From Egypt

[Regina]

Okay well im 18 year old Egyptian studying political science
read Marx's book actually Marx is what my midterm is going to be on thats kinda freaking me out but Im fine..
Egypt is supposedly a Socialist country but thats just BS its purely run by capital and private property because in my opinion under capitalism your just one more person suffering but the level of equality in communism is what people really need..
money doesnt talk it swears as Bob Dylan said in song!!

[Neutrino]

Welcome.

[RedAnarchist]

Hi, welcome to RevLeft:)

[INDK]

Welcome.


read Marx's book

What one?

[Regina]

the communist manifesto

[Faux Real]

Welcome comrade! First person on the boards from Egypt I think...

What do you think of Gamal Abdel Nasser and his ideology?

[RedAnarchist]

I'll have to edit the RevLeft Members Map - http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft-members-map-t69627/index.html

[Regina]

What do you think of Gamal Abdel Nasser and his ideology?


Im actually reading his philosophy of the revolution right now, but I still have a long way to go.

Before I speak of Nasser's ideology, I just want to have it on record that I said that I do not believe that the coup he and his friends made was a true revolution, it lacked many key elements like for example support from the people. It was nothing but a military operation that was so ridged and juvenile but was pulled off simply because its purpose was to overthrow a shallow simplistic and an even more juvenile leader like King Farouk.

That was NOT a revolution, in fact the last revolution that was witnessed in Egypt took place over 80 years ago in 1919, where the People actually formed an integral part of it. What happened in 1952 was a military take over and a coup d'etat, and the ensuing chaos became a totalitarian regime similar to that of the Third Reich, complete with all the claims and ideals praised by that regime, for instance: Arab Unity & a greater Arab nation resemble the dreams for a Greater German State & Living Space, a powerful charismatic leader in Nasser is equivalent to Adolf Hitler.

However, it is true that the Aswan "High" Dam was not built in the King's reign and it is a remarkable engineering achievement (the construction itself and being able to save the Nile water), but we must also consider it's numerous drawbacks (such as decreased fertility in exchange for poor power production) and from them understand that careful planning and strategy are more important than just absolute charisma, arrogance and ignorance.

Personally I believe what was achieved by the 1952 coup d'etat was the corruption of the Egyptian People. Since that year, Egyptian production has started it's decay until we have reached our current pitiful state in all fields: industry, arts, music, social ideals & morals...

[Faux Real]

Im actually reading his philosophy of the revolution right now.
I've wanted to read that one but all of the libraries here don't carry it for some reason...

Before I speak of Nasser's ideology, I just want to have it on record that I said that I do not believe that the coup he and his friends was a true revolution, it lacked many key elements like for example support from the people. It was nothing but a military operation that was so ridged and juvenile but was pulled off simply because its purpose was to overthrow a shallow simplistic and an even more juvenile leader like King Farouk.Right, it wasn't a movement from below, let alone 'true revolution'. A bit of an anomaly in that the military coup led to greater concessions to the people rather than suppression, albeit the latter was the case for the MB and Said Qutb. I heard somewhere that King Farouk couldn't even speak Arabic, is this true?

In his philosophy of a revolution, Nasser’s thesis is based on three circles, which are

1- The Arab World
2- Africa
3- The Muslim World. That’s all I got to just the main idea but when I finish reading the pamphlet I’ll let you know what I think. ;) [/quote]Sounds good, can't wait! :)

[Regina]

I heard somewhere that King Farouk couldn't even speak Arabic, is this true?


King Farouk is one of or probably is Nasser's greatest victim. He was not at all a good politician but was rather a man with a good heart who did not necessarily do the right for the country but certainly wanted to.

King Farouk was Egyptian, his father was half Egyptian and his mother (Queen Nazli) was Egyptian a commoner in fact so that makes Farouk three quarters Egyptian he spoke Arabic very well and both his wives were Egyptian commoners. He was just a case of being at wrong place at the wrong time. The fact that he did not use the British troops or his Royal Guards to crush this coup says a lot about him as a peaceful person.

Do not get me wrong Im not by any means a royalist or a fan of King Farouk, he was the lesser of two evils and its apparent how much Egypt has suffered since he left.

