The unOfficial Spanish Civil War Poll! Who would you have joined?

[bayano]

At the risk of starting another one on this messageboard, who would you have fought for during the conflict, and what would you have done differently in their place? Could there have been less violence within the leftist groups? Why or why not?

oh fuck, i forgot the POUM. someones going to kill me over this. ADMIN, ADMIN, please delete!

[RedAnarchist]

Probably have gone for the CNT-FAI. I think that there should have been far more cooperation between the Anarchists and the Communists.

[Colonello Buendia]

I'd have fought for the CNT probably, however I'd have fought side by side with any anti-fascist

[Random Precision]

I would imagine that I'd be in the CNT/FAI, given that it contained the proletarian vanguard of the Spanish Revolution. Maybe ended up joining the Friends of Durruti, I don't know. Or possibly the POUM. I would have ended up pretty dissatisfied with either's leadership, though.

[rouchambeau]

I would have joined the revolutionaries.

[Asoka89]

POUM for sure :P i voted socialists

[mario_buda]

Probably have gone for the CNT-FAI. I think that there should have been far more cooperation between the Anarchists and the Communists.

There was cooperation between communists and this to me seems to be a weak point in the anarchists and libertarian communists strategy. It didn't seem to work out well for them (political assassination, denial of weapons by stalinists on fronts and then called fascist sympathizers for not fighting hard enough, constant slander and manipulation). A historical perspective allows one to wonder why anti-authoritarians ever work with authoritarians.

Read Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia", when insurrections die, or other anti-authoritarian histories and criticisms of the Spanish civil war/revolution.

[nvm]

although i m a communist i would fight with the CNT

[Prairie Fire]

I would imagine that I'd be in the CNT/FAI, given that it contained the proletarian vanguard of the Spanish Revolution. Maybe ended up joining the Friends of Durruti, I don't know. Or possibly the POUM.


"Friends of Durruti"? Catbert, what the hell? why not the communists?

[spartan]

POUM so that i could hang out and talk politics with Orwell.

[Cult of Reason]

CNT-FAI, specifically the Friends of Durruti group.

They should have smashed the state when they had the chance and should have extended their revolution further.

[Xiao Banfa]

The UGT or the communists.

[Herman]

The Communists or The Socialists.

[chimx]

I don't know much about the right wing rebels, and what better way to learn about 'em than to fight with 'em in Spain?

[Forward Union]

CNT-FAI

[Kropotesta]

CNT/FAI
however I would of tried to set up a more of group with the and worked more independtly from the Republic and more authoritarian groups- the communists.

[RebelDog]

Probably have gone for the CNT-FAI. I think that there should have been far more cooperation between the Anarchists and the Communists.

The Communist Party (Stalinist) were a force which was intent on crushing the CNT/FAI and the UGT revolutionary gains. Their idea of cooperation was to conspire against the libertarian proletarian revolution, murder comrades, deny the CNT/FAI weapons and material, and reverse collectivisation. They were ferociously determined to preserve the state and put the workers and people back in their place.

I would have fought with the CNT/FAI and would probably have joined the Friends of Durruti on becoming disillusioned with the revolution.

[chimx]

I would probably still have fought on the side that didn't die.

[Bright Banana Beard]

CNT/FAI and they still popular in Spain. btw what is "the basque" beside the place?

[Random Precision]

"Friends of Durruti"? Catbert, what the hell? why not the communists?

The PCE was counterrevolutionary, and represented the interests of the petty-bourgeoisie.

And I was trying to project backward, as if I were actually in the Civil War, considering that who I might have been and who I would have sided with, etc. Believe me, I'm not very fond of anarchism, especially not the CNT's leadership. But I have great admiration for the Spanish proletariat, the most advanced section of which were the anarchists.

[KurtFF8]

There definitely should have been more cooperation among the left groups. This is likely one of the reasons that the left lost the war. There was cooperation as noted earlier, but also as noted earlier, there was too much infighting. This is a problem that the left has all over the place and this problem needs to be overcome.

[victim77]

Look at my avatar.....

I haven't really started going in depth into the Spanish civil war yet though.

[Xiao Banfa]

After watching 'Land and Freedom' (Dir. Ken Loach), I thought those silly little trots came across as spazzy dilettantes.

I thought the PCE, PSOE and UGT tactic of uniting as many classes as possible against fascism was the ticket.

