Ageism

[BurnTheOliveTree]

To what extent can ageism be valid, if at all?

I mean, it's a fact that young children have less experience of life, isn't it? Should we treat an 8 year old's political opinions as seriously as a 25 year old's, say? Is it discrimination not to? Is it fair to make any distinction between the very young and the not?

And vice versa, it's a fact that very old people lose some of their faculties, to varying degrees. Same questions.

-Alex

[careyprice31]

well the old saying "children should be seen and not heard" is old conservative philosophy. I think children opinions have as much validity to them as adults, and maybe sometimes even more so, because children as of yet havent reuly had a chance to be corrupted yet by society.

My cousin Melinda faced ageism when she was a teenager. She had a pain in her leg for months, but her mother, my aunt, and some doctors kept insisiting that it was just 'growing pains' and they were common for teens. They said that because of her age.

Months later, after the pain hadnt gone away, they finally took her to a doc where they found out she had a benign tumor in her leg.

but thats medical ageism, not political opinions of children.

So yes, I think we should listen to the political opinions of children.

[Black Dagger]

To what extent can ageism be valid, if at all?I think this depends on how 'ageism' is defined.



I mean, it's a fact that young children have less experience of life, isn't it? Of course, yeah. But broadly speaking i don't think 'experience' should be valued in and of itself - one does not have to have personal experience with something to have a useful/meaningful/insightful opinion on it - it's just that people with personal experience have a different perspective on matters (sometimes this means they have derived knowledge that others lack - directly related to their experience). This doesn't make their view 'valid' nor does it invalidate the opinion of others who lack 'experience'.



Should we treat an 8 year old's political opinions as seriously as a 25 year old's, say? Is it discrimination not to? Is it fair to make any distinction between the very young and the not?I think we should distinguish/judge peoples opinions on the basis of their persuasiveness (perceived validity)- if an 8 year old can make a persuasive argument to me about some political matter then of course i will listen - it's just that given the benefit of intellectual development (inc. articulation, use of language etc.) life experience and so forth, a 25 year is more likely than an 8 year old to be able to express a coherent, persuasive argument.

[Vanguard1917]

Should we treat an 8 year old's political opinions as seriously as a 25 year old's, say?


Eight year-olds are generally not capable of formulating sophisticated political opinions or knowing what's in their best interests, whereas many 25 year-olds are capable of doing these things.

So the answer to your question: no, we certainly shouldn't.

[darkened day 92]

if they can do the same job with the same validty there is no basis for agesim. but of course that's another disadvantages of private economy. some people don't like people in their sixties in the work place even if they were very efficant. or they don't trust an 18 year old eventhough they are very wise. so i believe that except if a job needs experiance there is no basis wat so ever for ageism in a work place

[Dystisis]

I think in some cases people can actually see more clearly when their minds are not cluttered by everyone and their dog's interests.

Then again, there are other fields of thought that I think needs as much life experience as possible, if you know what I mean.

I am not exactly sure what you are asking here, though. Ageism in itself is also a rather loose word.

[jake williams]

I don't think we should discriminate on the basis of birthday. For several reasons (yes, experience - it does take a little while to learn about the world, though different people take different amounts of time, and yeah, language and articulation), it's going to happen that 8-year-olds' opinions will probably less well-formed than 25-year-olds' on average and in general, but even then we should certainly listen to them because they're people and they have needs and wants just like everyone else. The general principle is that you judge people on the basis of their individual characteristics and abilities, wherever at all possible.

[Raisa]

I think in a class based society children often reflect the class views of their parents, or the parents of someone who has it better, but in a class less society children wont do that becuase their purity wont be affected by economics and they will be being educated not how to maintain and be advocates of a dying system like parrots as they arenow , but will be being educated how to take the responsibility of citizenship in communism. And we should always listen to their opinions because that is what is going to reflect if we are doing our jobs good enough or not in teaching the youth to inherit society and keep it moving. They will be active participants doing ligther duties on community projects for shorter periods of time etc, we should listen to what they say in a democracy if they have an idea or concern. It is a democracy, right? It isnt like we are electing them to be god.

There is no reason why children cant come to meetings and make decisions among us, their iheriting this shit we are making. They are the reflection of our work.

[MarxSchmarx]

Discrimination is problematic because it imputes something that might "vaguely" be true for the category the person falls into, into a particular individual. It thereby dehumanizes the individual and we categorize them with a negative moral judgment.

