How will Farc leader's death affect Colombia's conflict?

[RSS News]

A senior commander of Colombian rebel group, the Farc, has been killed in combat. Will this reshape the civil war?

(Feed provided by BBC News | Have your Say (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/2/hi/talking_point/default.stm))

[Dros]

no

I'm sorry that FARC leader died though.

[spartan]

I thought that it was the second in command who died and not the leader?

Either way this could potentially backfire on Colombia as people will still have the memory of Chavez getting those two sets of hostages released (A month and a week ago respectively), which would lead people to thinking why do this then when they were cooperating?

[Sankofa]

The Colombian Government has always back stabbed FARC during peace negotiations, if I'm remembering correctly.

I don't think his death will effect the efforts of our comrades in Colombia.

They've been fighting for 40+ years and even Washinton pouring 3 billion dollars into the Colombian Army via Plan Colombia hasn't managed to hinder FARC's progress significantly, so one man won't change anything.

Oh yeah; ¡Viva Las FARC-EP!

[Asoka89]

They've commited crimes, but nothing compared to the state-terror of the Columbian army and their paramilitaries.

They fight for the dream of a better society, one not run by oligarchs and influenced by imperialists. I think they had done a bad job at getting mass support especially in recent years, the people are against them, but they are still Marxists and they are still the best trained and best organized marxist revolutionary group in the world today.

I send my solidarity to my dead comrade, that may of had different means of achieving change, but was committed and devoted his life to building a more just world

[commie man]

no

I'm sorry that FARC leader died though.

sorry comrade, but the farc arent revolutionary forces, in fact they r just criminals who kills civilians and sell drugs


they have an army of 16000 soliders if they wanted to they could do a coup d’état, but they dont want to, they just want money, money from drugs kiddnapings and vacunas


what there is in colombia is not a civil war, cuz in a civil war there r political blocks who wants to seize or keep the power


what there is in colombia is a gangs war

[chebol]

"Commie man", you are neither a commie, nor, form your comment, are you a man. You resemble more than anything a jelly fish, with no spine, or other saving features.
Go learn about WHY the FARC exists before spoutng garbage...

For everyone else, some coverage of the Reyes incident, and fall-out.
http://www.eltiempo.com/
http://www.eltiempo.com/multimedia/galerias/ralreyesmuerto/GALERIAFOTOS-WEB-PLANTILLA_GALERIAFOTOS-3981892.html
http://ecuador-rising.blogspot.com/2008/03/ecuador-recalls-ambassador-to-colombia.html
http://www.presidencia.gov.ec/noticias.asp?noid=12862
http://ecuador-rising.blogspot.com/2008/03/ecuadorian-government-protests.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/americasCrisis/idUSN01269526
http://communistwombat.blogspot.com/2008/03/farc-leader-raul-reyes-assassinated-by.html

[Herman]

What worries me the most is the hostage rescuing process. Now the FARC will have a good excuse not to continue with that operation.

[Guerrilla22]

What worries me the most is the hostage rescuing process. Now the FARC will have a good excuse not to continue with that operation.

Or the Colombian government is trying to derail the negociations because they don't want chavez (whom they hate with a passion) to look good by successfully negociating the release of numerous hostages.

[spartan]

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world/international-colombia-rebel-chavez.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Chavez warns of war if Colombia strikes Venezuela!

I heard about this on another forum and they have also added that Chavez has shut down the Venezuelan embassy in Colombia (Or it might have been the Colombian embassay in Venezuela) and has moved his forces to the Colombian border!

His reasoning is that Colombia is a threat to Venezuela's sovereign territory seeing how it recently made a military incursion into Ecuador to kill a top commander of FARC (Something that was critiscised by Ecuadorian President Correa).

Anyway this forum is a military related forum and they all seem to think that Venezuela's military has air and ground superiority over Colombia:)

[KurtFF8]

I'm sorry that FARC leader died though.

Why? The FARC from everything I understand is nothing more than a drug organization. They aren't really a revolutionary group anymore.

[spartan]

Why? The FARC from everything I understand is nothing more than a drug organization. They aren't really a revolutionary group anymore.

That is what the pro-US government of Colombia wants you to believe.

[Dominicana_1965]

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world/international-colombia-rebel-chavez.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Chavez warns of war if Colombia strikes Venezuela!

I heard about this on another forum and they have also added that Chavez has shut down the Venezuelan embassy in Colombia (Or it might have been the Colombian embassay in Venezuela) and has moved his forces to the Colombian border!

His reasoning is that Colombia is a threat to Venezuela's sovereign territory seeing how it recently made a military incursion into Ecuador to kill a top commander of FARC (Something that was critiscised by Ecuadorian President Correa).

