Need some help ("social-proletocratic" organization)

[Die Neue Zeit]

Thanks to an insightful post by Alan Maki (an anti-revisionist within the CPUSA), this is basically a synthesis of "playful" threads and out-of-board messages of mine, since I've decided that enough "shit-chat" has been made:

Anybody in Oregon, Washington state, or BC? (http://www.revleft.com/vb/anybody-oregon-washington-t71542/index.html)
Is the term "communist" beyond saving (at the moment)? (http://www.revleft.com/vb/term-communist-beyond-t71765/index.html)
Russian Proletarism (http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?t=32726&sid=c95352ef4e0190c7b1f5729d78fd5f5c
)
Rescuing Lenin from the Leninists (http://www.revleft.com/vb/rescuing-lenin-leninists-t70028/index.html)
Merge Marxism with the workers' movement! (http://www.revleft.com/vb/merge-marxism-workers-t70141/index.html)
United social labor: name for the pre-party mass organization??? (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pof-300/message/1911)

Enough "shit-chat" has been made especially because, here in Canada, comrades here aren't as lucky with their choice of leftist organizations - Communist Party of Canada, RNK's Maoist RCP-PCR, Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist), and various Canadian Trotskyist organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Trotskyist_organizations_of_Canada) - as their American counterparts (CPUSA, the cultish RCPUSA, chegitz's SPUSA, the DSA, and various US Trotskyist organizations and/or sects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Trotskyist_organizations_of_the_United_St ates))... ironically. [And don't get me started with the ineffective "Socialist Caucus" within the NDP, a mere shadow of the DSA.]

In addition, I have agitated in recent days outside of this board for greater awareness of the word "proletocracy" (rule by the working class) Regardless of whether this workers-only organization I want to help build is explicitly "social-proletocratic" (one tendency) or for "united social labour" (multi-tendency) but with an explicitly "social-proletocratic" tendency, the pre-revolutionary strategy for this workers' organization is very simple, and goes all the way back to the words of "pre-renegade" Kautsky: the revolutionary merger of Marxism and the workers' movement.



Bottom line: any suggestions for building that organization?

[RNK]

Don't compare the RCP-PCR with the RCP-USA! :glare:

Good luck, I guess...? I'm not even sure what you're getting at.. the creation of a new organization?

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ I wasn't implying such comparison at all. :confused:

[And I read your criticisms of RCPUSA in your user group.]

As for your second question, yes I am proposing the creation of such, and I need advice.

[RNK]

I've seen too many people or small groups of people attempt to kick-start their own little movement and end in failure to advise that be your course of action... surely, one of the organizations native to Canada would atleast be palpable to your ideas, and through them you could develop? Perhaps start a little chapter of the CPC(ML) in your locale and mobilize within them?

Of course, its hard to justify joining a Communist Party when one of your stated goals is the eradication of the use of the word Communist. But it may be harder justifying (from a practical point of view) trying to single-handedly create a new organization.

Physical support is the most important aspect of organization. For all the online support you may find, what comes down to it is forming a physical base of determined activists.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ I don't get it: you're advocating that I "enter" a political party which you yourself aren't a member of? [You're a member of RCP-PCR, while the CPC-ML is a Hoxhaist organization.]

Personally, my initial preference was to convince non-sectarian Marxists (yes, including Stalinists) to overcome their theoretical/historical shortcomings and "revolutionarily" bandy together under my simple proposal (there are historical factors but no "deep theory" associated with it, unless you count my repetitive emphasis on Kautsky's merger formula). If I convinced enough of them, they would become revolutionary Marxist "entry-ists" within their existing organizations ( :D ) before either leaving or taking over. That would've made my joining much easier.

[RNK]

Okay, then join the RCP-PCR! :P

But to be really, brutally honest, you really don't have much of a chance going it alone. Hell, even organizations which have been established for years don't stand much of a chance in Canada's political environment. The necessities of launching a movement, especially one like yours which is quite grand, are absolutely staggering; even the RCP-PCR, which was started by several dozens of people nearly 8 years ago, is rather limited to southern Quebec because it is so damned hard struggling against the thick mud of revolutionary politics in Canada -- and they even have the advantage of starting in Quebec (which I maintain as the most potentially revolutionary area in Canada - ask why!). Not to demotivate you -- I'd really like to see you manage some success, as I have a lot of respect for you, your ideas seem very clear-cut and logical, if a bit idealist ( ;) ). I would be absolutely delighted if you became a supporter of the RCP-PCR and contributed to its theoretical development -- even if you are not a "Marxist-Leninist-Maoist", I kind of have idealist hopes myself, and would like to see as many people as possible co-operate and communicate in the same general direction (I'm still hoping for the day the RCP-PCR forms an alliance with less radical groups to form political coalitions).

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ In spite of that small "cheap-shot" remark ( ;) ), given your age (which I saw in conjunction with that of Alan Maki), perhaps I can establish some form of communication with your group.

Does your group practice "entry-ism" into the Socialist Caucus?


I would be absolutely delighted if you became a supporter of the RCP-PCR and contributed to its theoretical development -- even if you are not a "Marxist-Leninist-Maoist", I kind of have idealist hopes myself, and would like to see as many people as possible co-operate and communicate in the same general direction (I'm still hoping for the day the RCP-PCR forms an alliance with less radical groups to form political coalitions).

By "supporter," do you mean "militant/member" or merely "sympathizer" in the revolutionary Marxist sense (Lenin's One Step Forward). Ben Seattle has established contact with Mike Ely in the USA (and you and I know the RCPUSA's "problems"), so perhaps I can do the same with your group and CyM's Trotskyist group.

[RNK]

No, the RCP-PCR doesn't practice entryism (that I know of... they could, but it's incredibly unlikely). The RCP's stance on electoral politics is that in a country like Canada, the whole electoral process is monopolize by the ruling class as a system designed for perpetuating the ruling class' hegemony over society (though this is not a universal declaration; the Maoists in Nepal have shown that where practical, an electoral political strategy can be adopted and its entirely possible that at some point in the future if Canada's own political landscape became a more realistic forum for change that it's views might change, but that would necessitate incredible change, which one might argue is the RCP's goal to begin with).

I personally support the socialist caucus even though I feel they're essentially wasting their time and diverting essential resources and effort from more revolutionary endeavours which need to be carried out before entryism can become viable as a tactic. I have some respect for the CPC(ML) as I understand they're active in the union scene as well as various social movements in Ontario (ie Ontario Coalition Against Poverty). I don't really support or have respect for the CPC as I've not seen any indication that they have any actual connections or insight into the working class.

By supporter I suppose I mean "whatever kind of role you want to play" -- supportive outsider, active participant in the RCP's activities (<-- here I am), whichever. Though, I don't know what if any presence the RCP has out there, so there may not be any events or demonstrations for you to participate in.

And the RCP afaik is already getting involved with CyM's IMT Trots, via the Anti-Imperialist Revolutionary Campaign (http://revolutionseulesolution.org/index.php?section=14) (which I'm delighted about). I can't wait for this upcoming May Day -- I think I've heard the RCP-PCR and some others are going to be holding a rally seperate from the usual union rallies... maybe not.. actually, I have no idea. But either way, with the increase in cooperation its sure to be a good showing.