The United States = Exporter of Freedom

[Capitalist]

By Anthony Boadle

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration has stepped up support for a growing dissident movement in Cuba in an effort to speed up a peaceful transition to democracy, the top U.S. diplomat on the island said on Thursday.

"The transition, in fact, is under way. I believe it started when (President) Fidel Castro (news - web sites) fainted in public," Vicki Huddleston, chief of the U.S. interests section in Havana, told reporters on a visit to Washington.

The momentary collapse of the 75-year-old leader in June as he gave a speech under blistering sun reminded Cubans that he was mortal and a "biological solution" was possible, she said.

When a minister cried "Long live Raul" to the crowd, referring to Castro's brother and army chief Raul Castro, Cubans realized a political succession was planned that involved more of the same, "Fidelismo without Fidel," she said.

"The people of Cuba don't want a succession, they want a transition. There is so much pent-up frustration," she said.

DISCONTENT AND HARASSMENT

Huddleston said Cuba's economic troubles have stirred up discontent among the Caribbean island's population of 11 million, particularly among the young who see no future.

Human rights activists have grown in numbers and become the voice of the Cuban people, persuading them to lose their fear, she said.

Dissidents have collected more than 10,000 signatures calling for an unprecedented referendum on political reform of Cuba's one-party state. Their Varela Project has been publicly backed by the U.S. government.

The plebiscite, which some observers believe Havana will never allow, would call for freedom of speech and assembly, the release of political prisoners and the opening of the country to private enterprise.

Huddleston said intimidation of Cubans associated with the Varela Project has grown, with 30 dissidents detained in the last two weeks and the reemergence of the government's "rapid response brigades," used in the past to disperse protests.

SELF-HELP BOOKS

The Bush administration has added the word "rapid" to the existing U.S. policy of encouraging peaceful democratic reforms in Cuba, Huddleston said.

The United States is trying to foster the process by increasing the flow of information to the Cuban people, mainly in books and magazine to independent libraries that have mushroomed across the island.

"We have been a lot more active in Cuba," she said.

"The information flow, outreach to the Cuban people, is ... not only going to prepare the Cuban people for a democratic, peaceful transition, it is going to speed it up," she said.

Information on the transition from Soviet rule in Eastern European nations and self-help books on how to set up and run a small business have been most popular with Cubans, she said.

Imagine that!

Cubans want the freedom of speech

Freedom of enterprise or CAPITALISM

Freedom to elect their leaders

[Capitalist]

The Cuban People want FREEDOM!

Freedom or Death! - Patrick Henry

Socialism or Death! - Fidel Castro (who obviously copied the quote from Patrick Henry)

The False Revolution = Fidel Castro Oppression = Che Guevara Revolution = Slavery for the Cuban People

History will Absolve Me - Adolf Hitler (1923 Putsch Trial)

History will Absolve Me - Fidel Castro (another quote copied by Fidel and made into his during the Moncada Barracks Trial)

Fidel Castro is not a president

Fidel Castro is not a dictator

leaders and dictators are supported by the people

Fidel Castro is a tyrant

tyrants are feared by the people

Or we the oppressors?

Or is it you - with your blind support for totalitarianism

[Kingnothing]

Your post of this article shows that you do not understand the nature of the cuban government. The cuban goverment is a direct democracy, not a represantitive one like the USA. You see, each neighboorhood, workplace and town has a small council. The members of this council are elected by the people of that area, the goverment encourgaes to elect the best worker or citizen but in no way intervenes in these elections and in no way forces communists to be elected. From the lower councils spring up prvince wide coucils and th like until a national congress is formed by these councils. So, orders come from the people and progress thorugh these council untill the reach the executive branch. This is democracy truly in action.

[Xvall]

Hah!
Patrick Henry Said -
"Give me Liberty or Death"...
At the time he owned 65 slaves.....
Sorry to Break it to you Capitalists...

- Drake Dracoli

[RedRevolutionary87]

its funny how an american can talk about freedom of speach, when he has none in amerkkka, your free to speak for the government but not against, freedom of speach is a fake freedom and its completely worthless, its not needed, if you want to change something you will no matter if its legal or not.

think about it!