Anyway this forum is a military related forum and they all seem to think that Venezuela's military has air and ground superiority over Colombia:)

The right-wing paramilitaries (AUC) have also entered Venezuelan territory recently. The captures (of the AUC) have been increasing ever since, they have been trying to bribe community leaders (PSUV delegates, communal councils), acting as "safe-guards" for the food speculation and hoarding among other acts of sabotage.

[RNK]

Yes, Chavez has ordered 10 battalions of troops from the Venezuelan army mobilized on the border with Colombia. I for one am pleased, and I hope the situation develops progressively. It would be nice if increased support from Venezuela allowed the FARC to break free of its perpetual lack of progress.

[Dimentio]

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/chavez-closes-venezuelan-embassy-colombia

It seems like a very tense situation.

[Wanted Man]

Why? The FARC from everything I understand is nothing more than a drug organization. They aren't really a revolutionary group anymore.
Here we see the consequence of being "ambivalent" towards groups that do not have enough ideological "purity". Let's see: the army of the repressive Colombian state launches an incursion into another country's territory, to murder the #2 of a left-wing group in his sleep. And you think there's nothing wrong with that? :blink:

It reminds me of a few weeks ago, when you said that you wouldn't say anything about the Colombian embassy-organized anti-FARC protests, because the FARC are bad as well. Are those blinders comfortable?

[Sankofa]

Why? The FARC from everything I understand is nothing more than a drug organization. They aren't really a revolutionary group anymore.

That's what every puppet government in Latin America says about their guerilla. The fact that "comrades" eat that bourgeois bull shit up is really disgusting.

I think all of us being Communists should know how the powers that be have no problems what so ever spreading lies to sustain their strangle hold on the masses.


Yes, Chavez has ordered 10 battalions of troops from the Venezuelan army mobilized on the border with Colombia. I for one am pleased, and I hope the situation develops progressively. It would be nice if increased support from Venezuela allowed the FARC to break free of its perpetual lack of progress.

Can you imagine the Venezuelan military teaming up with Las Farc? I think that Uribe would be in deep shit.

[R_P_A_S]

Uribe is a real fucking piece of shit. probably the worst president after Bush.fuck. I cant believe they just went into Ecuador like that and killed a top FARC official JUST DAYS after they been cooperating!!!!!!!!!!!

[KurtFF8]

Here we see the consequence of being "ambivalent" towards groups that do not have enough ideological "purity". Let's see: the army of the repressive Colombian state launches an incursion into another country's territory, to murder the #2 of a left-wing group in his sleep. And you think there's nothing wrong with that? :blink:

It reminds me of a few weeks ago, when you said that you wouldn't say anything about the Colombian embassy-organized anti-FARC protests, because the FARC are bad as well. Are those blinders comfortable?

It isn't that they aren't "ideologically pure" but little of what they do seems revolutionary. I mean drug trafficking? Explain the justification for that.

Lot of their actions don't quite seem to be for the benefit of the working class but themselves:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farc#Activities

Just because the Columbian government is bad and is basically a US puppet doesn't mean that its opposition is automatically something we should support.

I'm not being "blinded by western propaganda," I just haven't seen any real good evidence that the FARC is a good organization worth supporting. Perhaps if you guys could provide some good sources or links I would certainly be open to reconsider.

[KurtFF8]

Let's see: the army of the repressive Colombian state launches an incursion into another country's territory, to murder the #2 of a left-wing group in his sleep. And you think there's nothing wrong with that? :blink:



Also, this is a straw man argument. I never said anything like this, I simply criticized FARC. That doesn't mean I support the Columbian government.

[dez]

sorry comrade, but the farc arent revolutionary forces, in fact they r just criminals who kills civilians and sell drugs


they have an army of 16000 soliders if they wanted to they could do a coup d’état, but they dont want to, they just want money, money from drugs kiddnapings and vacunas


what there is in colombia is not a civil war, cuz in a civil war there r political blocks who wants to seize or keep the power


what there is in colombia is a gangs war

The FARC do not engage in selling or producing drugs.
They do offer protection to drug dealers, the same way as the right winged militias do (AUC), but that's just because they have to get money from somewhere since USSR has fallen.


But yeah, you got something right. Uribe's government is a criminal one, bordering a rogue state now, and the farc are an illegal paramilitary organization. I find that "gangs war" is a particularly funny way to name the whole situation.

[dez]

Uribe is a real fucking piece of shit. probably the worst president after Bush.fuck. I cant believe they just went into Ecuador like that and killed a top FARC official JUST DAYS after they been cooperating!!!!!!!!!!!

