Where has communism worked and continued to work?

[Forever capitalism]

Commies you base all your arguments on theory that after been tested in practice has been seen to produce dictators and tyrants. Where has communism produced a successfully economic and polical system that still continues to prosper today without limiting ones freedoms of speech, expression, worship, ec.

[peaccenicked]

how many times do we have to tell you that has not been tested in practice by any standards that can be considered communist as established by Marx and Engels. You are merely throwing mud at us using these horrific abberations to undermine actual theory and practice. You may as well call every christian a supporter of the spanish inquisition.

[vox]

Of course, one could always try the FRY.

I expect that's just too much work for those "hard-working" right-wingers, though.

vox

[Forever capitalism]

So Lenin, Mao and Castro did not then represent communism?

[peaccenicked]

You are trying to imply that Lenin led to Stalin.
moa was a Stalinist
Castro is a Stalinist
Lenin hardly represented communism
He called Russia a peasants and workers state with
gross bureucratic distortions
Hence none of them really represented communism


(Edited by peaccenicked at 10:13 am on Feb. 24, 2002)

[ComradeFubar]

the mentioned above are hardly ture communists..but then i cant be stuffed explaing simple political theory to some one who has a picture of Bill Clinton

[vox]

No, I'm talking about the FRY.

Perhaps you'd be interested in reading a bit more about it:

http://www.ius.bg.ac.yu/apel/materija.htm

This ain't easy, baby. It requires hard work, which means reading a lot of stuff like what I linked. Political reality isn't a gift on a silver platter. It's reading what you don't want to read.

vox

[ThomasT]

ever read the communistic manifest of Marx and Engls??
If you'd have done so you'd not say that this system was ever tested in practice.
Che was one of the only who followed their ideas, and their ideas only... but Cuba (CASTRO) was not able to convert their thoughts into his country....
*be realistic, demand the unrealistic*... idealists keep fighting!!!

[Super Xero]

The USA and most western nations are not even democracy's they still limit ones freedom of speech like our comrade here AntiGoverment found out, when the FBI raided his house and shut down his website.

[Moskitto]

Grenada. But a Stalinist ruined that. Stupid Stalinists.

Nicaragua actually had free elections in 1984. Infact it was the Contras who were closing down the polling stations.

(Edited by Moskitto at 4:51 pm on Feb. 24, 2002)

[Guest]

Didn't Lenin try to implement communist theory to Russia before 1922 (known as "War Communism") but the system failed because the peasants did not understand what communism was, so force had to be used to make them give up their grain and so started a viscious cycle that led to Stalinism....

[Rosa]

there was no "vicious cycle", but vicious & ambitious Stallin using Macchiavellian methods for achieving his sick need for power.

[Forever capitalism]

Do you think that Lenin, Mao and Castro were all Stalinists before they attained power? I doubt that very much, they were fanatical communists, when they attained power they could not establish a communist regime because of its many failures and contradictions so reverted to a dictatorship to remain in power and not face trial over their abuse of human rights.
Fact remains they were communits, yet when they achieved power as everybody else did, turned Stalinists.

[MindCrime]

I would like to see some evidence of the attitudes of Stalin, Mao, and Castro before and after coming to power. If you can show it then thats great, but otherwise its all speculation and hearsay.

Do you think they were before they gained power? I doubt that very much.

That is an opinion. You base your argument on your suspicions, and that is all your argument amounts to.

[Forever capitalism]

You have a picture of Lenin as your representative logo MindCrime, and you are a communist. So you are saying the connection there has nothing to do with the fact that he was originally a communist? Or do you admire him because according to you he wasn't a communist but a Stalinist before and after his death and before he met Stalin?????????

[TovarishAlexandrov]

There is a country called Tuva in southern Russia. They are still basically communist. Namadic herders. Everyone has a fine life, and healthcare is free. Unfortunatly, people are going to the cities for jobs, and not finding them. And more and more people are returning to their nomadic communist ways. First Genghis Khan taught them how to live on the steppe, then Lenin tought them how to do it right. Case and Point

[peaccenicked]

"Democracy is indispensable to socialism."
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

[Guest]

Forever capitalism just ate mindcrime!!!!!

[peaccenicked]

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...um=22&topic=149 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=149)

[Guest]

??
what has that got to do with mindcrime getting wrecked?

[peaccenicked]

Lenin a stalinist before he met Stalin.
How can you 'eat' someone by indulging in
fantasies. The guest is being wildly dishonest
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...um=22&topic=149 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=149)

[IzmSchism]

Quote: from Forever capitalism on 5:54 am on Feb. 25, 2002
Do you think that Lenin, Mao and Castro were all Stalinists before they attained power? I doubt that very much, they were fanatical communists, when they attained power they could not establish a communist regime because of its many failures and contradictions so reverted to a dictatorship to remain in power and not face trial over their abuse of human rights.
Fact remains they were communits, yet when they achieved power as everybody else did, turned Stalinists.



Fidel was fighting for the rights of his fellow Cubans who were being pimped out to the imperialist strength of Batista and his even higher ranking pimp, the USA, Casto was bent on bringing justice to his country, he was not a "communist" prior to taking control over cuba, he was a liberator of man's freedom. Che on the other hand represented the purest form of communism, from early on, and was a huge facto in shaping Cuba's political and economic landscape. Castro was heavily influenced by Che. The only way they wer allowed to forge any type of economic independence was to break ties with the US, since they stopped buying their sugar, blah, blah, blah,,,,the US bullied everyone into breaking political and economic ties with Cuba, that the only countires that would allow them to survive were the socialist bloc. I am not advocating any system of power, but check the history of it all, it is not so straight forward as you seem to think,, take for example Canada, where I reign from, home of the peace keeper, USA's little sister, I am interested to think if you would agree with me when I say that their cpital, democratic society is really a dictatorship, anyone who knows canadian politics, as dry as it is, I am looking for feedback, the same bloody party rules, and rules poorly, the left is divided by three factioned parties, and then their is only one left. I got my freedom of speech, sure, but will anything in my country ever change,,,,no.....it is all bullshite