Religion in an anarchist society

[Freedom Through Anarchy]

Ive been thinking over the past week or so and i just couldn't figure out one problem with my vision of a "Perfect" society.
Religion.
Its pretty obvious that people won't just completely give up their religion in that society.
My perfect picture for an anarchist society is completely devoid of any religion whatsoever as they only prove to create problems and the followers often blindly follow a hierachy of officials in the church (Priest, bishop etc). No money system either where everyone puts there food into a local pot where everyone can take just what the need to survive. No police force as the people would be held responsible for policing themselves in their own individual community. This all depends on the ideal that "Birds of a kind flock together". Each community would be made up of people with alike thinking. (As you wouldn't want to live in a community with everyone else disagreeing with you) Of course theres going to be communities that will be revolved around drugs and other factors but only the people who "want" to be in that community will go to it. Of course theres the problem of the people who can't work for themselves and need another person assistance (IE Mentally ill people) that would be taken care of by the people that have compassion for them. Still after thinking and agreeing with my whole ideal ive based it on everyone being an atheist. Religion would inviviitably cause problems. But would they just create a community of like people that worship the same faith?
So my question basiclly is how would Religion fit into an Anarchist society?

[blackstone]

How would it cause problems? You never made a point.

[Freedom Through Anarchy]

Disagreements in the inner community making the whole system fall apart.


I should have changed the question i was actually asking.
"Hows does religion fit into an anarchist society and what problems and benefits can it cause"

[Dros]

I don't think that, in a Communist society, religion will continue to exist as the material basis for religion's existance (ie scarcity, alienation, exploitation) would be gone.

[apathy maybe]

drosera99's comment is the correct Marxist answer, and funnily enough is correct enough for non-Marxists too (in most cases).

The question you should ask is, what causes religion? Why are people religious? Will these things continue to exist into a society of rationalism, surplus and freedom?

My suggestion is that there might still be some small amount of religion, but it won't be an obvious part of society (except in those communities built around it). People might still 'go to church on Sunday', but it won't be a big public church, because it is unlikely that such things exist. More likely they will have small gatherings. There might still be 'nature worshippers' as well.

But the thing is, that it won't affect other people. If someone tries to force their religion on another person it will probably be treated abhorrently (who are you to get off telling me how to think?).

Of course, this is all speculation, and you should not fall into the trap of blueprinting utopia. The shape of society to come will not be decided by a single person, but by society as a whole.

[F9]

i think just it doesnt fit!religion is the most powerfull card for capitalists who want to start wars and make their people to obay them!:star:

[Black Dagger]

But would they just create a community of like people that worship the same faith?

If they want - that is their choice.


Disagreements in the inner community making the whole system fall apart.

If religion did not inhibit the social revolution and the creation of anarchy why would it suddenly start to cause problems at a later date? Surely most (any?) problems would have arisen at a much earlier date.

At any rate, i think it's fairly improbable that organised religion or in the least, religion as it currently exists, will continue to hold the same relevance as it does now by the time anarchy has been established. For an anarchist society to have been created in the first place implies a broad rejection of authority, hierarchy and domination - and thus of the most socially harmful aspects stemming from religious belief.

I think it's important to remember that the future will be very different to the present - so much so that it's basically impossible to say with any credibility what this will mean in terms of society - religious views, forms of spirituality (if any) etc. Certainly as time goes by (and at an ever increasing rate) science is closing down the space between human knowledge and 'god' - basically our own ignorance - and with each step we take the legitimacy of supernatural explanation is called into question.

Basically, at this point in time it looks like religion as a dominant force in human society has an expiration date and it's drawing closer as each decade, each century goes by (save some kind of future 'dark ages'-style reversion to global theocracy) - and certainly an anarchist revolution would signal something of a nail in the coffin for religion of this nature.

[Colonello Buendia]

d

My suggestion is that there might still be some small amount of religion, but it won't be an obvious part of society (except in those communities built around it). People might still 'go to church on Sunday', but it won't be a big public church, because it is unlikely that such things exist. More likely they will have small gatherings. There might still be 'nature worshippers' as well.

But the thing is, that it won't affect other people. If someone tries to force their religion on another person it will probably be treated abhorrently (who are you to get off telling me how to think?).



I think what people believe is their business, so if a group of Christians or Buddhists set up their own communes that'd be cool with me. I'd also say that if they stayed within secular communes and collectives they can practice their faith etc so long as they don't get on at others or preach.

