Malte

[Forever capitalism]

I tried to post in the general political topics and found i was barred to because of my right wing inclinations. I was not going ot post anything related to the debate capitalism vs socialism as there already is a separate forum for it. I think everybody should have access to all forums as long as they obey the rules that you have set out. If somebody violates these rules then deal with them individually don't let everybody suffer. I think this is extremely unfair and harms debate and the spread of information from one person to another.

[Guest]

Hhahahahahaha funny ass Capitalist complaining that something in lifes unfair. . . .wow the irony behind that

[Capitalist]

The first step of communism is banning the freedom of speech.

[peaccenicked]

The first step to becoming a dalek
is repeating ''I obey, I obey''

[Derar]

The first step of communism is getting rid of Capitalists !

[Rosa]

For Cap: capies may have deconstructive influence in constructive discussions betw leftists.
And I suppose that you have enough media to spred your wiews, don't you?
I suppose that you want to low the tensions betw capies and leftists,...why don't you try giving media space to some leftists? So that citizens may stop being afraid of "BAD BAD SOCIALISM".
you're the banning ones.

[I Will Deny You]

Forever Capitalism: There is only one right-winger that I can think of who made intelligent posts, didn't go off-topic, and wasn't an asshole. If he were here, then I wouldn't mind if he were allowed to post anywhere except for the Commie Club. But he only made two or so posts, and then he left. So if YOU can be responsible then I have no problem with it, but at the time this forum was created there wasn't a single capitalist who came here often and wasn't an idiot.

[Sasafrás]

Quote: from Forever capitalism on 4:30 am on Mar. 19, 2002
I think everybody should have access to all forums as long as they obey the rules that you have set out.Isn't one of the rules he set out that right-wings not post in any forum other than "Socialism vs. Capitalism"?

OK, I agree that righties be allowed to post in "Chit-Chat" and "Lounge," so long as they don't post anything political (in other words, off topic) there. I think that's already settled. I absolutely NEVER EVER want right-wingers to even be able to read posts in the Commie Club though.

[Forever capitalism]

I was actually seeking a response from Malte about this issue. We don't always turn everything into a capitalism vs socialism debate. We have a range of opinions on a rage of issues including ones that you are discussing in the General Political Topics and others. This forum is set up for discussion from a wide ranging opinions. Restricting one to a forum that sees them debating against 80 times the amount of communists isn't always attractive.

[Imperial Power]

Forever I think of it as a victory. They couldn't keep the fantasy alive with people reminding them of common sense.

[Edelweiss]

FC, the rules are very clear I think.
We can talk about posts in Chit Chat or the Lounge, but I think that most members don't want any post by you or by your cappie friends in the GPT forum.

[Forever capitalism]

Malte why wouldn't communists want to hear our opinions, because of our right wing inclinations. That is discrimination. So if we were communists then and only then would we be allowed to discuss issues such as terrorism, osama bin laden and even che himself that is discussed in the general political topics. It is extremely poor that you have decided to ban our opinions because of our ideology when topics that we want to discuss in other forums aren't about ideology at all. Can you please explain that.

[Forever capitalism]

If you deny people the right to post in all forums because of their ideologies, then why do you let Stalinists post and not us?

[Sir Galahad]

Are so called cappies and right wingers allowed to view other forums?

[Forever capitalism]

Yes but only that. We are spectators.

[MJM]

It's only because certain capis are annoying.
The concessions have been made time and time again but the rules get broken. The rules were largely ignored by all up until not long ago when someone started trolling. I'm sure you can post as a guest if the urge is that great - I imagine some capis have been doing this already.

[Forever capitalism]

Alright let's start over and have access to all forums like everybody else. We shouldnt be denied access because of our ideology especially when we are talking about subjects and topics in the chit chat section for instance. Come on Malte i don't see why you should ban us. We are civilised. Why don't you punish people individually if they violate any of your rules. I think that is fair. Don't you?

P.S. i don't think that we would seek access to the commie club or be granted it. I am referring to the other forums including socialism vs capitalism

[Edelweiss]

There are thousands of other forums were you can discuss about BinLaden or whatever your want. This is and stays a leftist community and I'm not and most others aren't interested in dicsussion with you outside this forum.
As I already said, we can talk about posts in Chit Chat, but even there many members don't want to see you.

[El Che]

Stop wineing FC you big crybaby.