Believe it or not, he is worse.

[Sankofa]

I'm not being "blinded by western propaganda," I just haven't seen any real good evidence that the FARC is a good organization worth supporting. Perhaps if you guys could provide some good sources or links I would certainly be open to reconsider.

Do your own research to find out the truth about Leftwing movements.

Coming to this thread, accusing Las FARC of being narco-trafficing terrorists, and then asking us to provide sources is a little weak. But I digress.

As far as the Colombian Government's favored "drug trafficing" claim goes, completely baseless. The real "narcos" are the AUC or United Self Defense Force of Colombia; the right-wing paramilitaries supported by Uribe's regime.

It's no secret that the AUC admits that it principally finances itself through the Colombian narcotic industry. Studies show that 80 percent of paramilitary funding comes from drug trafficking.

So you see, Las FARC don't control the drugs in Colombia, the AUC does. They simply tax the revenededoras who buy coca leaves from the peasant farmers on FARC land.

Sources: Russell Crandall, Driven by Drugs: U.S. Policy Toward Colombia (London: Lynne Rienner Publishers, 2002), 88. and Stan Goff, Full Spectrum Disorder (New York: Soft Skull Press, 2004), 33

Oh yeah, FARC also runs schools, medical facilities, and an independent judicial system for the people in their territories...the fucking monsters.

If you're still a bit skeptical, you can visit the source where those sources came from personally: http://www.monthlyreview.org/0905brittain.htm

It's a great article; really in depth, gives the history of FARC's formation, who it's members are, how they get their funding, etc. In short, it serves to debunk tons of the propaganda slung at Las FARC by the USA and Colombia.

One last thing, the United States doesn't give a shit about stopping the flow of drugs. Go read up on the guerilla war in Nicaragua where the U.S. Governemnt purposely transported cocaine to fund Las Contras, more paramilitary death squads, to combat the Sandinista rebellion there.

Don't forget Laos during the Vietnam War, when the CIA actively worked as drug runners and distributed opium and heroin across South East Asia (into the very hands of U.S. soldiers, no less.) in return for support of the drug traffickers in Laos against the NVA.

[KurtFF8]

Do your own research to find out the truth about Leftwing movements.

I think you misunderstood my meaning. I was saying that what i've read has lead me to have the opinion I have, and when everyone just responds with "nope that's not true" and doesn't provide sources or good counter-information, that isn't a good counter-argument.

My asking for other sources was a response to the replies to my criticism of FARC.

[Sankofa]

I think you misunderstood my meaning. I was saying that what i've read has lead me to have the opinion I have, and when everyone just responds with "nope that's not true" and doesn't provide sources or good counter-information, that isn't a good counter-argument.

My asking for other sources was a response to the replies to my criticism of FARC.

Well, I simply meant you should read more to get the proper information.I think we can agree the sources you got your information about Las FARC from weren't exactly un-biased.

But, anywho, I'm glad I could give you a source to counter the negative things you've heard.

[BIG BROTHER]

You'll have to forgive me comrades, but even though I despise Colombia's right-wing goverment, and the US imperialist interventions in colombia, I think las FARC has grown corrupt, because even the same poor people who they are supposed to be fighting for, are against them due to harrasment, kidnapins and stuff like that.

p.s. now don't get me wrong I know the paramilitary groups are also brutal to las FARC and other civilians

[Sankofa]

You'll have to forgive me comrades, but even though I despise Colombia's right-wing goverment, and the US imperialist interventions in colombia, I think las FARC has grown corrupt, because even the same poor people who they are supposed to be fighting for, are against them due to harrasment, kidnapins and stuff like that.

p.s. now don't get me wrong I know the paramilitary groups are also brutal to las FARC and other civilians

Sorry comrade, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Do you have any (reputable) sources that proves that Las FARC is slaughtering the peasant population? That just doesn't make sense.

In the article I cited above, it shows that FARC is actually formed from poor peasants, who rose up in defense against the constant harrasment from the government.

65% of Las Farc is from the peasant class. They have a better life with the guerilla, fighting for a revolution, than they do as poor farmers for the rest of their miserable lives under Uribe's Colombia.

FARC may not be saints, but they aren't stupid. Why would they attack their main support and recruitment base?

The AUC, however, is notorious for torturing, killing, and raping peasants.

Three of the most widely known massacres that the paramilitaries are responsible far include the Mapiripan, Alto Naya, and Betoyes massacres.

Here's a link to the information in wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitarism_in_Colombia#Massacres

Cited sources for the information in that page include articles by Democracy, Now!, Human Rights organizations and other independent sources which you can read personally.