For instance, it might be true that 55% of people from Paris are snooty assholes. But that doesn't mean that Bob, who happens to be from Paris, is a snooty asshole. But if I avoid Bob, or are mean to Bob, not known anything about him simply because I assume that being a Parisian he's a jerk, then that's discrimination. Now, I may have reason to believe Bob is an asshole. But it doesn't mean Bob MUST be an asshole. And it therefore means that, without knowing anything about Bob, treating him like an asshole just because other Parisians are is unfair and unjust to Bob. It treats Bob as a Parisian first and a human being second.

OK that was a long illustration...

Ditto with kids. jammoe is right that


it's going to happen that 8-year-olds' opinions will probably less well-formed than 25-year-olds' on average and in general.

And just because it's true that, in general, a 25 year old has better opinions than an 8 year old doesn't mean an 8 year old's opinion is necessarily worth less than a 25 year old's opinion.

The analogy from Bob from Paris holds.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Well, about about the other extreme of gerontocracy? I don't want to see any post-revolution society have geriatrics (some perhaps being even walking corpses) being the most prominent revolutionary figures.

[Maybe-not]

I place no value on the theory of Ageism. I disagree with the age of consent, and voting minimum age. Schools just need social and sexual education.

[Module]

I disagree with 'ageism' as a general rule, I suppose, but no I don't think we should consider the opinion of a 25 year old as equal to that of an 8 year old, not because of the numbers themselves, but of the metal development and, yes, the experience. An average 8 year old will find it harder to come to a logical conclusion about things in comparison to an average 25 year old. Of course there are exceptions, but numbers aside, it's the same as valuing the opinion of somebody you know to be intelligent and informed over somebody you know the be the opposite.

[jake williams]

but no I don't think we should consider the opinion of a 25 year old as equal to that of an 8 year old, not because of the numbers themselves, but of the metal development
I don't know dude, I've met some 8-year-olds that are pretty metal. You should try YouTube. :)

But really, if the whole point is that 25-year-olds happen to be older than 8-year-olds and we value the opinions of the more intelligent, at least within some frames of discourse, then it's not really a question about age discrimination except for sort of incidentally. It might be a different question to say whether or not 25-year-olds generally are better informed, but I think it's pretty clear they indeed are, even though an honest person is constantly open to legitimate debate, whether or not it arises.

[Luís Henrique]

Children are not small adults, nor even adults with less experience.

They should be allowed to be children, which is to play and have fun, instead of having to deal with politics or jobs.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Well, about about the other extreme of gerontocracy? I don't want to see any post-revolution society have geriatrics (some perhaps being even walking corpses) being the most prominent revolutionary figures.

That's ageist. What do you have against walking corpses? I feel personally offended...:crying: not that I walk too much, mind you.

Luís "Tutankamon" Henrique

[anarchy666]

Ageism has always angered me, ever since elemetary school. I just can't stand it when adults are ageist. It makes me want to go crazy. It has been just as bad a sexism and racism throughout the years and seems to be a more pressing issue in some countries. 18 year olds should be able to have relations with 16 year olds at least i think. Some people would call that sick, but what i think is sick is when 70 year olds are married to 20 year olds. Older children and teenagers should be able to have much more power and respect in society.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Stereotyping is unavoidable, especially in context of a differences like age where the overwhelming majority of one bracket does fit into a snug definition. However, I uphold the principle that every person should be treated as an individual and not a collective. There are certainly 18 year-olds out there who can hold just as convincing of an argument as someone who is twice their age. If an 11-year old can persuade me socialism is not the answer (which maybe some can), he's got my ear - and vote! :D

[Luís Henrique]

Ageism has always angered me

i think is sick is when 70 year olds are married to 20 year olds.

Obviously, ageism has only angered you when you were in the taking side. When you are in the giving end, you find it perfectly natural.

Luís Henrique

[Unicorn]

To what extent can ageism be valid, if at all?
Many 17-year-old people have an older mental age than a typical 18-year-old person. Yet 18-year-old people are allowed to vote etc. but 17-year-olds are considered minors. I find this perfectly acceptable.

[Awful Reality]

The sorry fact is that the 8 year old probably isn't able enough to have a valid political opinion, not as much as a 25 year old. However, that's a problem of out capitalist educational system, and something we as socialists should fix.

As long as the 8 year old can back up his opinion intellectually, yes.

There's nothing much about an 8 year old that makes him less "smart" or "capable" as a 25 year old- only societal norms, restrictions, and conditions.