I mean, there was revolutionary sentiment but it alienated some of the classes that could have been fighting fascism. Not clever.

[Random Precision]

After watching 'Land and Freedom' (Dir. Ken Loach), I thought those silly little trots came across as spazzy dilettantes.

I thought the PCE, PSOE and UGT tactic of uniting as many classes as possible against fascism was the ticket.

I mean, there was revolutionary sentiment but it alienated some of the classes that could have been fighting fascism. Not clever.

That's assuming that opposing classes, e.g. the bourgeoisie and the proletariat can be united in the first place. They can't. This central truth of Marxism was proven correct when the Republican bourgeoisie, as represented by the liberal Republican and Catalan/Basque separatist parties, and the middle class, as represented by the PCE, turned upon the proletariat rather than focusing their effort on the fascists.

[Xiao Banfa]

That's assuming that opposing classes, e.g. the bourgeoisie and the proletariat can be united in the first place.


Not forever, but they certainly won't unite with the proletariat if you take their land and shoot priests and shit. Do that later (minus shooting the priests- unless they've committed a crime).



turned upon the proletariat rather than focusing their effort on the fascists.


What were the planes and tanks for then? I think they were for pwning
fascists.

I'm no stalinist, but I think when the wolf is at your door it's stupid to start shit with your only friend (albeit a temporary one with conditions).

Stalinists mostly destroy revolutions they can't control, so just live with it untill you can change it. The middle of a war against fascism isn't the time.

[Bilan]

One would have to be a totally ignorant to join the 'socialists' in the Spanish Civil War.
They, in the lead up, epitomized the betrayal of the working classes, and did so after.
(There were exceptions, but, really, not enough to fight for, or 'join' them).

Definitely the CNT/FAI.
The will of the people.

[Marukusu]

Probably POUM, though the CNT-FAI did some very cool collectivization in Catalonia...
I vote for the socialist in any case.

[Xiao Banfa]

The PSOE (the so called socialists) were affilliated to the UGT (union general de los trabajadores). So they were the same.

[Red October]

CNT-FAI, no doubt.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Cnt Fai

[Spartacist]

The Communists!

[Gitfiddle Jim]

Definitely the CNT or FAI, as both organisations had people's desire in mind.

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

POUM probably I have been to the Basque country and it is a beautiful place, if not POUM then I would have fought with the Basques.

Karbrino the Basques are an ethnic minority, who are possibly decedents of the pre-Celtic Europeans inhabitants (i.e. the Native Europeans) they were persecuted by the Franco regime and have there own terrorist group ETA.

[The Feral Underclass]

I chose the FAI.

[Bright Banana Beard]

POUM probably I have been to the Basque country and it is a beautiful place, if not POUM then I would have fought with the Basques.

Karbrino the Basques are an ethnic minority, who are possibly decedents of the pre-Celtic Europeans inhabitants (i.e. the Native Europeans) they were persecuted by the Franco regime and have there own terrorist group ETA.

thank for the info.

[apathy maybe]

I think that actually 'otro' was the best chance the anti-state movement had in Spain. Indeed, I still think that otro is the best option for all left-wing anti-statists.

[Herman]

I think that actually 'otro' was the best chance the anti-state movement had in Spain. Indeed, I still think that otro is the best option for all left-wing anti-statists.

I agree. Otro definitely had sound policies and guidelines. The fascists were unable to defeat them until the last day of the Spanish civil war. They also gave pancakes, tapas and condoms... for free!

[Comrade Rage]

Would've fought with the Communists, although I'd've fought along with any other anti-fascist.

[Xiao Banfa]

and have there own terrorist group ETA.

I want me own terrorist group.:ohmy:

[RebelDog]

Not forever, but they certainly won't unite with the proletariat if you take their land and shoot priests and shit. Do that later (minus shooting the priests- unless they've committed a crime).



What were the planes and tanks for then? I think they were for pwning
fascists.

I'm no stalinist, but I think when the wolf is at your door it's stupid to start shit with your only friend (albeit a temporary one with conditions).

Stalinists mostly destroy revolutions they can't control, so just live with it untill you can change it. The middle of a war against fascism isn't the time.

What you are arguing for is just to repeat the same old mistakes and to give the enemies of proletarian revolution ever more opportunities to destroy that revolution. For a proletarian revolution to ever succeed the events in Spain show us there can be no class collaboration whatsoever, the proletariat must take power in a totalitarian revolution. The primary reason for the co-opting of the CNT in to the 'popular front' was to control and destroy it.