[INDK]

I don't think that, in a Communist society, religion will continue to exist as the material basis for religion's existance (ie scarcity, alienation, exploitation) would be gone.

I generally agree and have argued this since the beginning of my stay at this board, but I see one problem -

Religion doesn't really find it's origins in alienation and exploitation - it seems to have risen much before civilization itself, from people wondering why- what happens when they die, why everything is around them, where they came from, etc.

[AGITprop]

I generally agree and have argued this since the beginning of my stay at this board, but I see one problem -

Religion doesn't really find it's origins in alienation and exploitation - it seems to have risen much before civilization itself, from people wondering why- what happens when they die, why everything is around them, where they came from, etc.

Absolutely, religion was a means to explain phenomena which could not otherwise be explained. In the beginning we attributed naturally occuring events such as rain to spirits who controlled nature. Over time, with the development of science we attribute less and less to the absurd mystical forces. Also, religion is prevalent in society where material conditions demand it. People who are unhappy find a sense of peace in the idea that the afterlife will be paradise. I strongly suggest you read Reason in Revolt by Ted Grant and Alan Woods. It analysis of dialectical materialism will help you understand these concepts. Under risk of being attacked by Rosa i suggest you visit www.marxist.com (http://www.marxist.com) where reason in revolt is available to read for free.

[Freedom Through Anarchy]

Thanks ill read it

[AGITprop]

Thanks ill read it

Well pace yourself. Its over 500 pages.

[Dros]

Religion doesn't really find it's origins in alienation and exploitation - it seems to have risen much before civilization itself, from people wondering why- what happens when they die, why everything is around them, where they came from, etc.

I was referring to orginized religion as it manifests itself today.

We have science to deal with those problems now.

[Freedom Through Anarchy]

Well pace yourself. Its over 500 pages.

Oh of course of course id rather go to the library and order it rather then read it on the internet just for reasons of comfort and such but i certainly will ill have to pick up a book or two on marxism because im not actually sure what the believe in depth.

[jake williams]

I don't think that, in a Communist society, religion will continue to exist as the material basis for religion's existance (ie scarcity, alienation, exploitation) would be gone.
This whole idea is, at least in part, ridiculous. A post-capitalist society would certainly be so altered that every institution, including religion, would change a whole lot. In part it would be abandoned. But to suggest that anything plausibly describable as "religion" would sort of vapourize is just fantasy. Even Christianity would take several generations at least to fade away much, and that's a tiny part of what I think should be labeled "religion", though it may be worth considering that the word is to broad to bother using anymore.

[Dros]

This whole idea is, at least in part, ridiculous. A post-capitalist society would certainly be so altered that every institution, including religion, would change a whole lot. In part it would be abandoned. But to suggest that anything plausibly describable as "religion" would sort of vapourize is just fantasy. Even Christianity would take several generations at least to fade away much, and that's a tiny part of what I think should be labeled "religion", though it may be worth considering that the word is to broad to bother using anymore.

Note the use of the word Communism. If the revolution happened tomorrow all across the planet, it would be several generations before we actually were able to implement a communist mode of production.

Now ask yourself this: What is the material basis for religion?

If you have an understanding of communist theory your answer will go something like this: the continued exploitation of the working classes, poverty, alienation, scarcity, and exploitation.

Then ask yourself this: Will these conditions occur under Communism?

You will then anwer yourself: NO!

So then you ask yourself: So why/how would religion continue under Communism in the absence of the material conditions that foster its existance?

Then you will begin to splutter and foam at the mouth and say something like this: Ummmm.... Uhh... Well... Errr.... I... Don't .... Know.......

[AGITprop]

Oh of course of course id rather go to the library and order it rather then read it on the internet just for reasons of comfort and such but i certainly will ill have to pick up a book or two on marxism because im not actually sure what the believe in depth.

Actually, i doubt reason in revolt is available in the library. I would suggest contacting marxist.com to order it. It costs around 30 dollars, but really you can read it for free online and it is definitely worth it.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Note the use of the word Communism. If the revolution happened tomorrow all across the planet, it would be several generations before we actually were able to implement a communist mode of production.

Now ask yourself this: What is the material basis for religion?

If you have an understanding of communist theory your answer will go something like this: the continued exploitation of the working classes, poverty, alienation, scarcity, and exploitation.