One more thing about Nasser and King Farouk, after Nasser settled in power and the Egyptian people started to realize his reality they started again to rally behind the king so Nasser sent a member of the secret services to kill the king in Rome and was successful in poisoning the 45-year-old King's food. It really gets to me how distorted our history has become... they have rewritten all of it.
I recommend you this book actually:
"A king betrayed: the ill-fated reign of Farouk of Egypt by Adel M. Sabit."

And do not worry your not missing a lot by not reading Nasser’s philosophy.
I think someone has written it for him anyway!

[Dimentio]

Well, a state could per definition not be socialist since socialism per definition means that the working class control the means of production, not the state.

[Faux Real]

King Farouk is one of or probably is Nasser's greatest victim. He was not at all a good politician but was rather a man with a good heart who did not necessarily do the right for the country but certainly wanted to. I could say the same for Nasser too, unless he has a very hidden negative side and even the independent media here gets him wrong!

Sorry to hear about your father in the other thread, under which president was he imprisoned?

King Farouk was Egyptian, his father was half Egyptian and his mother (Queen Nazli) was Egyptian a commoner in fact so that makes Farouk three quarters Egyptian he spoke Arabic very well and both his wives were Egyptian commoners. He was just a case of being at wrong place at the wrong time. The fact that he did not use the British troops or his Royal Guards to crush this coup says a lot about him as a peaceful person.I thought Farouk was Albanian and that there hadn't been a native Egyptian in power of the country for more than 2 thousand years? I thought the reason for not using the British troops was because they had already been quite unpopular among both the royal family and the people simply because of their presence. As for being peaceful, Nasser did not want a war with Israel let alone try to provoke one, they raided the Egyptian air force preemptively. It was somewhat like the circumstances were out of Farouk's hands when the British forced him to support them in WWII after initially favoring the Axis powers.

Do not get me wrong Im not by any means a royalist or a fan of King Farouk, he was the lesser of two evils and its apparent how much Egypt has suffered since he left. The repercussions of Nasser as president weren't completely his fault. I agree that the imprisonment of the brotherhood after having played an important part in anti-colonial struggle was not something to be lauded. But he did reduce poverty greatly, in establishing better social services, supported the Palestinians and nationalized key industries (as well as the Suez, although that was greatly due to western pressure).

It is a shame how his successors abandoned his original line of thinking and have been in power just for the sake of being in power. I'm sure he wouldn't approve of them, just like how the Ba'ath parties have all abandoned the orignal principles of socialism, equality, and so on.

One more thing about Nasser and King Farouk, after Nasser settled in power and the Egyptian people started to realize his reality they started again to rally behind the king so Nasser sent a member of the secret services to kill the king in Rome and was successful in poisoning the 45-year-old King's food. It really gets to me how distorted our history has become... they have rewritten all of it.
I recommend you this book actually:
"A king betrayed: the ill-fated reign of Farouk of Egypt by Adel M. Sabit."
I didn't know about that assassination attempt. But I'll be sure to look up that book, thanks for that!

And do not worry your not missing a lot by not reading Nasser’s philosophy.
I think someone has written it for him anyway!
Haha, yes I'm sure it's not a groundbreaking piece of work in anyway, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone else did write it for him. :p

[Regina]

I could say the same for Nasser too, unless he has a very hidden negative side and even the independent media here gets him wrong!

Sorry to hear about your father in the other thread, under which president was he imprisoned?

Actually, my father was imprisoned in period between 1984 to 1986 that was under Mubarak. I am sure Nasser did not harbor and cruel intentions however he was blinded by the power and too concerned only with his immediate inferiors and with purging the then very popular Muslim Brotherhood. Many things have been done in Nasser’s name and although he has not made many of these decisions, he let them happen. One very big mistake Nasser has done that he still pays the price dearly for today, is rewriting the Egyptian history to his own liking adding and omitting as he pleases this has hurt his reputation severely and allowed people especially Royalists to question his every intention.