[Xiao Banfa]

What you are arguing for is just to repeat the same old mistakes and to give the enemies of proletarian revolution ever more opportunities to destroy that revolution.


There is no revolution with a fascist victory or would you suggest repeating the same old mistakes?


For a proletarian revolution to ever succeed the events in Spain show us there can be no class collaboration whatsoever, the proletariat must take power in a totalitarian revolution.

What a great idea, you will have fewer allies and no weapons.


The primary reason for the co-opting of the CNT in to the 'popular front' was to control and destroy it.

The CNT wasn't strictly in a popular front, there was a united front of anti-fascists (which was unstable)

If they were in a popular front maybe they wouldn't have ran around acting like children.

[RebelDog]

There is no revolution with a fascist victory or would you suggest repeating the same old mistakes?
There is no revolution with the rebuilding of the bourgeois state, which is what the CNT class collaborators helped do. I would suggest, and history shows I would be correct in doing so, that there is no possibility of communism being achieved without the working class taking complete power and self-managing the economy. May I remind you that the CNT (or elements therein) did collaborate with the counter-revolutionaries and the fascists did win. There would definitely have been no revolution with a popular-front/republican victory and that is clear in the history of the revolution and their criminal repression of the working class.


What a great idea, you will have fewer allies and no weapons.The political parties sucked the CNT in to control and eventually destroy them, not to arm them to better defeat the fascists. If the objective was simply to destroy the fascist threat, why were arms withheld from the militias at all?


The CNT wasn't strictly in a popular front, there was a united front of anti-fascists (which was unstable)You don't make much sense. The CNT collaborated with and joined both the regional Catalonian government (Generalidad) and the national popular front government.


If they were in a popular front maybe they wouldn't have ran around acting like children.Could you be clearer please, to whom are you referring to as "children."?

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

.

I want me own terrorist group.:ohmy:

well if the spanish start oppressing New Zeland then I think there will be one on the way pretty soon. If your Maori (spelling?) then it wouldn't supprize me if there is one, I think there used to be one, tbh im not up on my NZ history.

[Magic Snowman]

How are there more votes for the Facist rebels than the POUM? :confused:

[Bright Banana Beard]

How are there more votes for the Facist rebels than the POUM? :confused:

That because the POUM is asking for another state and doesn't go on to include communism or anarchism in their name.

[Magic Snowman]

umm... Partido Obrero de Unificación Marxista

[Bright Banana Beard]

umm... Partido Obrero de Unificación Marxista

According to George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia.
POUM is anti-Stalinist, firm believer in what he termed Democratic Socialism, socialism with free debate and free elections.

[lombas]

I ain't fighting in some damned civil war.

[Raúl Duke]

CNT-FAI of course ;)

Although specifically I would like to have been involved in the Friends of Durruti group :cool:.

[Forward Union]

I ain't fighting in some damned civil war.

So you wouldn't have fought for the Anarchists in what was probably our second biggest uprising?

I suppose I should asking that to someone with max stirner in their display pic :cool:

[lombas]

So you wouldn't have fought for the Anarchists in what was probably our second biggest uprising?

Heck no, I could get killed. And then who's gonna keep an eye on my better half for me? --- Wait, that's ambiguous.



I suppose I should asking that to someone with max stirner in their display pic :cool:

That doesn't mean "I" don't fight in wars. It just means I myself find it rather a inconvenience to get shot in this period of my life. By all means, do as you please. I'll support it from the sideline. Do the propaganda and stuff. Way behind the front line.

:lol:

Beside, was the food any good?

[F9]

Propably CNT-FAI.

Fuserg9:star:

[JDHURF]

Probably have gone for the CNT-FAI. I think that there should have been far more cooperation between the Anarchists and the Communists.I agree. There actually was quite a bit of cooperation between the anarchists, the syndicalists and the common communist, however, many of the Bolshevik sympathizers and Stalinists acted as a counterrevolutionary force in Spain. I would post a link to a really decent documentary about this very thing, anarchist and communist cooperation within the revolution and also to information about the counterrevolutionary communists...but I'm not allowed to do so yet.

[A.J.]

I voted for the "the republic itself"(as abstract and lofty as that may sound)

The situation at the time demanded the broadest possible coaltion of anti-fascist forces to be built up. Not the puerile ultra-leftism and sectarianism of the anarchists and 'P.O.U.M.'(derived out of their infantile petty-bourgoeis individualism IMHO).