[Herman]

Ecuador has also joined Chavez in reinforcing their border militarilly with Colombia. I never thought that this would happen. Uribe is in deep trouble.

[dez]

You'll have to forgive me comrades, but even though I despise Colombia's right-wing goverment, and the US imperialist interventions in colombia, I think las FARC has grown corrupt, because even the same poor people who they are supposed to be fighting for, are against them due to harrasment, kidnapins and stuff like that.

p.s. now don't get me wrong I know the paramilitary groups are also brutal to las FARC and other civilians

The Farc isn't as popular as it was due to their lack of funds.
That's right.
Lack of funds.
Like other resistance movements, they are a parallel power to the state in some areas, and since ussr has cut the funding, the first thing they had to cut down is welfare. That means, less money for schools, hospitals and etc.

Nothing like the AUC, though, they are more like a huge group of middle class civilians with connections in the military that gather to do shit - a death squad.

[BIG BROTHER]

And what could you guys tell me about the kidnapings that they do? I realiza why they would kidnap politicians, but why simple civilians? And I'm sure the paramilitary groups do it too, but why to they force children to fight for las FARC?

[Coggeh]

Sorry comrade, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Do you have any (reputable) sources that proves that Las FARC is slaughtering the peasant population? That just doesn't make sense.

In the article I cited above, it shows that FARC is actually formed from poor peasants, who rose up in defense against the constant harrasment from the government.

65% of Las Farc is from the peasant class. They have a better life with the guerilla, fighting for a revolution, than they do as poor farmers for the rest of their miserable lives under Uribe's Colombia.

FARC may not be saints, but they aren't stupid. Why would they attack their main support and recruitment base?

The AUC, however, is notorious for torturing, killing, and raping peasants.

Three of the most widely known massacres that the paramilitaries are responsible far include the Mapiripan, Alto Naya, and Betoyes massacres.

Here's a link to the information in wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitarism_in_Colombia#Massacres

Cited sources for the information in that page include articles by Democracy, Now!, Human Rights organizations and other independent sources which you can read personally.
I don't think the discussion should be are FARC terrorists or corrupt but are they revolutionary ? Clearly they are not .

They are an isolated movement that don't have the popular support of the Columbian working class and never will gain it.

[Sankofa]

And what could you guys tell me about the kidnapings that they do? I realiza why they would kidnap politicians, but why simple civilians? And I'm sure the paramilitary groups do it too, but why to they force children to fight for las FARC?

What civilians are you talking about? As far as I know, they usually kidnap government officials, police officers, soldiers, and the like.

Second, FARC does not "force" children to join their army.

This is from an article done by a Colombian journalist with Raul Reyes just last year that deals with this very subject:

Q:Some human rights organizations claim that the FARC recruits children, sometimes forcibly. How do you respond to these accusations?

Reyes: I think there is disinformation there, because those who join the FARC are between 15 and 30 years of age, that is the norm. Nobody younger than that joins. The FARC never forces anybody to join, it is completely contrary to our safety regulations. Why would I give a weapon to someone that has been forced to join and then tell him he has to be my bodyguard? The guard is going to make me pay right there with that weapon. This is disinformation from these organizations. It never happens. What causes this disinformation? In many cases there are boys and girls that join and then later, for one reason or another, they decide to leave. Life here is very hard, one must be disciplined. Perhaps they had family that they couldn’t see, a son or a daughter, or a boyfriend, or a girlfriend. Or they thought that this struggle would be easy and then they aren’t willing to make the sacrifice so they leave. If they are youths, I’m referring to those under 20 years of age, then in many cases they are going to say that they were forced to join in order to defend themselves against the repression of the police, and also in many cases of their families.


Then there are cases in which there are those who want to fight in the guerrillas but many times their parents do not want them to join because the father wants to have his son at home and the mother wants her daughter there. They do not want them to join. But they persist and join the guerrillas, they flee from their houses and appear at our guard posts. It so happens that they join the FARC voluntarily. But many times when they leave they lie to their fathers and mothers and say that they were forced to join and the fathers and mothers believe them. And later, if the authorities conduct an investigation, the parents say that their son or daughter was forced to join and then that information is collected by Amnesty International or others. But I reiterate, it is not the policy of the FARC to recruit children or to enlist anybody by force.


[Source: http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia259.htm] (http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia259.htm%5D)

Comrades, this information is everywhere on the internet about Las FARC.

We shouldn't buckle our knees and regurgitate bourgeois lies when the information is this easy to find...honestly.


I don't think the discussion should be are FARC terrorists or corrupt but are they revolutionary ? Clearly they are not .

They are an isolated movement that don't have the popular support of the Columbian working class and never will gain it.

