Racist mural in Belfast

[Dr Mindbender]

:scared:wow, i didnt know how bad it really was till i saw this...

http://photos.igougo.com/images/p38441-Belfast-Shankill_Mural.jpg

[Sankofa]

That's just disgusting.

What country is this....Britain, right?

[Dr Mindbender]

Well NI to be exact. On second inspection, the brown figure is actually supposed to be Gerry Adams wearing a celtic top. However the insinuation is that Irish catholics are 'dirty' hence the brown skin.

[Lector Malibu]

that's revolting to the core. They should have put a picture of Enoch Powell on the bull dogs shirt , would have made there intentions clearer!

[Sankofa]

Well NI to be exact. On second inspection, the brown figure is actually supposed to be Gerry Adams wearing a celtic top. However the insinuation is that Irish catholics are 'dirty' hence the brown skin.

The fact that people still have the mentality that brown skin is a symbol of inferiority makes this twice as worse.

[Dr Mindbender]

It makes me quite ashamed to occupy the same land as this vile poison.

I hope someone has taken it down, but i sadly doubt it. I actually know the location of this picture, I would attempt to sabotage it myself, but i very much doubt the local boneheads would allow me to leave with all my limbs intact.
:(

[Lector Malibu]

It makes me quite ashamed to occupy the same land as this vile poison.

I hope someone has taken it down, but i sadly doubt it. I actually know the location of this picture, I would attempt to sabotage it myself, but i very much doubt the local boneheads would allow me to leave with all my limbs intact.
:(

All you need is some cover of darkness and the ability to throw a bucket of paint

[Dr Mindbender]

thats the time when the paramilitaries have a tendency to hang out. If i go near that picture with a tin of paint I'll probably feel a 9mm pistol in the back of my head.

[Lector Malibu]

thats the time when the paramilitaries have a tendency to hang out. If i go near that picture with a tin of paint I'll probably feel a 9mm pistol in the back of my head.

I hear you.. Loyalist skum grrrrr

[Dr Mindbender]

Edit

[Lector Malibu]

Edit

oh just so you know I wasn't calling you loyalist skum;) So if they patrol late at night don't strike late at night. Also never under estimate the power of the obvious. People often overlook that. Scope it out. You can find a way.

[Dr Mindbender]

oh just so you know I wasn't calling you loyalist skum;) So if they patrol late at night don't strike late at night. Also never under estimate the power of the obvious. People often overlook that. Scope it out. You can find a way.
I like your optimism, but honestly I dont really want to end up in the obitraries over one mural. If I had 2 other sympathisers to look out, plus a driver so i could make a fast getaway, I might consider doing it.

Sadly these are resources I don't have.

[Dr Mindbender]

lol just waiting for RSM comrades to jump in with an offer.

[Lector Malibu]

I like your optimism, but honestly I dont really want to end up in the obitraries over one mural. If I had 2 other sympathisers to look out, plus a driver so i could make a fast getaway, I might consider doing it.

Sadly these are resources I don't have.

Fair enough. Yeah one of the biggest mistakes the cops made in my town in my younger days was having a shift change over to the point there was a window or down time where there was a serious reduction of officers on the beat. This my friend led to some great stories :lol:

[Dr Mindbender]

I don't know where you're from but here its a very different situation to typical gangland terrorities. You really don't want to get on the wrong side of these people. If they find your identity they will hunt you down. Their organisational abilities are on a par with the mafia or FARC.

[Lector Malibu]

I don't know where you're from but here its a very different situation to typical gangland terrorities. You really don't want to get on the wrong side of these people. If they find your identity they will hunt you down. Their organisational abilities are on a par with the mafia or FARC.

I'm very familiar with what your up against and the reality of the risk involved .I also take you very seriously when you explain the reasons why it best to be realistic about this sorta stuff and I respect that and appreciate it for what it is.

[Dr Mindbender]

this is why I've been politically inactive for the past several years. Even publicly coming out as a revolutionary is potentially too dangerous.