[Kropotesta]

I voted for the "the republic itself"(as abstract and lofty as that may sound)

The situation at the time demanded the broadest possible coaltion of anti-fascist forces to be built up. Not the puerile ultra-leftism and sectarianism of the anarchists and 'P.O.U.M.'(derived out of their infantile petty-bourgoeis individualism IMHO).
petty bourgeosie? so what? Marx did say at the time of revolution the petty bourgeosie would split with some joining the proltariatian revolution while others would side with the bourgeosie.

[Honggweilo]

The PCE for sure; La Pasionaria ftw!

second choice would be the CNT/FAI, third the socialist republicans.

I would rather join the right wing anti-fascists then the insideous POUM though

[Lamanov]

95 votes so far, 56 for the revolution, the rest for the liberal bourgeoisie.

:glare:

[RedStarOverChina]

Even though I'm a communist I'd say the anarchists were far more revolutionary in this particular scenario.

[RedAnarchist]

The PCE for sure; La Pasionaria ftw!

I have a book about her. She ended up being a Eurocommunist.

[thejambo1]

have to be cnt/fai for me.

[PRC-UTE]

If memory serves, only the Anarchist forces accepted female volunteers? Can someone tell me if that is correct? Kind of narrows the options for our female comrades here, unless we're going strictly by ideological preference.

[#FF0000]

CNT/FAI of course. Wouldn't have been much fun to be left high and dry by Uncle Joe, but either way the anarchists did some fantastic work.

And, yes, PRC-UTE, they allowed female volunteers.

[Trystan]

The most radical group there was - CNT/FAI.

[Trystan]

If memory serves, only the Anarchist forces accepted female volunteers? Can someone tell me if that is correct? Kind of narrows the options for our female comrades here, unless we're going strictly by ideological preference.

I'm pretty sure the POUM militias initially allowed women but banned them from front-line combat later on. Not sure though . . .

[Partisano]

:star:
Con la agrupación de mis bisabuelos. Soy cntista hasta morir.
¡Vivan Durruti y La Fai!

[Yazman]

The CNT-FAI, likely. Although I do feel that with so many organisations it was far too fragmented, which was perhaps their major downfall.

[cccplikai]

Communists are very good!!!

[RedAnarchist]

Communists are very good!!!

Hi, welcome to RevLeft:)

If you l;ike, you can post in Chinese in the Chinese subforum - http://www.revleft.com/vb/20013-25991-chinese-f44/index.html

[Bilan]

I voted for the "the republic itself"(as abstract and lofty as that may sound)

The situation at the time demanded the broadest possible coaltion of anti-fascist forces to be built up. Not the puerile ultra-leftism and sectarianism of the anarchists and 'P.O.U.M.'(derived out of their infantile petty-bourgoeis individualism IMHO).

The irony of you calling anarchists 'petit bourgeois' here is insane.

For the sake of clarity, it was a bourgeois republic. The anarchists, being working class militants, fought for libertarian communism: all power to the working class.

Nothing bourgeois about the anarchists, nor 'petit bourgeois'.
Dare I say, speak for yourself, comrade.

[Random Precision]

The irony of you calling anarchists 'petit bourgeois' here is insane.

For the sake of clarity, it was a bourgeois republic. The anarchists, being working class militants, fought for libertarian communism: all power to the working class.

Nothing bourgeois about the anarchists, nor 'petit bourgeois'.
Dare I say, speak for yourself, comrade.

It's even more funny because AJ is a Stalinist, and the Stalinist PCE during the war represented the interests of the petty-bourgeoisie. Also, it seems a very petty-bourgeois idea to advocate class collaboration like he's doing.

[redSHARP]

personally the CNT-FAI would be my choice. but any anti-facist would have been my comrade, until the war was over...

[Peacekeeper]

Probably the first Leftist group that I found. Factionalism has no place in war.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Cnt/fai

[Bear MacMillan]

I chose the Basque but I wouldn't mind fighting with the communists.

[Andres Marcos]

LOL wut!?

who picked the ' The right wing rebels':cursing:

[Pawn Power]

It probably depends on what part of the country I was in. If I was living in Catalonia or Valencia it defiantly would be CNT-FAI

[hekmatista]

Realistically, as a Yank, I would probably have wound up with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade communists at the time. Knowing what I know now and projecting myself into the situation, I could not have supported the PCE, however. I'm not Spanish or a syndicalist, so I'd have to say POUM.

