Che the killer?

[freakazoid]

Saw this posted on another site,


180 DOCUMENTED VICTIMS OF CHÉ GUEVARA IN CUBA: 1957 TO 1959
From: Armando M. Lago, Ph.D., Cuba. The Human Cost of Social Revolutions, unedited
Manuscript pending publication. Information provided by the TRUTH RECOVERY ARCHIVE ON CUBA
an undertaking of the FREE SOCIETY PROJECT, INC.
The exact number of Che’s Cuban victims has not been verified, but include people he personally
executed and those put to death under his orders. Che’s biographers consistently report that he sent
thousands to the firing squad. Over 4,000 deaths are documented to have taken place in Cuba, mostly
firing squad execution, in the first three years after Fidel Castro’s takeover (1959-1962). Che Guevara
was one of the regime’s chief executioners during this period and is said to have acknowledged ordering
"several thousand" executions. All took place without affording the victims fair trials and due process of law.
The following list is not exhaustive and only includes cases for which historic reference is known. Names are
cited as reported; dates and additional details for most are available. Combat deaths caused by Che in Cuba
and killings in countries where he led guerrilla operations have not been tallied.
14 executed by Che in the Sierra Maestra during the anti-Batista guerrilla struggle (1957-1958):
1. ARISTIDIO 2. MANUEL CAPITÁN 3. JUAN CHANG 4. “BISCO” ECHEVARRÍA 5. ECHEVARRÍA BROTHER #1
6. ECHEVARRÍA BROTHER #2 7. EUTIMIO GUERRA 8. DIONISIO LEBRIGIO 9. JUAN LEBRIGIO 10. “EL NEGRO” NÁPOLES
11. “CHICHO” OSORIO 12. ONE UNIDENTIFIED TEACHER (“EL MAESTRO) 13.-14. 2 UNIDENTIFIED PEASANTS
10 executed in Santa Clara at Che’s orders in only two days (January 1959):
1. RAMÓN ALBA 2. JOSÉ BARROSO 3. JOAQUÍN CASILLAS 4. FÉLIX CRUZ 5. ALEJANDRO GARCÍA OLAYÓN
6. HÉCTOR MIRABAL 7. J. MIRABAL 8. FÉLIX MONTANO 9. CORNELIO ROJAS 10. VILALLA
156 executed at La Cabaña Fortress prison at Che Guevara’s orders:
1. VILAU ABREU 2. HUMBERTO AGUIAR 3. GERMÁN AGUIRRE 4. PELAYO ALAYÓN 5. JOSÉ LUIS ALFARO
6. PEDRO ALFARO 7. MARIANO ALONSO 8. JOSÉ ALVARO 9. ANIELLA 10. MARIO ARES POLO
11. JOSÉ RAMÓN BACALLAO 12. CEVERINO BARRIOS 13. EUGENIO BÉCQUER 14. FRANCISCO BÉCQUER
15. RAMÓN BISCET 16. ROBERTO CALZADILLA 17. EUFEMIO CANO 18. JUAN CAPOTE FIALLO
19. ANTONIO CARRALERO 20. GERTRUDIS CASTELLANOS 21. JOSÉ CASTAÑO QUEVEDO 22. RAÚL CASTAÑO
23. EUFEMIO CHALA 24. JOSÉ CHAMACE 25. JOSÉ CHAMIZO 26. RAÚL CLAUSELL 27. ÁNGEL CLAUSELL
28. DEMETRIO CLAUSELL 29. JOSÉ CLAUSELL 30. ELOY CONTRERAS 31. ALBERTO CORBO 32. EMILIO CRUZ
33. JUAN FELIPE CRUZ 34. ORESTES CRUZ 35. HUMBERTO CUEVAS 36. CUNY 37. ANTONIO DE BECHE
38. MATEO DELGADO 39. ARMANDO DELGADO 40. RAMÓN DESPAIGNE 41. JOSÉ DÍAZ CABEZAS
42. ANTONIO DUARTE 43. RAMÓN FERNÁNDEZ OJEDA 44. RUDY FERNÁNDEZ 45. FERRÁN ALFONSO
46. SALVADOR FERRERO 47. VICTOR FIGUEREDO 48. EDUARDO FORTE 49. UGARDE GALÁN
50. RAFAEL GARCÍA MUÑIZ 51. ADALBERTO GARCÍA 52. ALBERTO GARCÍA 53. JACINTO GARCÍA
54. EVELIO GASPAR 55. ARMADA GIL Y DIEZ CABEZAS 56. JOSÉ GONZÁLEZ MALAGÓN 57. EVARISTO GONZÁLEZ
58. EZEQUIEL GONZÁLEZ 59. SECUNDINO GONZÁLEZ 60. RICARDO GRAO 61. BONIFACIO GRASSO
62. RICARDO JOSÉ GRAU 63. OSCAR GUERRA 64. JULIÁN HERNÁNDEZ 65. FRANCISCO HERNÁNDEZ LEYVA
66. ANTONIO HERNÁNDEZ 67. GERARDO HERNÁNDEZ 68. OLEGARIO HERNÁNDEZ 69. SECUNDINO HERNÁNDEZ
70. JESÚS INSUA 71. ENRIQUE IZQUIERDO 72. OSMÍN JORRÍN 73. SILVINO JUNCO 74. ENRIQUE LA ROSA
75. IGNACIO LASAPARLA 76. JESÚS LAZO 77. ARIEL LIMA LAGO 78. RAÚL LÓPEZ VIDAL 79. ARMANDO MAS
80. ENERLIO MATA 81. ELPIDIO MEDEROS 82. JOSÉ MEDINAS 83. JOSÉ MESA 84. FIDEL MESQUÍA
85. JUAN MILIÁN 86. FRANCISCO MIRABAL 87. LUIS MIRABAL 88. ERNESTO MORALES 89. PEDRO MOREJÓN
90. DR. CARLOS MUIÑO, MD. 91. CÉSAR NECOLARDES ROJAS 92. VICTOR NECOLARDES ROJAS 93. JOSÉ NUÑEZ
94. VITERBO O'RREILLY 95. FÉLIX OVIEDO 96. MANUEL PANEQUE 97. PEDRO PEDROSO 98. RAFAEL PEDROSO
99. DIEGO PÉREZ CUESTA 100. JUAN PÉREZ 101. DIEGO PÉREZ CRELA 102. JOSÉ POZO 103. EMILIO PUEBLA
104. ALFREDO PUPO 105. SECUNDINO RAMÍREZ 106. RAMÓN RAMOS 107. PABLO RAVELO 108. RUBÉN REY
109. MARIO RISQUELME 110. FERNANDO RIVERA 111. PABLO RIVERA 112. MANUEL RODRÍGUEZ
113. MARCOS RODRÍGUEZ 114. NEMESIO RODRÍGUEZ 115. PABLO RODRÍGUEZ 116. RICARDO RODRÍGUEZ
117. JOSÉ SALDARA 118. PEDRO SANTANA 119. SERGIO SIERRA 120. JUAN SILVA 121. FAUSTO SILVA
122. ELPIDIO SOLER 123. JESÚS SOSA BLANCO 124. RENATO SOSA 125. SERGIO SOSA 126. PEDRO SOTO
127. OSCAR SUÁREZ 128. RAFAEL TARRAGO 129. TEODORO TELLEZ CISNEROS 130. FRANCISCO TELLEZ
131. JOSÉ TIN 132. FRANCISCO TRAVIESO 133. LEONARDO TRUJILLO 134. TRUJILLO 135. LUPE VALDÉS BARBOSA
136. MARCELINO VALDÉS 137. ANTONIO VALENTÍN 138. MANUEL VÁZQUEZ 139. SERGIO VÁZQUEZ 140. VERDECIA
141. DÁMASO ZAYAS
*15 additional executions were reported by The New York Times (on 2/6/59, 2/8/59, 3/16/59, and 4/2/59),
but names are unknown.