[Lector Malibu]

this is why I've been politically inactive for the past several years. Even publicly coming out as a revolutionary is potentially too dangerous.

Yes it's best never to tip your hand too early to your well aware of the players around you.

[Dr Mindbender]

I am aware, thats why I'm not public with my views! :lol:

[Gitfiddle Jim]

I don't know where you're from but here its a very different situation to typical gangland terrorities. You really don't want to get on the wrong side of these people. If they find your identity they will hunt you down. Their organisational abilities are on a par with the mafia or FARC.

Even after the peace treaty in 1998, NI is still full of intense prejudices (especially Belfast and more specifically Shankhill). You've still got stuff like the bloody Orange Lodge marching through Catholic areas and making reference to the Battle of the Boyne.

Ulster Socialist, where you brought up there? And if so, what was it like living around events such as the Enniskillen bombing and Bloody Sunday? In England the media gave us the impression that Republican groups were to blame (the IRA), and with an obvious bias towards Loyalist groups such as the UFF.

[Lector Malibu]

I am aware, thats why I'm not public with my views! :lol:

:lol: fair enough

[Dr Mindbender]

Ulster Socialist, where you brought up there? And if so, what was it like living around events such as the Enniskillen bombing and Bloody Sunday? In England the media gave us the impression that Republican groups were to blame (the IRA), and with an obvious bias towards Loyalist groups such as the UFF.
Without going into details, I spent much of my childhood around the flashpoint where it was bad, and around the early 90's when the conflict was still in full swing. Bloody sunday was a bit before my time though!
I'm not surprised the English media focussed on the IRA especially since they were attacking targets in mainland UK. I lived only a few yards from an RUC station which was being bombed on a regular basis (maybe once a fortnight) While its true the IRA were responsible for (most of) the bombings, What I'm guessing is they didnt talk about was the loyalist atrocities and general gun or hand weapon related thuggery.
A list of loyalist attacks-
http://www.michael.donegan.care4free.net/dundalk_bombing/index.htm

http://ie.indymedia.org/article/76296

The 'shankill butchers'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankill_Butchers


Saturday 30 October 1993
Greysteel Killings
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/photos/coderry/greysteel/risingsunbar01.htm
The Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF), a cover name (pseudonym) used by the Ulster Defence Association (UDA), killed six Catholics civilians and one Protestant civilian in an attack on the 'Rising Sun' bar in Greysteel, County Derry. A further 13 people were injured in the attack one of whom later died of his injuries on 14 April 1994. [One of the gunmen was hear to say "trick or treat" before he fired into the crowded bar. This was a reference to the Halloween celebration that was taking place. There was widespread condemnation of the attack. The UFF later claimed that it had attacked the "Nationalist electorate" in revenge for the Shankill Road Bombing on 23 October 1993. The killings brought the total number of deaths during October to 27 making it the worst month for casualties in 17 years.]

[BOZG]

Even after the peace treaty in 1998, NI is still full of intense prejudices (especially Belfast and more specifically Shankhill). You've still got stuff like the bloody Orange Lodge marching through Catholic areas and making reference to the Battle of the Boyne.

Ulster Socialist, where you brought up there? And if so, what was it like living around events such as the Enniskillen bombing and Bloody Sunday? In England the media gave us the impression that Republican groups were to blame (the IRA), and with an obvious bias towards Loyalist groups such as the UFF.

Does prejudice only exist within Unionist communities?

[Dr Mindbender]

Does prejudice only exist within Unionist communities?
certainly racist prejudice. I've walked along nationalist areas in belfast, some of which have thriving asian and eastern european communities. In protestant working class areas foreign third and second world nationals are treated with animosity and at worst, violence.
Hardly surprising given loyalist sympathy for C18/NF.

[Philosophical Materialist]

certainly racist prejudice. I've walked along nationalist areas in belfast, some of which have thriving asian and eastern european communities. In protestant working class areas foreign third and second world nationals are treated with animosity and at worst, violence.
Hardly surprising given loyalist sympathy for C18/NF.