Then ask yourself this: Will these conditions occur under Communism?

You will then anwer yourself: NO!

So then you ask yourself: So why/how would religion continue under Communism in the absence of the material conditions that foster its existance?

Then you will begin to splutter and foam at the mouth and say something like this: Ummmm.... Uhh... Well... Errr.... I... Don't .... Know.......

A big part of why many people are drawn to religion, on their own accord, is fear of the unknown.

The unknown being, of course, death. Now, you can say, "There's nothing unknown about death. You die, and then rot." But this isn't good enough for some people. Why do you think that many elderly people are drawn to religion in their later years in life?

So, I guess my question is, how would Communism defeat this?

Because I don't think you can nail down religion as entirely a factor of exploitation. Possibly organized religion, but people will always have beliefs to explain why they exist; in other words, everyone is the main character in their own story. I don't think that this will ever be eliminated, even if science somehow explains everything.

[jake williams]

If you have an understanding of communist theory your answer will go something like this: the continued exploitation of the working classes, poverty, alienation, scarcity, and exploitation.
Except that that isn't true, so your whole argument goes to shit. Economic institutions and processes can affect or even stimulate religion, sure, but the huge class of things which could be called "religion" contains a great number of things that have nothing to do with economic conditions. There's just too much involved, from dress clothes to metaphysics.

[victim77]

Ive been thinking over the past week or so and i just couldn't figure out one problem with my vision of a "Perfect" society.
Religion.
Its pretty obvious that people won't just completely give up their religion in that society.
My perfect picture for an anarchist society is completely devoid of any religion whatsoever as they only prove to create problems and the followers often blindly follow a hierachy of officials in the church (Priest, bishop etc). No money system either where everyone puts there food into a local pot where everyone can take just what the need to survive. No police force as the people would be held responsible for policing themselves in their own individual community. This all depends on the ideal that "Birds of a kind flock together". Each community would be made up of people with alike thinking. (As you wouldn't want to live in a community with everyone else disagreeing with you) Of course theres going to be communities that will be revolved around drugs and other factors but only the people who "want" to be in that community will go to it. Of course theres the problem of the people who can't work for themselves and need another person assistance (IE Mentally ill people) that would be taken care of by the people that have compassion for them. Still after thinking and agreeing with my whole ideal ive based it on everyone being an atheist. Religion would inviviitably cause problems. But would they just create a community of like people that worship the same faith?
So my question basiclly is how would Religion fit into an Anarchist society?
I believe religion should be a personal pursuit and should not be forced on others or disputed publicly.

[Awful Reality]

Drosera99 is correct. Just look at the ridiculous shit that has occurred in history based on the oppressive nature of religion.

But still, it should be like it was in the USSR. Discouraged, not promoted, not socially acceptable, but legal. We can't tell people what they can and can't believe, but we can't want people to take part in Religion. If this happens, it would eventually fade away, and the final, most enduring division of class would be gone.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Drosera99 is correct. Just look at the ridiculous shit that has occurred in history based on the oppressive nature of religion.

But still, it should be like it was in the USSR. Discouraged, not promoted, not socially acceptable, but legal. We can't tell people what they can and can't believe, but we can't want people to take part in Religion. If this happens, it would eventually fade away, and the final, most enduring division of class would be gone.

The legal status of religion in the USSR must have been sketchy; I personally know one old Russian Orthodox monk here in Alaska who was tortured almost to death in the Soviet Union.

[Dystisis]

In a future more enlightened state of human society, such as anarcho-communism or some form of technocratic marxism - call it what you will - organized religion will most probably cease to exist. The lines drawing towards its end is pretty clear and straightforward, however that is not to say there will not be some specific event or situation marking it's end.

The philosophy or the 'bigger' questions that religious fiction sometimes still has a tendency to delve into will, obviously, continue to exist and progress. All aware minds will have a tendency to research its surroundings, its own existance, etc. I believe this will be a lot easier in a world without religious dogma and fairytales.

[mykittyhasaboner]

i think there would be no religion at all because part of the revolution would be abolishing religion. privately worshiping religions such as christianity, judaism, islam, etc would still be around for the heavily brainwashed who blindly yet deeply believe that crap. But the people who are intelligent enough to know its all bullshit would not need religion anymore

[Kropotesta]

abolition of organised religion. however their would be no stopping private worship. however once everyone realises that they are equals, that to shall hopefully fade out.

