How do people feel about the PKK?

[abbielives!]

From what I understand the PKK is a socialist/Kurdish nationalist party
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party

[Bandito]

Total support.

[Bright Banana Beard]

I support it as long they support the worker and to improves their life

[Marsella]

Anti-working class thugs.

I suggest you do a search on other threads about them.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/pkk-t55156/index.html?t=55156& (http://www.revleft.com/vb/pkk-t55156/index.html?t=55156&highlight=kurdistan)

http://www.revleft.com/vb/questions-39-anti-t65922/index.html?t=65922&

http://www.revleft.com/vb/kurds-ready-counter-t65313/index.html?t=65313

[Xiao Banfa]

Well acording to some ultra leftist slanderers they're a tool of syrian "imperialism" (please give me more info about the evil syrian empire) and american imperialism and probably polich imperialism for all I know.

They're a flawed organisation, but they're the only game in town of any consequence.

[Devrim]

Interestingly enough the last time the PKK was discussed on here it was not only the 'ultra leftist slanderers', but all of the posters from Turkey particularly the Kurdish ones who denounced the PKK.

That the PKK acted as a puppet for the Syrian state is undeniable. That parts of the PKK (specifically PJAK) are now working with the US is also established fact.

The PKK is a vicious anti-working class organisation with a record of violent attacks upon workers. If that is 'the only game in town'. We don't want to play.

Devrim

[Die Neue Zeit]

As the Irish revolutionary Marxist Connolly noted, genuine national liberation is fully intertwined with socialist revolution (because nations and nationalities, in spite of workers having no countries, do not disappear overnight and result in everyone singing "kumbaya"). To paraphrase him:

"If you remove the Turkish Army tomorrow and hoist the PKK flag over Kurdistan, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic [which entails spreading the revolution] your efforts will be in vain. Turkey will still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs."

[Marsella]

As the Irish revolutionary Marxist Connolly noted, genuine national liberation is fully intertwined with socialist revolution (because nations and nationalities, in spite of workers having no countries, do not disappear overnight and result in everyone singing "kumbaya"). To paraphrase him:

"If you remove the Turkish Army tomorrow and hoist the PKK flag over Kurdistan, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic [which entails spreading the revolution] your efforts will be in vain. Turkey will still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs."

Re-read what you just wrote.

First you said that national liberation is fully intertwined with socialist revolution.

Then you paraphrased Collony stating that even if the PKK won, its efforts would be in vain because capitalism would still exist.

Well, what is it?

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ I think it is you who needs to reread what you wrote and quoted. You fall into the same trap as the ortho-Marxists do in equating the globalized DOTP with the socialist mode of production, when in fact the former is still entirely in the CAPITALIST mode of production (see my Stamocap thread and my thread on "capitalism without bourgeois rule").

Connolly was referring to foreign BOURGEOIS, financiers, etc. in terms of them being part of the global BOURGEOIS-capitalist system.

[bcbm]

As I understand it, they've basically been rendered impotent since the death of their leader, a typical occurrence with Stalinist personality cults. Not that their military strategy was anything to boast about prior to that. Devrim pretty much covered it.

[Red October]

They're just nationalist thugs who flew a red flag to get support from the USSR and other leftists, but now that the USSR is gone their true anti-worker nature is painfully obvious. The US relies on the Kurdish nationalist groups, including the PKK, to keep Kurdistan from destabilizing just like the rest of Iraq.

[Forte]

It seems to me in the last decade or so they've degenerated into more of an extremist group. I don't know how they fit "Marxism-Leninism" into their ideology.

[Devrim]

It seems to me in the last decade or so they've degenerated into more of an extremist group.

I don't see why you say this.


I don't know how they fit "Marxism-Leninism" into their ideology.

They no longer do.

Devrim

[Forte]

They no longer do.


Because they still seem to adress themselves as a "workers party" and state their ideology as "Marxism-Lennisim?" I guess they didn't bother changing the name and stance to trick people into thinking they're actually intending to establish a Socialist Republic.

[Devrim]

They no longer claim to be 'Marxist-Leninists'.
Devrim

[Forte]

They no longer claim to be 'Marxist-Leninists'.
Devrim

Oh okay. Stupid Wikipedia had me thinking they still were. Thanks for correcting me.

[Devrim]

Also, they are not officially called the PKK anymore, but KADEK (Kongreya Azad” zˇ Demokrasiya Kurdistan/Kurdistan Freedom and Democracy Congress) since the eight congress in 2002.
Devrim

[ArabRASH]

That the PKK acted as a puppet for the Syrian state is undeniable. That parts of the PKK (specifically PJAK) are now working with the US is also established fact.

The Syrians hate the PKK. They supported Erdogan going into Northern Iraq. Four years ago, Kurdish separatists held a protest in Damascus("Kurdistan" is a land taken from parts of Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Syria, and one more i forgot). The very next day, everybody who was at the protest disappeared. It's very rare that Syria and Turkey take the same stance on an issue, but they did on this one.

The PKK are funded by the Americans. Kurdistan is on Condi's "new map of the middle East". Just imagine that. A US ally, that borders with Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Turkey. Imagine, only a short range missile away. That's why i tend to be against Kurdish separatists.

[Devrim]

That the PKK acted as a puppet for the Syrian state is undeniable.
It is past tense. Before 1998, the PKK was supported by Syria, and Apo lived there.
Devrim

[Devrim]

"Kurdistan" is a land taken from parts of Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Syria, and one more i forgot)
Armenia
Devrim

[ArabRASH]

It is past tense. Before 1998, the PKK was supported by Syria, and Apo lived there.
Devrim


Oh ok my bad....and yeah Armenia...thanks!

[Guerrilla22]

The Syrians hate the PKK.

Syria allowed them to establish camps in northern Syria so that they could launch attacks into Turkey.

Various Kurdish groups have aligned with different countries and interest for years now, at one point the KDP actually fought along side Saddam's army to gain control of the capital of the enclave in northern Iraq after it was established followin the Gulf war.

It seems they are too caught up in factionalism, tribal rivalries and petty political power struggles to actually accomplish anything. Currently, the PKK and their sister organization are setting off bombs inside Iran, on behalf of the CIA, in exchange for US support and weapons. They clearly are no exception.

[Guerrilla Manila]

In my opinion they are a legitimate resistance group battling systematic and brutal Turkish apartheid.

The Kurdish people deserve their own independent state and the PKK are one of the few groups ensuring they have it.

Sure they break eggs in making their omelet ... but to do nothing is suicide.

[Encrypted Soldier]

Kurdistan needs independence and socialism.

I'm not so sure if the PKK is the way to go though.

[вор в законе]

The PKK are not supported by any country especially the USA. The US backed Kurds are the Peshmerga militia and Turkey cant and wont do anything against them. The PKK is getting its weapons from Kurds living in Iran. That's where they will withdraw if the ongoing fight becomes too intense.

[Devrim]

The PKK are not supported by any country especially the USA... The PKK is getting its weapons from Kurds living in Iran.

The US is arming PJAK, which is the Iranian section of the PKK.


That's[Iran] where they will withdraw if the ongoing fight becomes too intense.

This is an absurd idea.

Devrim

[Encrypted Soldier]

According to my National Geographic from 1991, the Syrians are training significant numbers of the PKK.

I'm not so sure how true that is, though.

[Devrim]

According to my National Geographic from 1991, the Syrians are training significant numbers of the PKK.

I'm not so sure how true that is, though.

It continued until 1998.

Devrim