Getting Inspired with Society!

[I Will Deny You]

Everyone in this damned forum is going on and on and on about capitalist society and socialist society, but what you haven't talked about is either system's culture. I, for one, know that I would rather be poor but live with interesting people in a society with lots of singers, painters, (nude?) sculptors, dancers, and actors than be rich and live in a society where the artsiest they get in a McDonalds sign. I remember either Reagan Lives or Imperial Power said that the last step of capitalism is enlightenment, but I happen to think the first step of socialism is enlightenment.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Chicago7/KANGPOST.jpg

So, of course, I'd rather live on $50 a day in a society where Inside Schwartz is considered "Must See TV" but I've got medical insurance, than live on $2 a day with da Vinci next door.

So what do you think? I'm just trying to heat things up in here, so don't post something prophetic or especially insightful and expect some kind of unusually intelligent response from me. Because if you want to know how I really feel about this forum, you'd best look at this post (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=116).

And if you don't mind, please discuss art that was actually inspired by society or some kind of economic system, not just, "This chapel was painted during a capitalist regime . . . "

(Edited by I Will Deny You at 3:45 am on Feb. 26, 2002)

[Jurhael]

"that the last step of capitalism is enlightenment, but I happen to think the first step of socialism is enlightenment. "

That statement comes hand in hand. Think about it. The last step of Capitalism means: THE END. That's the first step of socialism. The question is when.

As for me, well I agree with you. :) Can't think of anything more to add. heh

[TovarishAlexandrov]

Damn! Sucks for Communism then... Enlightenment is hard to come by, and even when Buda was arround enenlightenment didn't spread quickly. We have a long way to go. And by that time we wont need Communism, because people will have learned how to play nice

[TheDerminator]

Er um, the "Enlightment", is the epoch early bourgeois society, and since the main end of classical literature and classical music in the 20th century, the culuture level has declined. There were some great writers in early last century, but not the same numbers as in the 2Oth century, if you think of the writers, from France, Russia, England, Germany, and so on.
It is a strange fact that the best writers have flourished in earier stages of development, Shakespeare, Dante, Cervantes, Goethe, Moliere etc, during the European Renaissance, then just before and around the time of the industrial revolution, there was Swift, Voltaire, Burns, Byron, Shelley, etc.
Before Russia industrialised you had Pushkin, Tolstoi, Doestoevsky, Gogol, Turgenev, etc.
Ireland was not very industrialised when it had Joyce, and Yeats. It had some industry, but so did Russia. The level was still a poor level of industry. Belfast, in the North was more industrial, than Dublin, but even then Belfast was no Glasgow or Manchester, never mind a London.
Kant and Hegel, are consider as the main figures of the German Enlightment, yet this was well before Germany became industrialised.

The "Golden Era", of the bourgeois epoch, is long gone, we are left only with occaisional pieces of work, which rise above mediocrity.
Name a writer who possesses the same psychological depth of a Shakespeare, or a Tolstoi, or a Doestoevsky.
We have some very good writers, but even the best such as Umberto Echo, can write poor stuff, such as Focault's Pendulum.
I like stuff in popular culture, but I know the difference, between the pyschological depth of Crime and Punishment and the lack of psychological depth in three novels about Hannibal and the FBI by Thomas Harris.
The trilogy, is one of the better efforts on the theme of pyschopaths, but a novel, by one of my fellow Scot's James Hogg, called Confessions of Justified Sinner, handled the same subject in greater depth, by writing in the first person, as the psychopath.
It is a much deeper approach, and if Harris had done the same with Hannibal, and showed the transformation of the character from early childhood, it would have been acceptable plagiarism, because Hogg did not really do the theme justice.
Hogg wrote just before the industrial revolution, so he could not really get to grips with horror he was describing.
Let's face it the bourgeiosie, do not want to know what turns someone into a psychopath. As the saying goes, you point one finger forward, and three fingers back.
Popular culture, has some highs and lows, but there are a hell of a lot of more lows than highs.
derminated

[I Will Deny You]

That's really interesting, Derminator.

I was actually thinking along the lines of Fo (communist) and Jarry (um . . . ).

[AgustoSandino]

I don't usually cut and paste stuff, or link things, but a friend forwarded this article to me. I find it unquestionably pertinent. So if you've got the time...

http://www.reason.com/0203/fe.cf.in.shtml

[Supermodel]

Ah, I love it when people bring up culture because it points immediately to intellectual snobbery when it comes to cultural issues (and I'm not referring to any of the posters here). My point is that I think socialist countries have done a far better job of preserving "high brow" culture such as classical music, art, and dance, where capitalist countries have made far more progress in moving these genres forward.

Whether you agree or not about the moving forward comment speaks to whether you think that MTV is a step forward from Tschaikovsky and Diagelev. Hence, cultural snobbery. We all know that intellectuals pretend to like classical stuff so they can appear smarter. Pass the remote, Ricky Martin's on.......

[I Will Deny You]

I'm not talking about high art or anything like that. I think my "official pogrom" might actually be a little relevant after all, because in the 60's when kids stopped caring so much about money for the first time ever their culture was unquestionably at its height.

So it doesn't have to be anything that fits in a museum.

[Lardlad95]

Quote:We all know that intellectuals pretend to like classical stuff so they can appear smarter.

that isn't always true. being an intellectual does't really mean you have to like classical to seem smart. Personally I like a wide range of music that includes classical and some stuff from today (mainly underground rap). I think people use classical to seem superior or better than someone else and that doesn't mean they pretend to be smarter it means they think they are more sophisticated

[peaccenicked]

When the market is aiming for the lowest common denominator anything that strives for betterment is immediately jumped upon as 'elitist'.
We should be endlessly thankful for the tasteless drivel that we should moreover enjoy to prove we dont want to rise above the level of garbage or tacky consumerism.