I have never heard about this before, and I find it upsetting.What are your thoughts? Is this true? If so what was the reasoning for it? Do you think this was right?

[Dros]

Hell yeah Che killed people!

He wouldn't have been much of a revolutionary otherwise.

He tried and executed Bourgeois criminals.

[Sky]

Over 4,000 deaths are documented to have taken place in Cuba, mostly
firing squad execution, in the first three years after Fidel Castro’s takeover (1959-1962).

This is false. Data from studies on Cuba's legal system show that death sentences for political crimes from 1959-87 numbered 237 of which all but 21 were actually carried out. Since the single execution for a crime against state security in 1984 there have been no executions on a political basis. This data, obtained from the Cuban Government, is found in an Amnesty International report.

If you want to argue against executions on the basis of morality, then one can compare the execution of Batista's henchmen to those at Nurnberg. Without the executions, the population would surely have taken revenged themselves these brutal criminals as had happened in the anti-Machado rebellion. It was necessary for the Cuban Government to take such measures in order to preserve order. The death penalty had been applied on enemies of the people--The death penalty was imposed on enemies of the people--those who had killed, tortured, assassinated, and committed genocide during the war andcontinued to conspire against the revolution. Since these elements had supported and participated in the Batista puppet regime and received shelter in the United States and Falangist Spain, they can surely be regarded as traitors that had contacts with enemy nations.

