Why Communism?

[Olen W]

Having grown up in the US as the only child of a die-hard right-wing family I have been spoon-fed pro-capitalist, anti-communist views for as long as I can remember. Being a normal child and wanting to fit in, I went along with the idea that capitalism was good and socialism was inherently evil. Recently, however, I began to realize that not everything I had been told was true. After dropping out of the institution of brainwashing known as college to pursue a REAL education on my own, I began reading many things that had been kept out of the school libraries. Among these was a brief biography of Che Guevara. After reading it I was fascinated by his life and writings so I began reading everything I could find by him or about his life, teachings, and eventual de facto assassination by the CIA. In the process my eyes and mind were opened to the fact that I had been lied to and pressured into beliefs that were not truly my own.
It is at this stage that I come to you. Having rejected the long-held notions that Communism is inherently evil, and that capitalism is the only right way, I am asking you the question: why Communism? I ask not to challenge any of you or your beliefs, but, rather, to learn more about it to fill the gap left by two decades of now discarded lies. I am open to anything you might have to say.

-Olen

[Nateddi]

Olen,

America does not hate communism because of it having a history of dictatorships. America does not want to protect your from a bad government. America actually supports a vast number of third-world dictatorships which bring profit to American corporations. The reason why communism is hated is because it goes completely against the American way of capital accumilation for profit. Companies can't expand to the world when the world is communist. Companies may have more boycotts as people at home consider communism. The anticommunist propaganda is simply to protect the US corporate interests.

Apparently you don't know why we don't like capitalism. Capitalism controls every aspect of our society, with only one purpouse: to make money. 90% of Nike's workforce is Indonesian, a large amount are teenage girls who instead of getting educated work in a Nike sweatshop for $0.40/hour. Most companies, be it clothing or electronic parts make their products overseas in the third world paying workers very little to make profit. This profit is used to conquer markets foreign to the corporation (ie: Nike going after the whole clothign market, not just shoes), wasting money on competing celebrity ads with other companies, fattening the pockets of the execs in the company, and other forms of meaningless spending. The dictators of third world countries do not let the workers unionize, and the minimum wage is melee (if any).
At home, companies which cannot globalize, such as power companies, have other means of making money. They pay the US minimum wage (or somethign close to it to compete with other exploitative employers), these workers most times do not get health insurance (an american phenomenon) and often live below (or near) the poverty line; these workers are slaves, only instead of the company owning them, they rent them and provide just enough money to get a decent shelter and not starve. They often break the already soft environmental laws for disposal of waste, thus polluting our air and water. Why? To save some money and compete more fierce, to buy out the smaller energy company in the neighbouring county.

This is just some of the things on capitalism and why we dislike it. I do not go around calling myself a communist, mostly because of the reasons you mensioned. I am more of a socialist who supports marxist economic ideas. If you need to know more about communism, ask a different member who is a full communist. This board is a home to many leftists, not necesserily communists.

[FtWfTn]

Wow I do believe you said it all. . .all I was going to say was that Not veryone on the sites a communist. . .I'm a Socialist but believe in some marxist views and such. . Iknow i'm just repeating what nateddi said but he said it all

[Imperial Power]

Damn it to Hell! I just had a 3 paragraph response and it was deleted. I will write later.

[Olen W]

NOTE: I am new to this forum so I apologize if this is a replay of another, previous thread.

I see what you're saying about capitalism being used as a shield by companies bent on exploiting the masses. That's one of several reasons I don't buy Nike, GAP, or other big brand items whenever I can avoid it.
What sorts of controls would you propose to prevent these sorts of abuses. I have read the Communist Manifesto and other Marxist writings so there is no need for a general rehashing of socialist thought. I know what Marx, Lenin, and Guevara thought; I'd really like to know what you all think.

-Olen

[Xvall]

Well Olen,
Like you, even though I am currently only fourteen, I was raised to believe that communism is bad because 'the government said so'. But instead of going into a long string of ranting about how much I believe the government exploits it's own people. I will instead tell you my general beliefs on communism.

I believe that everyone, not only in the country, but as a whole of the world, should live together in peace, and focus on helping each other rather than abusing each other's work force so that the money is concentrated in the hands of a few. I have also read most of Marx's and some of Lenin's works, and believe that although they are powerful and insightful works of literature, they should not be taken too extremely. The one thing that I think we could do without is a dictatorship, and I'm sure, that the 'Dictatorship of the Proletariot' meant nothing more than to have the authoriy and power in the hands of the common people.