[mykittyhasaboner]

abolition of organised relation. however their would be no stopping private worship. however once everyone realises that they are equals, that to shall hopefully fade out.
yea, you said it better than i did:p

[RebelDog]

I personally believe that with a libertarian communist society achieved by working class struggle comes an all-encompassing materialism that will negate such fantasy. For me anarchism is a working class ideology, most simply because only the working class has the power to achieve such great aims. Some people think anarchism is just about the destruction of hierarchy, privilege and exploitation etc. It is about these things but its also about fighting to ensure these things never show their ugly faces ever again and the destruction of the institutions that promote or enforce such concepts. Freedom to express a belief that promotes hierarchy, submission and lies is not anarchistic because by its own definition it threatens the freedom of others and the solidarity of workers and objective science and human progress.

[SouthernBelle82]

Right. It will be more about spirituality but not organized religion. It will become more about your personal relationship with whatever god you believe in and your own spirituality journey. People will come to religion on their own if it's meant for them I think. I strongly believe in separation of church and state and I imagine that will be strong too in a communist society. Not a ban on religion just that separation stronger. Personally I think if you have your religion EVERYWHERE in society you really don't have that much faith in what you believe. I have enough faith in what I do to where I don't have to have it crumbed down my throat.


I don't think that, in a Communist society, religion will continue to exist as the material basis for religion's existance (ie scarcity, alienation, exploitation) would be gone.

[SouthernBelle82]

I think first you need to see if you're talking about organized religion or spirituality? There is a difference.


drosera99's comment is the correct Marxist answer, and funnily enough is correct enough for non-Marxists too (in most cases).

The question you should ask is, what causes religion? Why are people religious? Will these things continue to exist into a society of rationalism, surplus and freedom?

My suggestion is that there might still be some small amount of religion, but it won't be an obvious part of society (except in those communities built around it). People might still 'go to church on Sunday', but it won't be a big public church, because it is unlikely that such things exist. More likely they will have small gatherings. There might still be 'nature worshippers' as well.

But the thing is, that it won't affect other people. If someone tries to force their religion on another person it will probably be treated abhorrently (who are you to get off telling me how to think?).

Of course, this is all speculation, and you should not fall into the trap of blueprinting utopia. The shape of society to come will not be decided by a single person, but by society as a whole.

[SouthernBelle82]

With religion I think you're totally right and we're seeing that here in the States and have since the pilgrims. What about spirituality? I think organized religion won't be so big under communism but more so spirituality. Organized religion is about evangelizing and exploiting and trying to save and control people to an extent etc. Spirituality however is on another level than organized religion and is about a relationship with what you believe in. I think if you're more spiritual you don't worry about having to force people to believe like you or to spread what you believe. I'm more spiritual than religious and I could care less if my beliefs were spread all over the world and everywhere in society.


Note the use of the word Communism. If the revolution happened tomorrow all across the planet, it would be several generations before we actually were able to implement a communist mode of production.

Now ask yourself this: What is the material basis for religion?

If you have an understanding of communist theory your answer will go something like this: the continued exploitation of the working classes, poverty, alienation, scarcity, and exploitation.

Then ask yourself this: Will these conditions occur under Communism?

You will then anwer yourself: NO!

So then you ask yourself: So why/how would religion continue under Communism in the absence of the material conditions that foster its existance?

Then you will begin to splutter and foam at the mouth and say something like this: Ummmm.... Uhh... Well... Errr.... I... Don't .... Know.......

[SouthernBelle82]

Well to be honest you can't get rid of that. That's why I like the idea with communism with the separation of church and state and having that strong. Even in Cuba they have freedom of religion and all types of people who worship regularly from Christian's to Jews. What matters isn't what people believe personally: it's the state and how involved they are or aren't and to what extent should they be involved if they are at all which again is why I'm so into the separation of church and state. We've just seen so many people persecuted for their beliefs and I mean REAL persecution such as with the Salem "witch" trials and whatnot. Also women's rights are being attacked recently too in the past few years because of rightwing Christian's who think they're all more knowing than me and what I believe. The only way you're ever going to get rid of religion is if you take away freewill. It's never going to happen no matter what happens so the only realistic solution is to have a strong separation of church and state.


A big part of why many people are drawn to religion, on their own accord, is fear of the unknown.

The unknown being, of course, death. Now, you can say, "There's nothing unknown about death. You die, and then rot." But this isn't good enough for some people. Why do you think that many elderly people are drawn to religion in their later years in life?