[Imperial Power]

It appears no one can attack the content of Capitalist's posts. It is very important for all you socialists and communists to ignore his posts, and don't think about them FOR YOUR FANTASY TO REMAIN.

[Xvall]

Fine IP, I'll argue against his comments...
I will not respond to the first post, because it was ripped off of some sort of Pro-Right Wing CNN website.. I'll respond to things that he actually thinks of himself, like the second post...

"Freedom Or Death" - Patrick Henry

Like I said before. This man was a slave owner. And what does it matter if two people say similar things. Could it be possible that BOTH these people wanted freedom?

"History will Absolve me"

You know, just because people say the same things, doesn't mean they're alike. Hitler thought it was bad to desecrate the national flag. George Bush thinks the same thing. Does that mean the two have the same views. Probably, but that's because King George Bush II is nothing more than a racist bigot.

"Or is it you - with your blind support for totalitarianism"

We don't support Totalitarianism, I believe that is quite obvious. You can ask anyone here, and I'm sure they'll say that they love democracy. In fact, it is usually you and your fellow right-wing friends who support the assult of freedom via "drug raids" and "Patriot Acts".

- Drake Dracoli

[Moskitto]

Capitalist, please don't rewind your tape and repost you shit generalisations across the internet, If you are really deperate to call us Totalitarians <a href="http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?234> takes up less space in an HTML file than ...



The Cuban People want FREEDOM!</p>




Freedom or Death! - Patrick Henry</p>




Socialism or Death! - Fidel Castro (who obviously copied the quote from Patrick Henry)</p>




The False Revolution = Fidel Castro Oppression = Che Guevara Revolution = Slavery for the Cuban People</p>




History will Absolve Me - Adolf Hitler (1923 Putsch Trial)</p>




History will Absolve Me - Fidel Castro (another quote copied by Fidel and made into his during the Moncada Barracks Trial)</p>




Fidel Castro is not a president</p>




Fidel Castro is not a dictator</p>




leaders and dictators are supported by the people</p>




Fidel Castro is a tyrant</p>




tyrants are feared by the people</p>




Or we the oppressors?</p>




Or is it you - with your blind support for totalitarianism.</p>

Please think before posting.

[Capitalist]

Draco makes a good point.

I am not aware of Patrick Henry owning slaves.

If he did own slaves - his quote would make him a hypocrit.

However, this does not excuse Fidel Castro from being a hypocrit himself.

Fidel Castro's use of Direct Democracy is not democracy. The forums are all government controlled. The media, trials, election process, right to assembly is all government controlled (only the government has the right to bear arms in Cuba).

So the point is made

Patrick Henry owned 65 slaves.

& Fidel Castro owns about 11 million slaves.

[oconner]

I'm not saying Castro is a dictator, but if he was, is that a bad thing?
It certainly seems better than whatever Bush calls himself.

[Guest]

well oconnor it is a bad thing, and not close to being better than bush

[oconner]

A dictator is someone who doesn't hold elections. They don't have to be bad. castro has improved Cuba a lot.

[LASTMANSTANDING]

I think everyone should want freedom, capitalist, and if you are a cuban, as your posts indicate, then I think that your cause has noble aspects. It is true that everyone deserves freedom of press, speech, and religion, but the thing that you dont seem to understand is that the American government wants to bring their version of democracy to Cuba, not TRUE democracy. The american government has twisted and warped democracy to fit their needs, which is to ensure that they stay in power. The fundamentals of a democracy are a nation that governs itself. I dont think that the people who wrote americas constitution would be happy with how america has ended up. the beuracracy feeds us what they want us to hear, not the truth. And through big business and commercializition they have bred their version of america. A nation that is content to sit in front of a television every moment that they are not working to make rich people richer, and be sedated by a talking piece of furniture. I do not support a democracy that is controled by the puppets of big business, and I do not support this same democracy in their attempts to spread their poisons into cuba. I know that the idea of free enterprise might sound good to someone who has never had it but you might not see the loopholes that are created over time. What starts out as a man starting a business to support himself and his family,while providing a useful service to his community turns into a money hungry greed machine that that will do anything to create higher profits and more consumers. americas government likes where it is and where it is going. They have made the process of change within the system so complicated and wrapped in red tape that the idea of change within the system is fruitless.