[TheDerminator]

Malte,

Only speaking for myself.
Seems to me that the community has to be consistent. If we have a forum for BORGS, then it reflects the necessity to go beyond just leftist sectarianism, and I am in favour of that.
I do not agree with vox that BORGS should be banned from the forums. There are enough inward looking sects in the world.
All the same a balance has to be maintained, because there are some forums where the BORGS are just going to sidetrack the debate into monotonously spouting prejudices, and we would be egotistical to try to convert them one by one in the forums. That is not how a socialist movement worthy of the name works.
Still, I don't thinik chit-chat or the lounge is an equivalent of General Politics, and I do not see why there could not be simultaneous postings of new Threads in Socialist vs Capitalism related to Gen. Politics even though we keep them out of that forum.
It is not as if there is a great level of debate in the Socialist vs Capitalist Forum, and extra stuff from Gen. Politics would in my view liven up the Forum. A Forum, can help sharpen up the debating skills of socialists and anarchists. The point is not that they have nothing to say to us that we cannot pick up on TV, but that the act of engagement helps to improve the quality of future debates.


May the Force be with U!

[peaccenicked]

what I find happens is that you are following the course of a left wing debate then a right winger comes in with an inane question, like, 'Surely America is doing the right thing?' No body answers and it is just a nuisance
because it in reality disrupts our debates.
here the capis are free to be themseves, totally inane
and vacuous. general politics can be raised here because, all a capi needs to do is quote from there
and make what point he or she 'needs' to.
it is billed as a left forum and this was a measure taken
to keep it a left forum.
I still cant get over the down right cheek of becoming a member of CHE LIVES to promote clearly
antithetical views. Most of our capi ''guests'' have some respect and only wish to make the odd point if something irks them. the capis here have gatecrashed
and infiltrated the site and became members.
WHY? To prove their way is better than ours.
It is pathetic.



(Edited by peaccenicked at 8:54 pm on Mar. 20, 2002)

[Moskitto]

I'm building a message board which I want people to discuss what the hell they like on, except the server it's hosted on has died for the past few days.

[Forever capitalism]

Malte if you want to have forums that discuss any issues even relating to communist revolutionaires such as Che Guevara i don't see why we would be banned. It doesn't make sense. Why ban us in forums that discuss school/books we are reading and general chit chat because of our right wing inclinations that have nothing to do with the topics we seek entry into. If you notice we are the least abusive or insulting of the members on this board.
Alot of people also complain that we equate socialism to stalinism and they repudiate and loathe such a system. However you let Stalinists in all forums though their political ideologies differ to yours. We are in the same boat except do not adhere to a system violate and oppressive by nature. We seek equality and not discrimmination.
For without us there wouldn't be no socialism vs capitalist forum.

[Son of Scargill]

The point is that one of your pro-capitalist friends spammed the board big time.It was a huge waste of time and space.Most members here don't want to go through that shit again,and neither would you probably.The fact that you're tolerated here shows more freedom of speech than most pro-capitalist boards,which either delete leftists posts or ban them outright.
As Malte and others have said previously,this IS a leftist website,and has f' all to do with your freedom of speech.That should be obvious,but apparently it is not,for the same accusations rise up time and time again.You seem to believe that you have a god given right to post here,yet at the same time you are defending private property,copyrights,patents,intellectual copyrights,etc.ect.You can't have it both ways,demanding freedom here,yet defending a system that limits freedoms elsewhere.Do you get my drift?We are working in a system that we inherited,and has tied our hands behind our backs repeatedly over the decades with mis-education,half truths and downright lies at times,and I for one really don't care about this forum.It's just the same crap that I hear everyday,and have done for 30 years.
Anyway,as MJM has said.if you feel that strongly about something,post as a guest and sign it.That shouldn't be too hard for you.

[Forever capitalism]

Why does our ideology matter when we are discussing matters such as school in the chit chat section? If you think that about capitalism because it somehow denies ones right though it allows a person to own property, start a business then how do you think socialism in comparison is freedom loving when in socialism a person subordinates himself to the all powerful state without having the ability to own anything. He gets told where to work, for whom, which one party you can follow, not to publish any anti-government pamphlets or texts and abide by the dictatorship.
Back to the subject if difference of ideology matters so much why do you let Stalinists to debate?

[pastradamus]

I myself have put foward the request of a possible capie$ club,this might seem weird for a commie.But maybe when yer all working together ye might produce an argument worth debating over!

[Capitalist]

The first step of communism is getting rid of Capitalists !

start with unfair tribunals!

then get rid of freedom of protest
then freedom of speech
ban right to unions and assembly
ban free media
ban religion
ban right to bear arms
ban right to open education
ban all other political parties
ban free elections

so on... & so on.

Ban freedom with punishment of death and severe prison sentences.

Whatever happen to the Cubans that broke into the Mexican Embassy?

Where is the world public outcry for these political prisoners in Cuba?