So, I guess my question is, how would Communism defeat this?

Because I don't think you can nail down religion as entirely a factor of exploitation. Possibly organized religion, but people will always have beliefs to explain why they exist; in other words, everyone is the main character in their own story. I don't think that this will ever be eliminated, even if science somehow explains everything.

[INDK]

I was referring to orginized religion as it manifests itself today.

We have science to deal with those problems now.

Ah, but friend if we could explain away the implications of a God with science the Church would've disbanded even by now - though I do understand the immense growth of scientific knowledge kept back by the restrictions of market capitalism and organized religious motives.

[INDK]

SouthernBelle82:

While I agree that it is relatively safe to seperate politics and religion, we must realize that in a market capitalist society - unlike Cuba, by the way - politics and religion, though perhaps seperated on paper, will never be split concepts - even if this is not voiced, the religious capitalist politician is ready to implement measures complying with his God to achieve a profit. Don't believe each constitutional amendment, because those under the constitution don't either.

Further, Marx, among others, theorizes that as society achieves Socialism and science and 'science-ism' flourishes like no advancement made in a restrictive capitalist state, religion will fade to become obsolete, as an organ of class rule and a way to explain phenomena - logic will ultimately prevail among the masses, once logic is actually promoted.

[RebelDog]

Right. It will be more about spirituality but not organized religion. It will become more about your personal relationship with whatever god you believe in and your own spirituality journey. People will come to religion on their own if it's meant for them I think. I strongly believe in separation of church and state and I imagine that will be strong too in a communist society. Not a ban on religion just that separation stronger. Personally I think if you have your religion EVERYWHERE in society you really don't have that much faith in what you believe. I have enough faith in what I do to where I don't have to have it crumbed down my throat.

Spirituality is as much mysticism as is organised religion. We have no more need for either in a libertarian communist society than we have need for human sacrifice to ensure a plentiful harvest. If revolution was an undertaking whereupon private individuals struck out to secure individual freedom for their interests and beliefs from a baseless plain, then it would be fair to assume that we each were out to 'liberate' ourselves from coercion. The reality is that the majority class (proletarians) are fighting to emancipate themselves from oppression and domination and they seek to self-manage society as free men/women without exploitation. This process is the destruction of mystical nonsense which has its roots in ruling-class ideology.

[Dros]

A big part of why many people are drawn to religion, on their own accord, is fear of the unknown.

The unknown being, of course, death. Now, you can say, "There's nothing unknown about death. You die, and then rot." But this isn't good enough for some people. Why do you think that many elderly people are drawn to religion in their later years in life?

So, I guess my question is, how would Communism defeat this?

Because I don't think you can nail down religion as entirely a factor of exploitation. Possibly organized religion, but people will always have beliefs to explain why they exist; in other words, everyone is the main character in their own story. I don't think that this will ever be eliminated, even if science somehow explains everything.

I think that the reason people go to religion around death has to do with the problems in life. That is, people need to believe that there is something better 'cause they wake up every morning and get exploited and oppressed and have to deal with all the shit that goes on here.

Secondly, you should read Dan Dennett's book "Breaking the Spell" that puts forward a very interesting and scientific analysis about religion. Once these specific ideas (God, afterlife, etc) go away, I doubt they will spontaneously regenerate en masse. I think better education, end of scarcity and end of organized religion would take care of the issue pretty much.


Except that that isn't true, so your whole argument goes to shit.

What potent analysis. Say something worth reading or shut up.


Ah, but friend if we could explain away the implications of a God with science the Church would've disbanded even by now - though I do understand the immense growth of scientific knowledge kept back by the restrictions of market capitalism and organized religious motives.

I'm afraid that's not true. Science has explained away God. I'm not sure what you mean by "explain away the implications of a god". Science has done away with God 100%. Again I suggest "Breaking the Spell". This should explain why, even with the existance of irrefutable proof that all organized religion is false, and very very very very (incredibly) good evidence to suggest that there is no God (good enough that I and any reasonable person would consider it a certainty), God and orginized religion still persist.

Another, more Marxist take on it would be that organized religion serves the needs of the Bourgeoisie as dictated by the objective conditions at any time. Only when organized religion no longer serves the needs of continued exploitation of the proletariat will it be discarded.