"This country, with it's institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of ammending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."

-Abraham Lincoln

[Lardlad95]

All I have to say to capitalist is shut the fuck up with the communism=slavery bullshit. You don't know slavery. Real slavery is when you are stripped from your home, beaten, raped, degraded, beaten, then forced to work for a master, and you children have to do the same thing. And guess which country did that to millions of Africans? The US, a capitalist country.

[poncho]

Even the U.S. state department has admitted that Fidel Castro's tenure as leader of Cuba is due to his mass popularity. The vast majority of Cubans respect and support Fidel. Indeed, it is unlikely Cuba would still be an independent nation, free of foreign ownership and in control of its assets if not for Fidel. His government has moulded a country where equality reigns in health care, education and housing. The U.S. still hasn't been able to implement universal health care! It is not up to anyone except Cubans living in Cuba to determine when Fidel should leave office. None of us have the right to dictate the affairs of another country.

HANDS OFF CUBA TRAITOR

[LASTMANSTANDING]

can i get some feedback on what I said on my first post I just joined as a member of this site today. and this is my first attempt to express my ideas on this site. I'm very interested and want to get involved. So could i get some feedback?

[Malvinas Argentinas]

Capitalist,
please dont start debating against communism because you´ll loose

so just fuck off

[Malvinas Argentinas]

Capitalist,
please dont start debating against communism because you´ll loose

so just fuck off

[LASTMANSTANDING]

Hey, malvinas. I honestly don't know much about communism except for the one sided bullshit that the american government feeds me, which i know is not true, however I do know that I am fed up with the state of america as it is today. All these blind "patriots" that are plastering american flags in every window of their houses because they believe everything that Bushy Jr tells them. it makes me sick to my stomach.


(Edited by LASTMANSTANDING at 12:38 am on April 4, 2002)

[El Brujo]

But of course the U$ is the exporter of freedom!! They have supported such great freedom-loving people like Pinochet, Videla, Franco, Batista, Osama Bin-Laden, Hussein, Sharon, The Shah of Iran etc. *SIGH*

When are you cappies going to learn that saying that U$=free is an oxymoron. If your such great "freedom-lovers" then could you fucking explain to me why you supported fascist DICTATORS over DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED, socialist governments?!?!?! Until somebody answers me that its pretty obvious to me and to any other non-brainwashed person that it wasn't the "freedom" part they were worried about as much as the "money-grubbing, greed-based society" part.

[sabre]

it makes all of us sick.

[Xvall]

Calm down,
Let's not resort to blind insults..
That goes for everyone...

- Drake Dracoli

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from El Brujo on 10:22 pm on April 3, 2002
But of course the U$ is the exporter of freedom!! They have supported such great freedom-loving people like Pinochet, Videla, Franco, Batista, Osama Bin-Laden, Hussein, Sharon, The Shah of Iran etc. *SIGH*

When are you cappies going to learn that saying that U$=free is an oxymoron. If your such great "freedom-lovers" then could you fucking explain to me why you supported fascist DICTATORS over DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED, socialist governments?!?!?! Until somebody answers me that its pretty obvious to me and to any other non-brainwashed person that it wasn't the "freedom" part they were worried about as much as the "money-grubbing, greed-based society" part.


I agree one hundred percent. The US has supported people who have opressed other peoples freedom. The US has opressed so many people its astonishing people want to be part of this God forsaken nation

[oconner]

maybe capitalist should find a site of captialists, where there would be people to agree with him, instead of annoying people on this one.

[Anarcho]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 7:55 pm on April 3, 2002
All I have to say to capitalist is shut the fuck up with the communism=slavery bullshit. You don't know slavery. Real slavery is when you are stripped from your home, beaten, raped, degraded, beaten, then forced to work for a master, and you children have to do the same thing. And guess which country did that to millions of Africans? The US, a capitalist country.