[evil chris]

"who picked the ' The right wing rebels'"

Wouldn't be over suprised. The Flange were on about the same page alot of the Stalinists. And ended up being totally sold out by the guiding hands of their revolution. Much like the Leftys who were actully fighting did, by the Stalinists.

So sadly my anarcho and POUM comrades - although following your heart to the right organisation for you is commendable, it wouldnt have been a long life plan regardless of who wins the war.

[Djehuti]

I would fight in the Durruti Column, they fought well and had the best analysis.

[Red October]

Realistically, as a Yank, I would probably have wound up with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade communists at the time. Knowing what I know now and projecting myself into the situation, I could not have supported the PCE, however. I'm not Spanish or a syndicalist, so I'd have to say POUM.

The Durruti Column contained an American unit called the "Sacco and Vanzetti Century", as well as a French and German unit.

I would've joined with the CNT/FAI.

[AGITprop]

I don't know who I would have fought with, definitely not the stalinists though.

What exactly was the CNT-FAI and what were the differences between the communists and socialists.

Also, who were the POUM?

:D

All I know is that I'd have probably gone.

[Raúl Duke]

Also, who were the POUM?

The POUM are the trotskists who sided with the anarchists (CNT-FAI, Friends of Durruti).

[AGITprop]

Oh RIGHT!

That's who Orwell was with.

POUM for the win.

[Mather]

cnt-fai.

[Red October]

I don't know who I would have fought with, definitely not the stalinists though.

What exactly was the CNT-FAI and what were the differences between the communists and socialists.

Also, who were the POUM?

:D

All I know is that I'd have probably gone.

The CNT was an anarcho-syndicalist trade union that was especially strong in Catalonia. The FAI was a sort of internal group of the CNT that was responsible with making sure the CNT stayed on an anarchist path. The CNT-FAI was the main force fighting for a social revolution in Spain as the best way to beat the fascists, as opposed to the Communists, Socialists, and Republicans who mostly believed that a revolution had to wait until the war was won.

[3A CCCP]

The Communists!

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[The Grapes of Wrath]

The Socialists; although the POUM gets honorable mention. Given what I know of these events and what happened to these groups, it would have been best to not get involved with the POUM or the Socialists; but I can't bring myself to have joined the Stalinist-lackeys (Communists), and certainly not the Right.

TGOW

[Red October]

The Socialists; although the POUM gets honorable mention. Given what I know of these events and what happened to these groups, it would have been best to not get involved with the POUM or the Socialists; but I can't bring myself to have joined the Stalinist-lackeys (Communists), and certainly not the Right.

TGOW

Then join the Anarchists!
;)

[The Grapes of Wrath]

Then join the Anarchists!
;)

I'm not an Anarchist. Nice try though.

TGOW

[Leo]

Thread split:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/grandizo-munis-natalia-t82377/index.html?t=82377

[Comrade B]

POUM due to a massive amount of romanticizing of it in movies. Also, I fancy myself a Trot.

[Yehuda Stern]

(Just putting this back here, since it is relevant)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyDarko
The POUM are the trotskists who sided with the anarchists (CNT-FAI, Friends of Durruti).

No. The POUM and the Fourth broke off relations after Nin refused to work with the Socialist Youth when it broke with the PSOE. Trotsky saw this as forsaking a militant proletarian organization moving to the left to the influence of the Stalinists, who indeed took over the organization within a short time.

The Trotskyists at the time of the revolution, the Bolshevik-Leninists of Spain, were a tiny group (eight people, I think). One of their members, Grandizo Munis, survived the war and took a state capitalist position on the USSR, and was on good terms with Natalia Sedova (Trotsky's wife) after WWII. They were friendly with the Friends of Durrti, though (but not with the official anarchists).

[Red Flag Rising]

The Communists. They knew how to do the job right.

[Mala Tha Testa]

Cnt-fai
lol, my comp won't let me put 'em in as all caps, :/

[gla22]

The Communists. They knew how to do the job right.


No the communist betrayed the revolution. the Poum or the CNT-FAI is where it was at and the true revolution was occurring. I would've joined the Poum so i could chill with Orwell.