With religion I think you're totally right and we're seeing that here in the States and have since the pilgrims. What about spirituality? I think organized religion won't be so big under communism but more so spirituality. Organized religion is about evangelizing and exploiting and trying to save and control people to an extent etc. Spirituality however is on another level than organized religion and is about a relationship with what you believe in. I think if you're more spiritual you don't worry about having to force people to believe like you or to spread what you believe. I'm more spiritual than religious and I could care less if my beliefs were spread all over the world and everywhere in society.

I think philosophy fills that need quite well without the obvious disadvantage of having to believe in things that are quite clearly not real.

Firstly, I think there is inherent value in truth.

Secondly, I think any belief in the super natural is dangerous and is almost always reactionary.

Thirdly, I think the material basis is the same and so to will be the ultimate consequence.

[jake williams]

What potent analysis. Say something worth reading or shut up.
The burden of proof is on you to explain how everything which could be called "religion" is caused by capitalism.

[INDK]

'm afraid that's not true. Science has explained away God. I'm not sure what you mean by "explain away the implications of a god". Science has done away with God 100%. Again I suggest "Breaking the Spell". This should explain why, even with the existance of irrefutable proof that all organized religion is false, and very very very very (incredibly) good evidence to suggest that there is no God (good enough that I and any reasonable person would consider it a certainty), God and orginized religion still persist.

Well, if God and organized religion still exist after science has refuted completely the existence, than maybe this evidence isn't conclusive enough to change the mind of a reactionary, a luddite, a Theist? I have been strongly Atheist for as long as I have been called 'Leftist', however I have always found stronger ties to Agnosticism because I really think the burden of proof works both ways - no matter ridiculous the implications.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Well, if God and organized religion still exist after science has refuted completely the existence, than maybe this evidence isn't conclusive enough to change the mind of a reactionary, a luddite, a Theist? I have been strongly Atheist for as long as I have been called 'Leftist', however I have always found stronger ties to Agnosticism because I really think the burden of proof works both ways - no matter ridiculous the implications.

I don't see any concievable way that science can "defeat" religion. People are always going to find ways to justify their existance, I think, and religion is one way to do this.

Didn't Einstein say something to the effect of, "Science without religion is boring."? I think that pretty much sums it up. The cold rationality of science will just never "do it" for some.

[INDK]

Agreed, @ drosera99: No matter how much you, I, or we know firmly in the absence of a God, the idealism of the Church cannot be defeated through 'proving God doesn't exist'. Bottom line, the proletariat will fade into secularity at high levels, I am sure Marx was correct on this, but I dispute people will ever stop using the 'Giant Moral Crutch'.

[SouthernBelle82]

I guess I'm still trying to figure out are you guys talking about religion or spirituality? Spirituality will never fade because of freewill however I can see religion fading over time.


SouthernBelle82:

While I agree that it is relatively safe to seperate politics and religion, we must realize that in a market capitalist society - unlike Cuba, by the way - politics and religion, though perhaps seperated on paper, will never be split concepts - even if this is not voiced, the religious capitalist politician is ready to implement measures complying with his God to achieve a profit. Don't believe each constitutional amendment, because those under the constitution don't either.

Further, Marx, among others, theorizes that as society achieves Socialism and science and 'science-ism' flourishes like no advancement made in a restrictive capitalist state, religion will fade to become obsolete, as an organ of class rule and a way to explain phenomena - logic will ultimately prevail among the masses, once logic is actually promoted.

[SouthernBelle82]

Eh not really. As someone who is spiritual I'm not into much mysticism myself. Only thing I really do is I do a lot of work with energy. I don't worship anyone specifically but I do have a relationship with who I believe in. Does that make sense? I hope I'm not being confusing. I do my own thing and don't explote people or what have you. It seems like only the top three main religions of the world do that. You don't ever see pagans or wiccans or any other earth bound based religion doing any of that.


Spirituality is as much mysticism as is organised religion. We have no more need for either in a libertarian communist society than we have need for human sacrifice to ensure a plentiful harvest. If revolution was an undertaking whereupon private individuals struck out to secure individual freedom for their interests and beliefs from a baseless plain, then it would be fair to assume that we each were out to 'liberate' ourselves from coercion. The reality is that the majority class (proletarians) are fighting to emancipate themselves from oppression and domination and they seek to self-manage society as free men/women without exploitation. This process is the destruction of mystical nonsense which has its roots in ruling-class ideology.