[Dean]

Saw this posted on another site,



I have never heard about this before, and I find it upsetting.What are your thoughts? Is this true? If so what was the reasoning for it? Do you think this was right?

Che was a personality clearly obsessed with destruction. Though I agree with a lot of what he did, what he did in power is unavoidably wrong. Even if they were all "bourgeois criminals," the death penalty itself should not be carried out on imprisoned people. It's worth noting that Cuba has put a moratorium on the death penalty since 1988 or so.

[RNK]

Looks like someone took random names from a Mexican Phone Book. That, or Che kept inhumanly methodic reports on everything he did, which seems unlikely.

Also, "15 additional executions reported by the New York Times", lol

[Kropotesta]

Che also executed many anarchists and other politically minded people that took part in the revolution. Che was abit of a twat really.

[F9]

those shit are nothing more that shits!How can you have a REVOLUTION and you killed noone!Anyway those names are false just to destroy CHE fame!anyoone who was killed during revolution che had a reason to do it,to free cuba and protect himself and his parteners so i canot hear those craps they are saying!
HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE COMMANDANTE:che:

Fuserg9:star:

[RedAnarchist]

Of course he killed people, he fought a guerrilla war. I may not necessarily agree with him entirely, but its not like the Batista government or anyone else involved were angelic innocents.

[Jazzratt]

Pope the catholic?

[Colonello Buendia]

I like Che' alot because he was a genuinely good man who did what he did with the best intentions. However it is well known that he had a rather large obsession with the death penalty. Don't get me wrong... I have no problem in killing the enemy in a revolution but afterwards I wouldn't. depending on their position I'd put them in prison or let them go back to their families. call me soft but I'm strongly opposed to the death penalty

[Ele'ill]

I don't think the issue is looking at the semantics of history but looking at history on a broad scale. A lot of innocent lives are ended over the lust for control. Maybe we need to learn an alternative pattern of thought.

[freakazoid]

I am not against the killing during the battles, but the large executions without trials, if they are true. Kind of like what StateSUx said.

[Joby]

Executing people was about all Che could do right.

He failed at pretty much every other task he was put in charge of-Usually pretty miserably.


:che: Sucked.

[RGacky3]

Che had someting a lot of Revolutionaries (unfortunally I think) have.

Intense intense dedication that is void of human feeling and empathy, meaning so much dedication to the ends you don't care about the means. The Means and the Ends are tied and hand and hand.

Another thing to point out is that he neglected his family, maybe not a big issue when you look at the big picture, but I think its somewhat important, because it shows somewhat of an inbalance.

[Jazzratt]

He failed at pretty much every other task he was put in charge of-Usually pretty miserably.

Yeah. Except for surgery. And gaining popular support. And making inspiring speeches.

Yeah, he really did suck, eh?

[F9]

fascists and revolution tradors deserve nothing more than hunging or shooting!

Fuserg9:star:

[Ele'ill]

fascists and revolution tradors deserve nothing more than hunging or shooting!

Fuserg9:star:


But if the United States Government declared open season on dissent in the same fashion that you're describing, much of the left would be *****ing about atrocities and human rights violations.

[F9]

fascists human rights dont excist!And what you say it cant be done in true because they have no argument against!But fascist which WE want them dead we have a reason to want them dead!

Fuserg9:star:

[pusher robot]

But fascist which WE want them dead we have a reason to want them dead!

Fuserg9:star:

Well, congratualations. They now have a reason to want you dead. And personally, I couldn't begrudge them that.

[Kropotesta]

fascists and revolution tradors deserve nothing more than hunging or shooting!

Fuserg9:star:
your thing says anarchist communist, so why are you defending Che when he executed many anarchists?
also as an anarchist, shouldn't you oppose all forms of government?

[Bud Struggle]

fascists human rights dont excist!And what you say it cant be done in true because they have no argument against!But fascist which WE want them dead we have a reason to want them dead!

Fuserg9:star:

You either believe in human right or no rights at all. There is nothing in between.

As long as you accept that people are human beings first and political animals second you can have a reasonably fair system of justice, but once people become their politics--the purges and the gulags and the death camps follow.

[F9]

ohh.Now che had killed anarchists?ok.Men what are you saying?You are tryiing to drive me to madness?I am defending che because he fight for the revolution and always had in his mind the freedom of latin america!he fought capitalism ,america and those who get obstacles in his way to make revolution to free america!and what the hell FORMS OF GOVERMENT have to do if i like CHE?let me have my oppinions and you have your own we dissagree so let it here!

for the others:fascists are not humans SO they have no rights!Again my personal oppinion!