Just wanted to state here that the vast majority of the slaves that were exported from the African coastal regions went to South America and the Caribean. Cuba, Brazil, Haiti, etc.

The US got some, of course, but nowhere near a majority.

[FuckChina]

El Brujo:
Here's my response to your post on the second page.I support capitalism because there is no better system that works.In theory,socialism is a good idea but it is impossible to create a working socialist system.Man is too easily corrupted by power and greed to have socialism be possible.That fact can also be argued as a reason to give capitalism the old heave ho.But capitalism isn't as easily corrupted as socialism and that is why I support it.Capitalism can never be perfect and no country will ever have full support of their government without the uses of capital punishment and brain washing in the school systems.So I won't argue that it's best for everyone,but for me it is.Now I await your stupid comments about me being a right winger.

[Nateddi]

Stupid Comment #1: Your cursing shows how much you don't know about anything. Your use of China must also imply that people here support China, which we dearly don't.

Stupid Comment #2: You are spewing out the exact same stuff as taught in school. "Socialism is a good idea but it doesn't work". This site is home to very intelligent leftists, they know more than you about this. Using a knee-jerk argument which you have been taught without actually studying anything (forgive me, but I am assuming) isn't going to be any fresh argument that leftists on this board had.

Stupid Comment #3: Your "human nature" argument against socialism is very tired. In my opinion, human nature evolves with society. Humans are the only species which have lost a basic instinct which all other species still possess: Survival of their own kind. Since the beggining of capitalism, less than 200 years ago, the expanding possibility of making huge profits turned humans into savages. In socialist countries, however, nobody grows up expecting to start their own business, or invest in the stock market, or make money by any greedy and un-working means. The failure of every socialist country has not been human nature. People did not beg their "communist oppressors" to start businesses and grow capital until the leaders caved in, its just not in their human nature.

Stupid Comment #4: "No better system works". Well capitalism is working I guess, with massive poverty at home and abroad as a result. You even admit yourself that capitalism works for you, perhaps that is why you think its the best system.

[Guest1]

Let me just say this, if greed is part of human nature, then so is murder and theft. It may be an instinct, but do we base are entire society on murder? No, cause we fight it, we don't make it into the center of life. Everyone has these things in them, but control is what separates intelligent life from brutes... at least I hope we are intelligent.

Now about the whole bullshit about how Communism doesn't work as good as capitalism in practice, bla bla bla... Nateddi did a good job of refuting that, but I'd just like to add that if you admit that it's within human nature to be too greedy for the good of mankind, why would the system that can only exist as long as people continue to canabalise each other work better? As long as greed is not magnified into the proportions it is in capitalism, it's not a society-crushing problem, it would be just like murder, you deal with it, but it ain't going to destroy you.

[LASTMANSTANDING]

the only reason this fuck china guy believes that capitalism is better is because he lives in a capitalist country that has taught him that. He is just vomiting back up all the rhetoric that he was programmed with. And his only arguement is capitalism=good, communism=bad, if his ideas about capitalism were based on any kind of individual thought, or backed up with any evidence whatsoever, it might be worth my time. But I type slow and I really dont want to waste any more of my time with his chatty cathy pull string arguements.

[peaccenicked]

"Long-Term Capital was seen as systemic," says Daniel Yergin, an economist and writer. "We were close to a panic. Enron is seen as just the way capitalism works. You have to have some losers."
Fuckchina does not know he is a loser advocating losing
to socialists who want to win the world and share it.
Losers say winning is impossible. All his arguments draw on the lie that socialism=stalinism.
What a loser? Stay a wage slave if you want, but you will never convince anyone on this site that we live in a 'free' capitalist countries. You will lose and lose and lose, because Private Property=Slavery and you are an arse licker.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Anarcho on 11:59 am on April 4, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 7:55 pm on April 3, 2002
All I have to say to capitalist is shut the fuck up with the communism=slavery bullshit. You don't know slavery. Real slavery is when you are stripped from your home, beaten, raped, degraded, beaten, then forced to work for a master, and you children have to do the same thing. And guess which country did that to millions of Africans? The US, a capitalist country.