[Comrade B]

The communists
Do you mean the Stalinists by this one?
I am a communist, but definitely not a Stalinist
The Stalinists started shooting at everyone. They lost us the civil war. To hell with them.

[Mod-ist]

Probably the POUM

[Yehuda Stern]

No the communist betrayed the revolution. the Poum or the CNT-FAI is where it was at and the true revolution was occurring.

I agree that the CP betrayed the revolution, but the POUM and the Anarachists were no better. They too supported the people's front.

[Poum_1936]

the Bolshevik-Leninists of Spain, were a tiny group (eight people, I think).

I think the number was more around 30. But yeah, still an insignificant presence.

Initially I would have joined with the POUM, then realize the POUM's along with CNT-FAI's leadership was terrible. And from there, start working with groups like the Friends of Durriti or the Bolshevik-Leninists (providing I could have found one of them).

[Jordi-FCB]

I would of fought for the Republic and for Catalunya until I died

[Lamanov]

I would of fought for the Republic and for Catalunya until I died

The national army?

That means PSUC ("communist" officers), and that means trouble.

[rebelworker]

The CNT FIA were the communists!

and we def. need a Friends of Durruti sub Section!

And the POUM were not Trotskyist....(though close ish).

The Communist Party of Spain should be reffered to as the upper middle class and small shop owners association in this instance:D

[Wanted Man]

6 people are assholes! :mad:

Anyway, I'm not sure if it matters which losing side one would join. I voted 'communists', but it would be the International Brigades to be precise.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Can we make this poll public so we can restrict those who voted for the right-wing rebels (or ban, since they were fascists)?

[RedAnarchist]

I second making this poll public, although to be honest I think some people voted for the right-wingers as a joke (can non-registered or restricted members still vote in polls?).

Chimx voted for the right-wing rebels, but did so to learn about them rather than support them.

[AntifaUSA]

I would support the Basque Gudarostea (army) and the socialists

[OI OI OI]

the POUM probably
the CNT-FAI would be m second choice.

[RebelDog]

Dumbass:

Anyway, I'm not sure if it matters which losing side one would join. I voted 'communists', but it would be the International Brigades to be precise.

The CNT and the POUM were not on the same side as the communists. The Spanish Communist Party (PCE) were always more interested in reversing real working and peasant class economic/social gains, stamping the authority of Stalin and his selfish foreign policy than real social revolution. The PCE were counter-revolutionaries in every sense.

[Red October]

Dumbass:


The CNT and the POUM were not on the same side as the communists. The Spanish Communist Party (PCE) were always more interested in reversing real working and peasant class economic/social gains, stamping the authority of Stalin and his selfish foreign policy than real social revolution. The PCE were counter-revolutionaries in every sense.

I agree, but a certain amount of credit for defeating the social revolution goes to the CNT leadership itself. Their collaborationism helped a lot in the ultimate selling out and destruction of the worker's gains.

[Norseman]

I'd go with the Friends of Durruti.

[communard resolution]

My impression is that the whole thing was a farce and that all the anti-fascist groups contributed to it becoming a farce in their own ways.

Sectarianism isn't unknown to fascists either, but at least they know when to stick together and when to engage in petty quarrels among themselves. They win, we lose.

[Norseman]

With fascism, nobody wins, except the guy who gets the crown.

[Hessian Peel]

The fascists.

[communard resolution]

The fascists.

File under famous last words.

[JorgeLobo]

No - that would be closer to communism where the standard of living for all is reduced to that of the lowest personal - and all the leaders enjoy their dachas, capitalist imports and other perks.

[TheRedRevolutionary]

Easy: the communists.

[Trystan]

Either the POUM or the anarchists. Probably the anarchists.

[TheRedRevolutionary]

The fascists.

Are you serious?

[TheRedRevolutionary]

6 people are assholes! :mad:

Anyway, I'm not sure if it matters which losing side one would join. I voted 'communists', but it would be the International Brigades to be precise.

EDIT: 9 people now :confused:

[Plagueround]

To be honest I am still studying the history of the Spanish Civil War, but given what I know I'd say CNT/FAI.

[joseph_kay]

The Iron Column!
an anarchist militia, fighting for revolution, not the republic. One of their first acts was to abolish a local prison and free the prisoners, many of whom went on to join the column.
One of their members also published what might be my favorite essay from the spanish civil war, "A day Mournful and Overcast".

the text of that essay is available online but i guess i cant post links until i have 25 or more posts, so you will just have to search for it yourself.

cheers.
-Joseph

[JorgeLobo]

Interesting choice, Joseph. As I'm sure you know, mwe know any deserted when the unit was militarized apparently putting principles above country. This was the dynamic that characterized much of the the movement and in the broader context certainly contributed to the eventual military failure of the republic.