I imagine because catholic working class people were treated as a colonial subject people for so long, they probably find common cause with migrants from first and second world countries.

The reactionary protestant working class shows unsurprising racism given its hitherto social hegemony in the north of Ireland. The promise of racial superiority is used by reactionaries to justify a bigoted culture.

[Dr Mindbender]

I imagine because catholic working class people were treated as a colonial subject people for so long, they probably find common cause with migrants from first and second world countries.

The reactionary protestant working class shows unsurprising racism given its hitherto social hegemony in the north of Ireland. The promise of racial superiority is used by reactionaries to justify a bigoted culture.
that as well, of course. This is also backed up by the way in which the thatcher cabinet refrained from implementing the poll or council tax in northern ireland for fear of it becoming a cross community 'unifying issue'.

However the UK fascists have managed to get a foothold in the 6 counties. That doesnt help the situation at all.

[BOZG]

certainly racist prejudice. I've walked along nationalist areas in belfast, some of which have thriving asian and eastern european communities. In protestant working class areas foreign third and second world nationals are treated with animosity and at worst, violence.
Hardly surprising given loyalist sympathy for C18/NF.

But it's generally the case that there are higher immigrant populations in unionist areas than in nationalist areas? At least from what I've read and that includes nationalist newspapers. I remember reading a particularly interested article in a nationalist newspaper attacking nationalist politicians for gloating over attacks on migrants in unionist areas and manipulating it for their own agenda of "protestants = bad" and pointing out that if a scenario occured where there was a huge increase of migrants in nationalist communities, you'd see as much racism then.

I think it's ridiculous to say that racial prejudice is confined to Protestant communities. There are reactionary backwards attitudes in all working class communities and catholics are no exempt from that. It's more widespread amongst the unionist working class because of the nature of loyalism and unionism but it's certainly not applicable to only the protestant working class.



I imagine because catholic working class people were treated as a colonial subject people for so long, they probably find common cause with migrants from first and second world countries.

The reactionary protestant working class shows unsurprising racism given its hitherto social hegemony in the north of Ireland. The promise of racial superiority is used by reactionaries to justify a bigoted culture.

How do you explain the rise of racism in the South in that case? I'm sure there is a certain sympathy but to think that prejudice doesn't exist is just idiotic.

As for the second half of your comment, "the reactionary protestant working class" shows what an absolute tool you are. Would you suggest aerial bombing of protestant communities to remove the reactionary swine? The protestant working class are also massively exploited by British and Irish capitalism and by the paramilitary bigots and class appeals must be made to them to break them away for support for the Union, not by tarring them all with one brush as reactionaries. You're obviously one of these idiots who thinks that all Protestants drive Ferraris, have catholic servants and generally live the high life while catholics eat food off the street and scrounge for money. Take your "English guilt" shite somewhere else.

[Dr Mindbender]

But it's generally the case that there are higher immigrant populations in unionist areas than in nationalist areas? At least from what I've read and that includes nationalist newspapers. I remember reading a particularly interested article in a nationalist newspaper attacking nationalist politicians for gloating over attacks on migrants in unionist areas and manipulating it for their own agenda of "protestants = bad" and pointing out that if a scenario occured where there was a huge increase of migrants in nationalist communities, you'd see as much racism then.

I think it's ridiculous to say that racial prejudice is confined to Protestant communities. There are reactionary backwards attitudes in all working class communities and catholics are no exempt from that. It's more widespread amongst the unionist working class because of the nature of loyalism and unionism but it's certainly not applicable to only the protestant working class.


I'm not suggesting that nationalists are squeaky clean when it comes to racism. There are elements within the non-socialist republican movement that are guilty when it comes to cowtowing to the beourgious agenda but by in large, 'white pride' and euro-centric racism is a unionist phenomenon, as you correctly said is the nature of unionist bigotry.
I'm guessing the way in which dublin and the greater free state has seen an increase in racism compared to say, the falls road estate or turf lodge is due to the fact that the republic is largely divorced from the effects of the troubles. That has enabled Irish reactionaries to set up their own hegemony of indigenous supremacy ideas.