Just wanted to state here that the vast majority of the slaves that were exported from the African coastal regions went to South America and the Caribean. Cuba, Brazil, Haiti, etc.

The US got some, of course, but nowhere near a majority.


Excuse me, but the US used slaves, thats all I said. Yes alot of slaves went to south america, but does that mean that what happened here doesn't count. At least in Hati they took over the island. No matter how many slaves the US had the US still profitted from slavery, end of disscussion

[Guest1]

Excuse me, but the US used slaves, thats all I said. Yes alot of slaves went to south america, but does that mean that what happened here doesn't count. At least in Hati they took over the island. No matter how many slaves the US had the US still profitted from slavery, end of disscussion

I love how these capitalists keep getting their arguments thrown back in their faces :)

[Lardlad95]

Sure do :)

[El Brujo]

Quote: from FuckChina on 12:56 am on April 5, 2002
El Brujo:
Here's my response to your post on the second page.I support capitalism because there is no better system that works.In theory,socialism is a good idea but it is impossible to create a working socialist system.Man is too easily corrupted by power and greed to have socialism be possible.That fact can also be argued as a reason to give capitalism the old heave ho.But capitalism isn't as easily corrupted as socialism and that is why I support it.Capitalism can never be perfect and no country will ever have full support of their government without the uses of capital punishment and brain washing in the school systems.So I won't argue that it's best for everyone,but for me it is.Now I await your stupid comments about me being a right winger.


Resorting to personal insults I see. Anyhow.

"I won't argue that it's best for everyone,but for me it is.": Thats the typical way of thinking of a capitalist, if it benefits THEM then they ignore the huge ugly face of the coin and become endlessly greedy at the expence of the lower classes.

"Man is too easily corrupted by power and greed to have socialism be possible.": And how is capitalism supposed to make that better? Its THROUGH socialism that we could end tyranny and greed.

"Capitalism can never be perfect": Of course, capitalism is NOWHERE NEAR perfect, thats why we want to eliminate it. Rich people are making millions of dollars while sitting their lazy asses on leather seats and doing nothing while workers are working endless hours, sometimes under completely fucked up conditions and barely making enougph to eat.

"and no country will ever have full support of their government without the uses of capital punishment and brain washing in the school systems.": No country will ever have full support of their government period. No matter where you go and what system is in power there will always be an opposition from within. However under socialism, there will be less of an un-brainwashed opposition because it benefits the masses not an "economic elite" that only a handfull of people belong to. And I see the EUROPEAN UNION doing just fine without capital punishment.

Finnally, I would like to add that your post in no way answered my question which was that if the U$ are such "freedom lovers" then why do they support dictatorships over democratically elected governments in other country's? I didn't ask why you support capitalism.

Now I await your stupid comments about me being a commie.

[Anarcho]

Quote: from Che y Marijuana on 8:10 pm on April 4, 2002

Excuse me, but the US used slaves, thats all I said. Yes alot of slaves went to south america, but does that mean that what happened here doesn't count. At least in Hati they took over the island. No matter how many slaves the US had the US still profitted from slavery, end of disscussion

I love how these capitalists keep getting their arguments thrown back in their faces :)


As I've said a few times, I don't know if I qualify as a 'capitalist' by your definition.

Also, I saw nothing thrown back in my face, since I wasn't trying to make an arguement at all. I was just stating that Slavery was pandemic to the entire Western Hemisphere.

You would be amazed at how many people only concentrate on the issue of Slavery in the US, and ignore it's effects in Cuba, Brazil, etc.

Try not to pat yourselves on the back for nothing. It looks bad.

[Lardlad95]

Excuse me but I've studied all slavery. I know how they tortured people worse in south America and Muslim countries, Having people buried up to there necks and ats ate them. having their genitles burned, being torn apart alive

But just because it was worse down there doesn't deminsh what happened here