What kind of defeatist bullshit is this? Who are you to pass judgement on wheter or not Las FARC is revolutionary or not?

A movement that's managed to survive half a century isn't what I would call "isolated". They've survived for a reason; whether or not they have the unconditional support of Colombia's working class is irrelevant.

[BIG BROTHER]

Yonkers thanks for submiting that article, now to answer your question, I've tried to check out las FARC's website but my dammed virus-full computer for some reason won't let me so I have to rely on mainstream media to know about las FARC:(

[Sankofa]

Yonkers thanks for submiting that article, now to answer your question, I've tried to check out las FARC's website but my dammed virus-full computer for some reason won't let me so I have to rely on mainstream media to know about las FARC:(

No worries. I actually don't think it's your computer...FARC's official web site has been down for a little while as far as I know.

[BIG BROTHER]

oh...that sucks It would be nice to hear the version of both sides, not just one, regarding this conflict.

[Raisa]

sorry comrade, but the farc arent revolutionary forces, in fact they r just criminals who kills civilians and sell drugs


they have an army of 16000 soliders if they wanted to they could do a coup d’état, but they dont want to, they just want money, money from drugs kiddnapings and vacunas


what there is in colombia is not a civil war, cuz in a civil war there r political blocks who wants to seize or keep the power


what there is in colombia is a gangs war


What?! how is this your conclusion?

How do you think communist revolutionary militias are supposed to make money in third world countries????!
Colombia is kind of nice but thats beside the point.
What should they do to get on some real shit and have land and have a stance besides "uh we are communists ...lets have um....demonstrations to demonstrate how sick people are of being slaves to this state who is a slave to america?"

Should they sell newspapers?
Of course they have to be gangsta, look where their at! nd whats going on.
Look what went on in Latin America for hte last minute......!
Anytime a communist situation got into power some "other" country went and screwed it up. The people have no hope so Farc, im just saying maybe they had to step their game up.

How else should they raise money? I am asking you as an honest question cuase i dont fuck with rhetorical questions.

[Sankofa]

How else should they raise money? I am asking you as an honest question cuase i dont fuck with rhetorical questions.

Comrade, you should check out the article is cited on post #23 of this thread.

It shows that Las FARC merely taxes the people who buy coca from the local farmers. It's actually the government, via the paramilitaries that take an active part in the drug trade.

[Winter]

A senior commander of Colombian rebel group, the Farc, has been killed in combat. Will this reshape the civil war?

(Feed provided by BBC News | Have your Say (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/2/hi/talking_point/default.stm))

I hope this will embolden FARC and make them want to fight harder! RIP Reyes.

[Coggeh]

What kind of defeatist bullshit is this? Who are you to pass judgement on wheter or not Las FARC is revolutionary or not?

A movement that's managed to survive half a century isn't what I would call "isolated". They've survived for a reason; whether or not they have the unconditional support of Colombia's working class is irrelevant.
I didn't know i needed credentials to pass my opinion , who are you to say capitalism is a load of horse shit ?

What gains have FARC made of the Columbian working class ?

The support or a possibility of support from the working class is key in creating or the running of a "revolutionary" organization .FARC have mass opposition from the people of Columbia and have already split with the Columbian communist party , I really don't think we'll be seeing democratic socialism as a result of FARC anytime soon

[spartan]

The support or a possibility of support from the working class is key in creating or the running of a "revolutionary" organization .FARC have mass opposition from the people of Columbia and have already split with the Columbian communist party , I really don't think we'll be seeing democratic socialism as a result of FARC anytime soon

You are asking the wrong questions, the question you should be asking is what makes thousands of working class people go into the jungle and take up arms against their government?

[Sankofa]

I didn't know i needed credentials to pass my opinion , who are you to say capitalism is a load of horse shit ?



It's easy for you to label other leftists as "non-revolutionary" from the comfort of your computer room. Fact is, Las FARC have done more for the "cause" than you or I, comrade.

I'm a member of the working class and therefore have the right to say capitialism is bullshit.


What gains have FARC made of the Columbian working class ?

The support or a possibility of support from the working class is key in creating or the running of a "revolutionary" organization .FARC have mass opposition from the people of Columbia and have already split with the Columbian communist party , I really don't think we'll be seeing democratic socialism as a result of FARC anytime soon

Las FARC is primarily made up of the peasant class. FARC does have some opposition from the working class in Colombia, not all. What are they supposed to do? Demobilize because the people in the city aren't class concious?

They split with the communist party because they aren't progressive. FARC already tried doing things the "democratic" way once; that is, until Uribe started to assasinate people in that politcal party.