Would you have deserted?

[joseph_kay]

Interesting choice, Joseph. As I'm sure you know, mwe know any deserted when the unit was militarized apparently putting principles above country. This was the dynamic that characterized much of the the movement and in the broader context certainly contributed to the eventual military failure of the republic.

Would you have deserted?


most likely, yes.

[reddevil]

POUM, so i could hang with orwell.

[Devrim]

As I'm sure you know, we know many deserted when the unit was militarized apparently putting principles above country.
Actually, it is the job of revolutionaries to put principles/class above country.

Devrim

[Armand Iskra]

Id rather join the Communists or the group of Durruti.
and If Che or Mao lives at that time, there would be a PROTRACTED PEOPLES WAR then, perhaps the republic would have won.

[reddevil]

who the hell voted for the right wing rebels?

[Patchd]

Would have fought alongside any anti-fascist, although would have been perturbed if I were around the Comintern lot...still, I voted CNT-FAI, however POUM was not too dissimilar except in ideology.

[RadicalRadical]

I would join the POUM.

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

The Communists off course!

[4 Leaf Clover]

basque

people say it was supposed to be first anarchistic state :)

[Sentinel]

CNT-FAI
Absolutely this.

[Comandante]

Can someone give me a brief description of this groups? I don't know much, as you can see but am willing to learn- :blushing:

[Enragé]

CNT-FAI/Friends Of Durruti

[Sasha]

idealogicly i would say somewhere between the POUM and the CNT-FAI.
but since my family who where alive back then actualy did fight in spain (one brother of my grandpa even got killed in batle) with the international brigades it would be safe to say i would have probely ended up there also.

[Os Cangaceiros]

CNT-FAI.

The POUM anti-Stalinist Marxist contigent seemed all right, as well.

[Charles Xavier]

Those who fought for the republic, I would support, those who fought for sectarian interests which didn't benefit their own class such as the POUM definitely not. My party sent fighters on the Mackenzie-Papineau Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackenzie-Papineau_Battalion)

[Os Cangaceiros]

"Sectarian interests"?

You mean like torturing Andres Nin to death?

[Charles Xavier]

"Sectarian interests"?

You mean like torturing Andres Nin to death?


Wow, read more fiction, communists don't torture.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Wow, read more fiction, communists don't torture.

I'm just going to assume that this was a joke.

My point is that in the larger scheme of things, the POUM were no more sectarian than the other factions, and indeed their sectarianism was mostly against those who hated and wished to destroy them.

[Charles Xavier]

I'm just going to assume that this was a joke.

My point is that in the larger scheme of things, the POUM were no more sectarian than the other factions, and indeed their sectarianism was mostly against those who hated and wished to destroy them.

Funny I remember reading the POUM split from the Republican forces and started attacking them after their demands weren't met.

[Yehuda Stern]

I also remember seeing movies about aliens destroying Earth, but that doesn't mean it actually happened.

[Charles Xavier]

I also remember seeing movies about aliens destroying Earth, but that doesn't mean it actually happened.

It was called Independence Day, which is a true story based on the actual events leading up to the Successful bourgeioisie revolution in the United States.

[Madvillainy]

cnt/fai :)

[LOLseph Stalin]

I'm not fully familiar with all those groups as I only learned about the Spanish Civil War briefly, but I chose the Communists even though they lost to the damn Fascists. Why not? :P

I can't believe people actually voted for the right-wing rebels. O_O Why the hell are those people here?

[Pogue]

It was called Independence Day, which is a true story based on the actual events leading up to the Successful bourgeioisie revolution in the United States.

Seriously, whoever you are, educate yourself, please.

[Charles Xavier]

Seriously, whoever you are, educate yourself, please.

Seriously whoever you are, judge not lest ye be judged. So be respectful and comradely.

[More Fire for the People]

POUM / CNT-FAI. Fuck Stalinism.

[iloveche]

i concur

[gorillafuck]

CNT/FAI, as well as the POUM. Anything to fight stalinism.