I thought Farouk was Albanian and that there hadn't been a native Egyptian in power of the country for more than 2 thousand years? I thought the reason for not using the British troops was because they had already been quite unpopular among both the royal family and the people simply because of their presence. As for being peaceful, Nasser did not want a war with Israel let alone try to provoke one, they raided the Egyptian air force preemptively. It was somewhat like the circumstances were out of Farouk's hands when the British forced him to support them in WWII after initially favoring the Axis powers.

Farouk’s grandfather Khedive Isma`il was Albanian. Actually, Farouk not being popular is a part that was pasted into history by Nasser, the first time the Egyptian people ever protested against Farouk was when he divorced the very much loved (even until today) Queen Farida. By peaceful I meant that he did not want to spill Egyptian blood and gave in easily the whole Coup took 10 hours to seal! And the leader of the coup General Najeeb (another man written off history by Nasser) the General’s last words to King Farouk were “I am sorry” ! It is true that Farouk was in favor of the Axis powers but during the critical situation in ’52, it was in the British army’s best interest to support Farouk.





The repercussions of Nasser as president weren't completely his fault. I agree that the imprisonment of the brotherhood after having played an important part in anti-colonial struggle was not something to be lauded. But he did reduce poverty greatly, in establishing better social services, supported the Palestinians and nationalized key industries (as well as the Suez, although that was greatly due to western pressure).

It is a shame how his successors abandoned his original line of thinking and have been in power just for the sake of being in power. I'm sure he wouldn't approve of them, just like how the Ba'ath parties have all abandoned the orignal principles of socialism, equality, and so on.

I didn't know about that assassination attempt. But I'll be sure to look up that book, thanks for that!

Haha, yes I'm sure it's not a groundbreaking piece of work in anyway, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone else did write it for him.

Its almost an unwritten rule every new pharaoh comes to power and the first job on his little laundry list is to erase all the work of his predecessor and possibly make false statements to downplay the predecessor’s role. In the wake of the Palestinian holocaust, I have to disagree with you about Nasser helping Palestine lets not forget ’67. Nasser wasn’t all that bad. Nobody is all bad but I feel his bad slightly more than his good.

[Faux Real]

Ah, thanks for that brief history lesson. I hold about the same opinion as you on him, just think that for all his faults he was slightly more positive and served as a unifying figure among people in the region as opposed to the divisive dictators, monarchs and western imposed puppets that are still thriving.

In any case I'm glad to have another well-researched person like yourself aboard the forums. :)

[Regina]

The thing about Nasser as I said before was that he had Hitler's charisma and he promised beaten down people to fulfill their life long dream of sovereignty over themselves which was just total crap! Because all he did was to replace one King with 12 others and 12 are, his comrades that still hold positions of power.


He is no doubt the father or Arabic nationalism but in my opinion that nationalism is the exact thing that delivered, us here today with 86 Gazaians killed. He dreamt of the project “The Big Middle East” and until today, Lebanon still suffers the consequences of the ridicules dream and Sudan was not ready to gain its independence and now Darfur is the mess of the Arab world. That cursed word Arab nationalism has hurt Arabs more than it has done them good.


Nasser might have had a good head upon his shoulder but little proof is given to support this argument. Day by day, he is discredited in Egypt and day-by-day Egyptians find new outlets to study their history that has been distorted by Nasser and his friends. It happens now everyday it sickening how all the supposedly truths that we were brought up to learn adds up to one big lie which is the fake God-like image of Nasser. Nasser was a master of manipulation just watch footage of him crying after losing the 67 war it makes me sick how fake the “cries” are nonetheless Egyptians still fell for it and forgot that Israel was at the wall of Cairo!!!!

I just wish upon my countrymen to wake up and realize that this so-called revolution has doomed us all. Out of 80 million Egyptians today 54% live under the poverty line, do you know how many people that is?? It pains my heart that the only thing that brings happiness to the Egyptian people is our Football champions that have just recently won the African Cup of Nations for the sixth time. I cried watching how simple people ran to the narrow streets in Egypt and cheered and when asked why be so happy many simply answer “winning is the only thing that brings us happiness”.

And even for champions that have defeated such as the Cameroon and the Cote De Ivories. They are still trapped in Egypt with no hopes of playing on international fields, why? The answer is pretty simple, Arab Nationalism has just struck again!!

[blackstone]

Welcome aboard my African comrade.