- Drake Dracoli

[Sir Galahad]

I just deleted my post, oops. OK, I had a lot of emotion and and things flying around in my post so I will try and ercapture that.
OK, Olen, you and I are alike, disenheartened with the American System. So this is my call to you and I and to all that are here:
Educate the ones who ask for it, and educate the people you meet, educate them for your side, tell them why you believe right or left, I think this is what olen is asking, Educate us, give us opinions, tell us why communism is better than capitalism. Tell us how everyoone will be equal, then we will go out and tell others, who knows, maybe 15 years from now, communism will be around again in force, it all starts with teaching others, when you teach you end up teaching yourself, so you may realize in the middle of post or a comversation why communism failed or why its better or vica versa, So educate us,

Spence

[Revolution]

Hello Comrades. Is that a word that we should take lightly? What does that mean?....Before I get started on my geo-political tirade, I would like to compliment all of the people who were honest in their true political beliefs. I can only hope that you all do so in public and when asked in front of others, in situations that might not be deemed as the "popular" opinion.

I myself am not a Communist. I can align myself with no particular party, although I consider myself very far to the left....pretty much a Socialist. The reason for this is I feel we should put ethics before politics...something this country hasn't ever done. You must always choose this route, as the developmental stages of Che's life did in Guatemala and in his trips around Latin America. We all admire him, but why? It was because Che was Che. He felt a strong obsession with helping the oppressed and fighting against imperialism and colonialism. You can be that if he would've been able to survive Bolivia, he would've set out to free Puerto Rico.

Now, onto Communism and Capitalism. The United States makes too much money off of third-world countries...end of story. Our investments render a heavy decision factor on who to attack and whose goverment to overthrow. The government NEEDS to find an enemy, to justify the slaughtering of another culture...and Communism is that. Have you ever seen us attack a country that did not have people of non-white origin? It's imperialism and racist intervention at its finest. Look at Afghanistan. We have killed more innocent civilians than both of our Twin Towers combined. I'd like to make it very clear that terrorism shouldn't be tolerated at all. To me they are religious zealots, who can't stand someone else not believing what they do. It's bullshit, another reason why I do not believe in religion.

I no longer support Nike as well. Especially after Michael Jordan, (former sports hero) said he was going to "investigate" the rumors of sweatshops...and didn't. Shame on him. Selling out for money, another trait that pure Republican, and even Democratic Capitalism breeds. I cannot support diamonds either, reason being of course that these pathetic, lower than bacterial infection-companies, pay these warlords to slaughter people so they can make somewhere around a 3,000% profit off of a piece of coal.

Communism is not bad. America is brainwashed into believing this because we don't have the balls to actually have some sort of Socialistic medical plan for those who aren't as fortunate as us. We shun our problems...ever notice that? We'll spend millions on dumb-ass commercials, but not a penny to set up medicine in a Socialistic-sense. Look at how long it took us to fix Reagonomics...I'm sure some right-winger right now will try to defend that, but I've yet to be defeated in a debate about it. I study economics, and the gap that was created by the "trickle down theory" between poor and rich was so incredulous it still has negative effects.

Please respond and don't be scared to give Socialism a chance. I do believe that if a person wants to open up a business and work hard they should be allowed to....just not in a way that completely exploits and takes advantage of others.

Patria o Muerte

[Olen W]

Thank you all for your input. Although I am still very much in transition, I would have to say that I am leaning more and more towards democratic socialism. I am leaning away from American capitalism as I find more and more hypocrisy and more abuses and exploitations, mostly abroad, but also here in the US. It's just not right the way we (that is to say, the US government) have basically done whatever was in our own short-term best interests without the slightest thought to the cost in blood, sweat, and tears of those in less prosperous parts of the world. Truly shameful.

-Olen

(Edited by Olen W at 1:26 am on Mar. 29, 2002)

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from Imperial Power on 7:55 pm on Mar. 28, 2002
Damn it to Hell! I just had a 3 paragraph response and it was deleted. I will write later.


HAHAHAHAHAHA! You jackass!

[Anarcho]

Sort of a digression, for a moment.

We all know of the evils of American big business in the Third World, and of "slave-like" conditions of the american local business.

What is the group take on such chains as In-n-Out, who often pay their employee's considerably more than the local minimum? I'm sure there are others there, the only one I know of right now is In-n-Out.