Why does the public seem to care about Taliban prisoners at Guantamano Bay? - Yet totally ignore the rights of good people seeking refuge from Fidel's communist tyranny?

What has happened to these people?

Does the liberal press care?

Does anyone care?

[Thich Quang Duc]

Well seeing as capitalists control pretty much the rest of the whole internet, and then they complain that they can't post on a socialist message board. They are just trying to take over every thing ain't they??

God forgive the United States of America.

[Sasafrás]

Hey, Thich Quang Duc, you wouldn't happen to be Vietnamese, would you? The name gives me that impression..

:) Peace & Love

[Forever capitalism]

Malte what is your response to the suggestion that i have proposed. Maybe we can compromise...

[RedRevolutionary87]

ok ive had it up to here with your compremise, capitalism started out all inicent, but now it has us tied and chained up againsst a wall, and all the system offers is compremise to us, gives us our fake freedom of speech (one can speak as long as his speach is not a threat to us) this is a leftist forum and you are lucky you can post here.

[Guest]

I can understand both sides of the argument.

On one hand the capitalist right-wingers want to be able to discuss other issues and be treated generally like normal people

But on the other hand this is a "leftist community" for left wing people to exchange ideas etc

I think the capitalist people should be allowed to post on other forums because banning them seems to go against communist ideology - remember if a revolution were to occur, the capitalist must be dealt with in some way they cannot be "banned" from society....

[PunkRawker677]

if a revolution were to occur, there would be no capitalists.. but - i think cappies should be able to post in chit-chat and lounge. As has been said before, if you wish to discuss a topic being discussed in general politics section, just talk about the same thing in this part of the forum..

its not really a like-dislike thing.. we are leftists, and this is what this forum is for - to discuss our leftist beliefs, ideas, and opinions. because we couldnt just tell cappies they arent welcome here at all, a seperate forum was made where they could post and have the same conversations as the other forum - only in the socialism vs. cappie section, everything becomes a debate (nobody wants politic section becoming a big debating ground, thats what this is for)..

[Forever capitalism]

I respect your claims that this is a leftist forum and you should be entitled to all forums and debates. However banning people because of their right wing inclinations into forums such as Chit Chat, Lounge is ridiculous and discrimmination.

[PunkRawker677]

i believe malte specifically said that he would consider that, and would talk more to you about that..

and, thank you for understanding FC, thank you for being open-minded, and not automatically thinking we are attacking you cause you are capitalist.. we just wish to share similar ideas in our own little enviroment..

thanks =)

a decent cappie.. who would have thought (that was a joke)

[Forever capitalism]

Malte i think you need to clean up the abuse and insults evident in nearly all the posts of this forum. Alot of people don't come here to debate but rather swear and abuse others because of their opinions. This harms debate and is not a pleasant atmosphere where one can exchange their opinions on a topic. I seriously recommend you consider implementing tougher rules to discourage swearing and abuse in this forum. Che-lives is an excellent site with a great community but with no rules that stop people from acting immature and swearing, then it is really heading down hill.

[Forever capitalism]

What are your thoughts on this Malte. I'm not asking to change everything but to implement some rules that curb such behaviour. It is ridiculous how it is spiralling out of control. I trust you will take the necessary steps that will ultimately preserve debate and exchange of opinions. Thank you for listening to my request

[TheDerminator]

In my view the crude sexual metaphor is a legitimate form of language, because a phrase such as " that is a lot of fucking reactionary hypocrisy, you fucking ice-cold BORG bastard" can carry a certain weight and a certain force that a statement without the crude sexual metaphor does not carry.
I mean, your BORG society is fucking things up for most of the people on the planet. Doing it in a "gentelmanly" or "lady-like" manner, isn't going to make it any fucking nicer for those on the sharp end of your brutal mentality and brutalising society. The crude fucking brutality is mostly on your side, and just maybe you being so "pleasant" about it, does not cut any ice.
You are not as nice mannered as you think.
You are a brutal bastard as far as I can make out.

Be afraid, be very afraid...

Resistance is Futile!

May the Force be with U!

derminated

[guerrillaradio]

FC - Judging by your request to curb swearing, you are socially conservative as well as politically. Well although I am for you using any forum you wanna use, I don't want YOU telling ME what word I can't use. This is a leftist forum, you are here on our terms, not vice versa, and I reserve and cherish my right to say what the fuck I like.

As for insults, I only need to refer you back to a thread started by your good partner in crime, Imperial Power, which branded all leftists "morons". I don't care that there was no profanity, insults are insults, and if you wanna stop them, then maybe you should get your "comrades" to stop as well.