Fuserg9:star:

[Kropotesta]

ohh.Now che had killed anarchists?ok.

and what the hell FORMS OF GOVERMENT have to do if i like CHE?
Fuserg9:star:
yes he did.
well hitler did a pretty good job of gaining power in Germany, do you admire him aswell?

[F9]

men how can you compare che with hitler?
and i dont think you are waiting an answer!You know what everyone in this board would answer in this guestion, so you know the answer!

[Kropotesta]

men how can you compare che with hitler?
and i dont think you are waiting an answer!You know what everyone in this board would answer in this guestion, so you know the answer!
what are you chatting about?:confused:
I am wanting an answer actually

[F9]

you are asking me if i admire hitler?
the HARD answer is NO i thought it a little but i made my mind!:laugh:

Fuserg9:star:

[Bud Struggle]

men how can you compare che with hitler?
and i dont think you are waiting an answer!You know what everyone in this board would answer in this guestion, so you know the answer!

Well almost everyone. ;):lol:

[RGacky3]

ohh.Now che had killed anarchists?ok.Men what are you saying?You are tryiing to drive me to madness?I am defending che because he fight for the revolution and always had in his mind the freedom of latin america!he fought capitalism ,america and those who get obstacles in his way to make revolution to free america!and what the hell FORMS OF GOVERMENT have to do if i like CHE?let me have my oppinions and you have your own we dissagree so let it here!

Well its well known he killed Anarchists. You can have whatever opinions you want, but that does'nt mean they arn't contradictory and stupid and thus not at all to be taken seriously.


for the others:fascists are not humans SO they have no rights!Again my personal oppinion!


So whether or not a person is a Human with rights depends on their political beliefs? Again its your personal opinion, but its rediculous and silly.

[F9]

men i really liked your post!the conclusion is that i am stupid!:laugh:With a man who identifies as Counterrevolutionary what i can say about che?and to say again what i said che killed those who stand in his way of revolution!

Fuserg9:star:

[Kropotesta]

men i really liked your post!the conclusion is that i am stupid!:laugh:With a man who identifies as Counterrevolutionary what i can say about che?and to say again what i said che killed those who stand in his way of revolution!

Fuserg9:star:
no. I'm pretty sure the anarchists took part in the revolution.......

[F9]

thats way i doubt that he killed anarchys.He might killed few who betrayed rev although!

Fuserg9:star:

[Colonello Buendia]

The Anarchist joined columns etc. to help fight Batista, there weren't many though and they didn't have a formal organisation like the CNT

[Kropotesta]

thats way i doubt that he killed anarchys.He might killed few who betrayed rev although!

Fuserg9:star:
it's well known that he did.

[BIG BROTHER]

I admire and respect Che, but he was a guerrillero, so its obvious that wether that data is good or false he must've executed someone sooner or later, war even a revolution isn't always fair :(

But viva la revolucion! hasta la victoria siempre!

[freakazoid]

Che killed anarchists? Why?

[Joby]

Yeah. Except for surgery. And gaining popular support. And making inspiring speeches.

Yeah, he really did suck, eh?

All, right, he may have been a good surgeon. I'll give him that.

He failed as head of Agriculture in Cuba.
He failed as head of the Treasury in Cuba (or whatever post it was that he held)
He failed miserably at trying to mobilize people in the Congo.
He failed miserably at trying to mobilize people in Bolivia.

Being a good Orator isn't that important, extraordinary, or even that difficult.

[Joby]

You either believe in human right or no rights at all. There is nothing in between.

As long as you accept that people are human beings first and political animals second you can have a reasonably fair system of justice, but once people become their politics--the purges and the gulags and the death camps follow.

Let me just say, Great Post!

[Kropotesta]

Che killed anarchists? Why?
basically cos they he didn't agree with him. he also killed trotskyists

[Bud Struggle]

From my last cigar buying trip to Cuba.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/MercutioTomK/che.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/MercutioTomK/che2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/MercutioTomK/che3.jpg

[RedAnarchist]

Have they painted it on or is it a sculpture?

[Bud Struggle]

Have they painted it on or is it a sculpture?

Sculpture in a black metal. Quite minimalistic and quite brilliant and quite moving. On the other hand the "Monument to the Revolution" is as nasty as such things could get. Nothing that bad even in Moscow.

The cars are wonderful. America couldn't have frozen the 50's any better.

[ninjakik]

all who were executed summarily after the july 26th movement came into power and while still in the mountains were tried by members of the group on grounds of aither treason or counter-revolutionary actions all found guilty were shot on the spot in the mountains and killed by firing squad after there successful takeover. to add more if che was to kill without cause his entire nation would not still think of him as a hero this is all propaganda being fed to you through your democratic government trying to stomp on the name of a true communist and hero.