[Brigadlsta]

International Brigades, so i voted socialists as it doesnt really give a option for them.
If the republican forces had embraced stalinist help then they could have won the war. Fight Fascism first, Each other later.

[Comrade B]

I think the only reason for the high number on "The Communists" is because it has the title "The Communists" rather than "The Stalinists". The POUM was also communist, and many of the soldiers for the Republic were as well.

[Liberte ou la Mort]

Nothing like a bit of jingositic fervour to get young men running at machine guns.

[JacobVardy]

Seriously, can we have a revolutionary tribunal? I'd like to know who voted for the fash.

Plus, every since reading "A Tale of Two Cites" in school, i have wanted to be in a People's Court.

Also, i know i should STFN, but anyone know of any Aussie's fighting in the International Brigades?

[jaffe]

International Brigades, so i voted socialists as it doesnt really give a option for them.
If the republican forces had embraced stalinist help then they could have won the war. Fight Fascism first, Each other later.
That's the biggest mistake CNT made in the Spanish civil war.

[Killfacer]

CNT, fight the fascists but don't let the Stalinist scum shit all over you.

[ZeroNowhere]

CNT/FAI.
Anarchists are, in fact, socialist, and thus communist. How interesting. Well, some people would use 'communism' to mean something incompatible with anarcho-individualism, but that's fairly irrelevant here.

"They too were storming heaven,
Do you think they fought in vain?"

[OneNamedNameLess]

I would have been happy to fight with any of these organisations.

However, I'm going to go for the POUM simply due to Orwell's involvement. :)

[zider]

CNT - FAI :thumbup:

[Cory]

P.O.U.M aall the way!! :hammersickle: :trotski: :hammersickle:

[Invincible Summer]

CNT - FAI. Although I would like to have hung out with Orwell, I'm no Trot.

[Blackscare]

The POUM had swallowed up a small Trotskyist party, but wasn't mostly Trot I believe. I think they were just a more general Marxist party that was actually placing emphasis on revolution, as opposed to the "Communists", who were only looking out for old Joe Stalin's interests.


That said, I voted CNT as well, because I'm an anarchist but also because they were the most popular movement and were very grass roots in nature. I'd try to make anarchist thought heard in the time leading up to revolution, but in the end I'll settle for any basically libertarian movement with the largest popular support. Not that CNT wasn't anarchist, I just think that the movement with the most proletarian participation is the least likely to fail, in this case it's anarchist but in another it may well be orthodox Marxist or Luxemburg inspired.

[9]

CNT, hands down.

[an apple]

Ha, to those who selected 'the Republic itself':
Epic fail!

I chose the Communists, but the POUM would have been interesting (I've read a bit too much of Homage to Catalonia!)

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Well, assuming I could go back in time and know what we do I'd join the POUM, though most Americans who went in the International Brigades were aligned with the Soviets. I'm pretty sure this was due to the fact that the Commies were well funded from Russia.

I wish I could have taken part, though maybe not on the front line. Perhaps the most distressing thing I took from Homage to Catalonia was the lack of good arms the troops on the front lines had (especially compared to the civil guards). What I do know is that when the revolution comes to Texas that will not be a mistake made again :lol:

[Stranger Than Paradise]

This time in history is the one I'd most like to go back to. I would have loved to be there, join the CNT. I would have loved to see how it had all worked.

[x359594]

For me, the Friends of Durruti but it's not given as a voting option.

[RebelDog]

For me, the Friends of Durruti but it's not given as a voting option.

But you first would have had to have been a CNT member anyway to join the FOD.

[Rjevan]

Definitely the communists... but the Basques would have been an option, too.

[Hoxhaist]

Communists!!! A Spain allied with Stalin would have stopped Nazi aggression before 1945

[GracchusBabeuf]

Cnt-fai ftw!

[pastradamus]

The Workers Party of Marxist Unification or the POUM definetly. :D

[Angry Young Man]

Communists!!! A Spain allied with Stalin would have stopped Nazi aggression before 1945
So would have aiding a revolution in Germany, but that's socialism in one country for you.

[LeninBalls]

So would have aiding a revolution in Germany, but that's socialism in one country for you.

Yeah, revolution was clearly in high spirits in the air in Germany, 1936.

[RedAnarchist]

I'm going to close this thread as it's over a year old. If you want to make a new one, go ahead and do so.

[F9]

The question is why was this thread moved in chit-chat in first place?:confused:His possition is in the History forum, as have been a year long now!