of your religion, regardless of who started it, is just stupid. Since most Marxists are opposed to the Judao/Christian ideology, they side with Palestine. Quite personally, I think the whole war is just pointless. I don't believe that there should be this much violence for the ownership of land. I don't believe that any Marxist should feel as though one side deserves ownership more than the other.

This is not a one-sided issue. There are a whole lot of horror stories coming from Palestine about the violence and oppression that Israel has shown them, and there are just as many horror stories coming from Israel about the terroristic attacks of the Palestinians.

Neither deserve that land. If it means that they will kill one another in the name of their religion, and no one really knows who started it, it shouldn't belong to either side. Turn Jerusalem into a fucking lake for all I care. Call it, "Lake 'Who Gives A Damn?'" It would save more lives than the ongoing endless war right now.

[Reuben]

I think it is more based on ethnicity than religion. Manyy jews there including sharon are completely secular.

Sad to say but I think Israel went too far in 1948 when they expelled 700,000 palestinians

[guerrillaradio]

It's a case of patriotism. Palestinian suicide bombers are no less right-wing than the trigger-happy Israelis. Both sides believe that a few miles of land is infinitely more important than thousands or even millions of lives. There's no room for negotiation, no dialogue, no compromise. America can do very little, it's very hard to find a way out of this one.

[CheateN02]

ahh

(Edited by CheateN02 at 9:28 pm on April 3, 2002)

[Guest]

great comment by the last contributor....wtf


in anycase I just wanted to point out that while the conflict has been shrouded in religion particularly by the Palestinians who use it to make the prospect of Murder/suicide appealing to their youth, it is not religious in nature at all.
At its root this is a conflict of competing nationalistic visions. Israel while a jewish homeland, was granted the status of a nation by the UN because of the ethnic aspects of the transnational Jewish "nation".
Finally before irrationally bashing "judeo christianity" whatever that means, just remember as marxists, that it was the WESTERN outlook that created your ethos.

[Nateddi]

Quote: from CheateN02 on 4:08 pm on April 3, 2002

Israel has always went too far with everything i just wish hilter did kill all the fucking jews (Im not a nazi) they are just a waste of space and are evil.


I am a Jew. I don't support the Israeli government, but I don't consider myself 'fucking evil'. And I do not wish that Hitler would have killed my ancestors. There are racism rules on the board. Follow them.

[ThomasT]

I've to totally agree with imperial power! I'm also in the mind that bombs don't solve this conflict, they make it worse, much worse! I can't believe that sharon isn't seeing the lack of sence of military operations... and that they only bring up more terrorist attacks & cost more inocent lives... he does see that.... he wants this war!!

How ignorant & selfish can mankind be...
The only solution I can see is to raise the comming generations with respect of other religions, other idears, other races.... the only peaceful future of our world lies in respecting eachother.... & everyone of us can get a little, but important, part in a world of respect, helpfulnes and accepting eachother in the different but beatutiful ways our cultures are!

[Kingnothing]

Hey. I just wanted to say that I do not believe that the war over palestine is a religious war. The real bassis of the war is an economic situation. This situation is, that , on the one hand, jewish isrealis control the economy of the country and act as the burgoise exploitng class whilst the palestinian ghetto dwellers are used as cheap labour and are exploited en isreali sweatshops. This is not a war over religion... it is class struggle.

[Blackberry]

Quote: from Kingnothing on 10:44 pm on April 3, 2002
Hey. I just wanted to say that I do not believe that the war over palestine is a religious war. The real bassis of the war is an economic situation. This situation is, that , on the one hand, jewish isrealis control the economy of the country and act as the burgoise exploitng class whilst the palestinian ghetto dwellers are used as cheap labour and are exploited en isreali sweatshops. This is not a war over religion... it is class struggle.

Yes, this is certainly not a religious war. I really don't like this war to be called a religious war, because religion has nothing to do with it.

Many people around the world blame religion for most, if not, all wars.

Sure, there may be a two different religions, but people fail to see the real cause. Such as India and Pakistan's conflict for example.

[Imperial Power]

Well the way I see it is the the Palestinians are still upset about the new boundaries of Israel drawn up after the 1967 war. Now the Israli citizens have spread past those boundaries and 200,000 are living on Paelstinian land. They don't think they should move becasue the land was actually theirs 2,000 years ago. The palestinians say you left it's ours. An impossible dilema but one thing is sure, thats violence will only make it worse.

[Imperial Power]

I'd like to hear why you all think the Jews are persecuted so much? What is it they have actually done? I'm aware they are seen as controlling the media, the diamond trade, and many succesful businesses in Europe which led to Hitler's hate. But these are not crimes in themselves.