[palotin]

That's beyond fucked up. What is Shankhill?

[BOZG]

The Shankhill is the Shankill Road in West Belfast and the area surrounding it. It's one of the more hardline loyalist areas of Belfast and the North.

[Coggeh]

Why does that mural surprise you ? its typical of the far right up in the north to have something like that.This is why i would worry about how much support the BNP may get up there . Seeing as no one has painted over this mural yet .

[Dr Mindbender]

Why does that mural surprise you ? its typical of the far right up in the north to have something like that.This is why i would worry about how much support the BNP may get up there . Seeing as no one has painted over this mural yet .

I wouldnt go as far as to say this is typical. This painting is particularly repugnant out of hundreds I've seen .

As for the BNP threat what i find more worrying is the amount of apathy among some of these supposed Irish 'leftists' that i've tried to contact with a view to forming an anti nazi solidarity group.

[Lector Malibu]

I wouldnt go as far as to say this is typical. This painting is particularly repugnant out of hundreds I've seen .

As for the BNP threat what i find more worrying is the amount of apathy among some of these supposed Irish 'leftists' that i've tried to contact with a view to forming an anti nazi solidarity group.

Well for what it's worth comrade I stand with you. Fuck the BNP and their tired Enoch Powell Rivers of blood rant, they are sell outs plain and simple. I know I live across the pond but if I could I would take up arms with you, I would comrade and your struggle against British oppression.

[Guerrilla22]

i wish i could fly to Belfast, down about 10 pints of Guiness, then go relieve my self all over that mural.

[Lector Malibu]

FUCK the BNP and other assorted Nazi skum !!!!

[Dr Mindbender]

i wish i could fly to Belfast, down about 10 pints of Guiness, then go relieve my self all over that mural.
If you do, make sure you bring your flak jacket.

;)

[bcbm]

Sweet KFC in the background.

[Dr Mindbender]

Sweet KFC in the background.

Believe or not, that depiction in the background is a literal copy of the surrounding area. Thats how I know where it is located. I don't know which is more bizarre, the fact that someone agreed to have that shite painted on the side of their house or the way the bonehead has made the effort to put such lifelike detail into the backdrop.

I actually ate at that KFC before I was politically aware. Fucking foul (no pun intended ;))

[Dr Mindbender]

BTW here is the KFC in question-
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/853874.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1936808AB6AB7C5FBABC97CA4A297BFAF7F 284831B75F48EF45


and here is the controversy thats been brewing over that mural painted on the side of it-
http://www.irishnationalcaucus.org/pages/Articles2002/Kentucky%20Fried%20Chicken%20Forced%20By%20Caucus% 20and%20Others%20to%20Take%20Down%20Anti-Catholic%20Mural.htm

[Redmau5]

I wouldnt go as far as to say this is typical. This painting is particularly repugnant out of hundreds I've seen .

As for the BNP threat what i find more worrying is the amount of apathy among some of these supposed Irish 'leftists' that i've tried to contact with a view to forming an anti nazi solidarity group.

Though the BNP don't seem to be too active in Belfast, at least in the city centre. I've heard plenty of reports about BNP and BPP poster campaigns in places like Portadown, but I don't think they pose much of a threat yet. However, I'm keeping my ear to the ground incase they do ever try and set up a stall in Belfast.

[Dr Mindbender]

Though the BNP don't seem to be too active in Belfast, at least in the city centre. I've heard plenty of reports about BNP and BPP poster campaigns in places like Portadown, but I don't think they pose much of a threat yet. However, I'm keeping my ear to the ground incase they do ever try and set up a stall in Belfast.
that sounds very typical of BNP tactics, they tend to stick close to deprived (predominantly white protestant) working class areas where there is more desperation.

It is very unusual for the BNP to stray into inner city areas. There is far too much privilege and 'metropolitan diversity' for them to get anything but their asses handed to them.

In any case, I doubt it was the BNP responsible for this mural, it was probably some idiot UVF/UFF supporter with too much time on his hands.