Leopold II

[Moskitto]

http://www.gendercide.org/images/pics/leopold.jpg

I order to persue his lust for money and real estate King Leopold controlled the Rubber and Ivory trade in his nice big plantation called "Belgian Congo." In doing so King Leopold became the Capitalist Stalin.

The Result, The most brutal Genocide of the 19th century which went on into the 20th century until Leopold sold the country in 1908.

Absolute terror was the order of the day. Leopolds authorities used tactics such as kidnapping the communities women and holding them as hostages until enough rubber ws produced to release them. If you were a male villager resisting would mean the death of your wife. Many died anyway being taken away for prostitution or rape.

At least 10 million people died, Maybe as many as 20 million. But this genocide is forgotten by everyone. There was outcry when Cromsky underestimated the scale of the Asian counterpart of Leopold, the Khmer Rouge Genocide. However there was nothing wrong with Rummel making a low estimate for this atrocity. Why is this genocide forgotten? because it proves how bad self interest is.

[pastradamus]

Hey back off joe!

the guy was a political genius! says so in my history book.
He was the only working class dictator in russia.

[Moskitto]

I notice that none of the capitalists remember this genocide that was Congo free state, Don't try and deny the capitalist nature of Leopold, This is the absolute terror that capitalism creates. This was one of the times the world came closest to true capitalism, over 10 million died.

[Capitalist]

Capitalism involved with Terrorism.

Was this man a Capitalist?

or a Tyrant?

or both?

The Russian Mafia, Sweat Shops, Slavery - all are examples of Capitalism using tactics of Terrorism to enforce profit.

Freedom to do good or bad

Capitalism to do good or bad

is Freedom evil?

is Capitalism evil?

or is it really Terrorism that is the evil partner?

[Guest]

saying "dont try to deny the capitalist nature of leopold" would beget an equally compelling statement, "dont try to deny the Marxist/communist/socialist nature of Stalin,"

Ofcourse there's been many a thread here where you've exhausted your breath saying stalin was not a communist, with hardly any substantiation. Well then I will say the same Leopold was not a capitalist.
I at least have the corroboration of historical thruth which has managed to define capitalism as a truly progressive system that has raised standards of living where ever it has graced a people. I at least have an empirical definition of capitalism.
On the other hand when you try to deny the communist nature of stalin, you have no historical truth or empirical evidence to support you, only theoretical interpretation, which I might as well call revisionism, of what marxism was supposed to be.

[Moskitto]

Yes, Leopold was a capitalist.

He paid his workers (The Soldiers, Like every mass murderer he did not see his victims as human.)

He ran the colony to make money for himself.

He did not provide social security to those he ruled

He limited democracy

There was competition from other colonies

Those he ruled signed over their land and people legally

And the comparison with terrorism is inaccurate since this man didn't go around blowing up houses of the enemy.

[Guest]

moskitto none of the actions you listed can be put together to form a definitinion of capitalism. They don't provide evidence that leopold was a capitalist, and anyone will tell you that mercantilist systems that governed colonial relationships are not capitalist.

[Moskitto]

If capitalism isn't about making money then what is it about? Leopold made lots of money.

[Guest]

increasing the general surplus, the total profit, not the rate of profit. which is what leopold did.

[Moskitto]

Upon the request of Drake Dracoli, I have sent this post upwards.

If you want to live an evil life, you can meet this man in hell. Lothar Von Trotha was also pretty nasty and these 2 are probably conversing in hell. Seeing that image makes me more of a [British] Republican.

[Supermodel]

Thanks for info this is all news to me.

I'll be looking for more info on this weirdo. Sounds more like racism than capitalism.

More like imperialism than capitalism.

I still think he had to have had a lot of "willing executioners" - i.e. followers to pursue this policy. A forerunner of Hitler perhaps?

[Mazdak]

Hey, isn't imperialism a part of capitalism?? and This Leopold couldnt have been anything less than both. Imperialist is the highest stage of capitalism

And why criticize this guy. Why not talk about the armenian genocide???

Hey, if you want a reallly neat ruler who got things done, why not check out Vlad the Impaler??

[Moskitto]

The thing is, while the Armenian genocide wasn't the nicests of things that people have done to each other. This guy was a bit more nasty than Envar Pusha although no one talks about him. Lothar Von Trotha who did the the other Genocide in Namibia also wasn't too nice.

But on the Armenian genocide, I've seen absolute total crap on the internet of websites denying the Armenian genocide. Some of the things some of these pages say is totally proposterous. They aren't quite as bad as neo-nazis because they actually attempt to string together facts to reinforce their ideas, rather than simply dismissing everything as "propaganda." But they do things like list all the people murdered by Armenians since 1920 and say it's how young Armenians have been duped into believing a lie. Then they say the Armenians were terrorists unlike the Jews and list some examples of Armenian actions. However there are times when the Jews fought the Nazis as well. There were massacres of Armenian before 1915.

I find it strange that excusing the Holocaust is an absolute no-no yet websites like this are tolerated as studying the other side of the story. Not that denying the Holocaust should be tolerated, but the Herero, Armenian, Cambodian, Guatamalan, Bosnian and Rewandan genocides are all genocides as well yet get virtually zero coverage.

[Mazdak]

EXACTLY!!! All we ever hear aobut is the holocaust. what about these acts of atrocity. Whatabout Wounded Knee Massacre and Nathan Forrests murders of black prisoners during the US civil war??? Everything has to do wiht the holocaust

[Xvall]

Mazdak, The Nationalist not only supports the atrocities commited by their own side, but often never hears about them. Wounded Knee was an atrocity commited by the American government, therefore, few Americans know about it.

[Mazdak]

Yes, but then try telling them.. Nothing you get absolutely nothing from them

They simply say it happened a long time ago.
Hey, titanic sunk only (i think ) 12 years later, yet we still hear about the tragedy of that ship