[El Che]

"I'd like to hear why you all think the Jews are persecuted so much? What is it they have actually done? I'm aware they are seen as controlling the media, the diamond trade, and many succesful businesses in Europe which led to Hitler's hate. But these are not crimes in themselves."

As you know Jews left their land over 2000 years ago in what is called the diaspora. Jews are good at what they do, in trades, arts and sciences you see that some of the most influencial people in these areas are jewish. This conjuction of factors is fertile ground for xenofobia and racism. Unlike other foriegn minorities the Jewish one is both influencial and powerful wherever it may be. This is what makes them a preferencial traget. I agree that the Jews need a contry of their own, but they need to find some deserted inland or unocupied area of the globe for plalestine is no longer theirs and it shall never be, no matter how many they kill.

(Edited by El Che at 6:30 am on April 4, 2002)

[poncho]

I remember several years ago (1991) a news story of how Israel's army people borded a school bus looking for i.d's, a twelve year old did not have it on her and made some remark in regards to being pro Palestine. One soldier shot her in the head. Israel wonders why they have so many suicide bombers.

Where I live we have a pretty large Jewish population and pro-Israel groups etc etc etc, net result if one of the papers or other newsmedia says anything anti-Israel they are labelled anti-semite if they persist they become a Nazi...I wonder why?

Sharon led a tank invasion of Beruit in 1973, on his way out he ordered the attack of a unarmed refugee camp. I have a Lebonese friend who for show an tell told of how the Jews came and kicked his family out of there home, shot and killed the grandmother because she refused to leave. Yet Israel wonders why they have suicide bombers.

More recently a Israeli Minister was calling Palestians animals that need to be irradicated. Several days later a ambulance was not allowed to pick-up wounded Palestine citizens in Bethleham. Israel has banned the press from covering the house searches that they are conducting door to door of Palestine owned homes.

I cannot condone the suicide attacks but I cannot call them terrorist acts. Its a call to the world that a race of people are being destroyed.

[Reuben]

El Che I agree with you hugely on what you said. ALthough it is not true to say jews were powerful and influential wherever they.

In the russian empire where my family came from jews were traditionally mainly very poor and incluided a large peasent population ass well as a big industrial working.

Although I agree enthusiastically with what yoou say.

Poncho, be careful not to confuse jew with zionist. The jews didnt kick anyone out oof their house the Israeli government did. when say that the way your newspaper is restricted is a resulted of a large jewish population, I think it would be more accurate to say that it is a large zionnist population. The presence of one ethnic group is not an issue, If i was there i certainly wouldnt contribute to zionism, the political view of people is the issue.

[Guest1]

I thank you, reuben for renewing my faith in the human race. I'm of palestinian origin, I have a couple of non-zionist jewish friends and it's always good to hear more speak out.

[poncho]

Reuben,

I should not have lumped all the Jewish people, you are right. Its the groups and some people but not all!

[ID2002]

I'm new here...and a strong Socialist supporter! Been to Cuba 3 times already, and they love Canadians! I've never had a problem in Cuba....anyway...about the Middle East Conflict:: the Isreal has gone WAY WAY WAY too far, and is causing serious harm to the peace process that so many countries have taken part in! Fighting will only lead to FULL OUT WAR! HAMAS organisation gets more power from civilian deaths and the mistreatment of Palistinians...so they become even more active.
......if only the fighting were to stop!!! You could see a change.....

[Reuben]

Thanks poncho. Thats alright.

ID2002, welcome to che-lives. I agree completely with what you have said, Ithough I think that Israel are deliberately trying to build up and enfranchise Hamas so that their enemy, the palestinians. have no legitamacy and they can contrevene their rights as they wish, as their doing at the moment

(Edited by Reuben at 10:39 am on April 5, 2002)

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Imperial Power on 4:12 am on April 4, 2002
I'd like to hear why you all think the Jews are persecuted so much? What is it they have actually done?

The original crime the Jews are accused of by some fundamental Christians (including the Ku Klux Klan) is murdering Jesus Christ. This is the original reason that Jews were disliked by many Europeans and Americans. During the Cold War, Jews were accused by some conservative Americans of encouraging Communism. In fact, some people made the assumption that all Jews were Communists. This is similar thinking to the reasoning employed by the Nazi Party. After that, other accusations came along, such as controlling the media and diamond trade, and now being in charge of the US government.

Of course, all of these arguments and accusations are completely faceless, but what do you expect from racist Nazis??

[Moskitto]

During the Cold War, Jews were accused by some conservative Americans of encouraging Communism.

According the the "WCOTC," Communism is a Jewish mind control device.

However these are the people who say the holocaust didn't happen because the Jewish population rose between 1930 and 1950, yet they say that there is a white holocaust going on even though the white population (by their own figures) is rising.