[Thine Stalin]

Europe is almost into that democratic socialist state that you would want, I lean away from socialism myself..

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from Thine Stalin on 8:05 pm on Mar. 29, 2002
Europe is almost into that democratic socialist state that you would want, I lean away from socialism myself..


What the hell? You're still here Thine Stalin? Get the fuck out! Nobody wants you here, you Stalinist swine!

[Nateddi]

Calm down mikey

I don't mind stalinists here although I am not a stalinist.

[Imperial Power]

Olen first you must learn to see both sides of the story. At first glance much of this socialist/communist ideology seems doable. Then you watch some of the propaganda and say to yourself "O my how awful, social revolution is the key!" I am right? Myself and others have discussed the inherent weaknesses that go along with the system. The biggest problem is likely corruption. Secondly the system does not work economically, so that in 10 years the people are all poor and oppresed. Third socialism takes away civil liberties. There are many other problems to numerous to list. T By no means am I for child labor, or sweat shops. GO ahead and boycott the corporations,m if you all do a good enough job competitors will drive them out of business that only use union labor. You see social revolution is not needed for a better world.

[Guest]

In ideal circumstances, we could all live as anarchists, free from the oppression of any state. Socialists as well as capitalists speak out against anarchism and call it "chaos and barbarism," but that is simply because so many of them want to take control over the masses while seeming righteous. Capitalists claim that you have the right and freedom to live a comfortable and pleasant life, but as long as you are enslaved by the wage system, you have no "oppurtunity" or "means" to live such a life. Socialists (and any kind of socialist be it the Marxists, National Socialists, Social Democrats, or Fabian Socialists) say that by giving power to the workers, you ensure the peace and prosperity of all people. But by having a dictatorship of the proletariat, you allow the few to be corrupted. Of Course, the same socialists that devote themselves to Marxist theory forget that Marx himself believed that socialism was only a intermediate period before the perfection of Anarchism. By abolishing the state, in all its entirety, all people can be truly free.

[Guest]

I don't even know where to start with this. It is hard to believe that in todays world a site like this would even exist outside of a communist country, but this is America, a free country, so I guess I have as much of a right to my opinion as you have to yours.

It must be obvious by now that I do not agree with the ideas promoted here, but I have good reasons. The few of you asking about communism vs. capitalism may want to read on.

I grew up and was educated (brainwashed) in communist Poland prior to my departure for the US in 1987, just few years before the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe.

Just to set the record straight there was no equality, no civil liberties, no freedom of speech. The consitutional rights were useless and government corrupt. The economy was in disarray with no future for young people to speak of.

Education was free and medicine was socialized but in order to get any decent treatment one had to bribe the doctors and /or officials.

Some of you complain the capitalism is all about the money, but so was communism. The communist elite was getting rich shafting the masses. It wasn't to my great surprise when the ex-communists were able to purchase "small dollar" items like shipyards, steel plants and coal mines when the post communist government started to privitize the industrial sector. They were the only ones with money, and lots of it.

Some of you don't like the giant corporations created by capitalism. Tough. At least you have a choice of what to buy. In communist Poland evything was manufactured by government owned plants. Product quality was pathetic, we didn't have an option to buy something else or anybody to complain to. Also it was "unadvisible" to go around asking questions about the treatment or safety of workers at these plants.

I am glad that communism collapsed in Eastern Europe and I hope it will fade away in the few remaining countries. It is an evil, oppresive system that has never created anything worth while. The computer you use to read this message, the phone line (or whatever else) you use to access this forum, the internet, etc would never come around without the competitive technological development inspired by capitalism.

And, have any of you ever considered that $0.40 an hour cold actually be a decent wage in Indonesia. I am not saying it is, because I just don't know but around 1980 an average monthly salary in Poland was equivalent to $40 (yes, I said monthly) and we all managed to survive and grow strong enough to get rid of the communist party and the 500,000 Russian troops that supported it.

And finally, as I stated in the first paragraph of this message, this is a free country so all of you communist/socialism lovers have the right to complain about capitalsm, have the right to criticize the government, have the right to organize and discuss your ideas in this forum and also have the right to leave this country if you wish. I had none of these rights when I lived in Poland, so good luck, I hear the weather in nice in Cuba but I think I will stay here in Arizona and enjoy everything I have gained (and I don't mean $$$) since I have moved here.

[Anarcho]

I'm very interested in seeing a rebuttal on this one.