Kliment Voroshilov vs Mikhail Tukhachevsky

[careyprice31]

Who would you have preferred to be in charge of the army during the 1930's when stalin was building up preparing against the rise of fascism in Europe?

I would have preferred Tukhachevsky, he knew more about modern warfare and how to fight with modern weapons. It was necessary vs a building nazi army which used the latest in military technology and wasd the strongest army in europe at the time.

Voroshilov was an old fuddy duddy who only knew mostly about horse cavalry and fighting in old Tsarist times. (He wasnt terribly bright, either.) He was not one for modern warefare and I have no idea why Stalin kept him and put him in charge and murdered Tukhachevsky in June 11 1937.

So you people who know about these two men.....who would you have preferred to fight hitler's army in ww2?

[Intelligitimate]

Tukhachevsky was an anti-Semite, ex-Tsarist officer, who had not participated in any single military conflict the USSR engaged in since the Civil War. To quote from a short biography on Tukhachevsky from the French journalist Remy Roure, recalling a conversation they had while in prison together:

"You are an anti-semite, then, I said to him. Why? -- The Jews brought us Christianity. That's reason enough to hate them. But then they are a low race. I don't even speak of the dangers they create in my country. You cannot understand that, you French, for you equality is a dogma. The Jew is a dog, son of a dog, which spreads his fleas in every land. It is he who has done the most to inoculate us with the plague of civilization, and who would like to give us his morality also, the morality of money, of capital. -- You are now a socialist, then? -- A socialist? Not at all! What a need you have for classifying! Besides the great socialists are Jews and socialist doctrine is a branch of universal Christianity. ... No, I detest socialists, Jews and Christians."

Even Trotsky, on the execution of Tukhachevsky, said "I never considered the Communist convictions of this officer of the Old Guard to be serious."

Goebbels even quotes Hitler: "The Führer recalled the case of Tukhachevskii and expressed the opinion that we were entirely wrong then in believing that Stalin would ruin the Red Army by the way he handled it. The opposite was true: Stalin got rid of all opposition in the Red Army and thereby brought an end to defeatism."

Getting rid of Tukhachevsky saved the USSR, and probably the entire world, from Nazism, as Tukhachevsky was already collaborating with the German Foreign Office in the 1930s. Had the conspiracy not been discovered before the war, the likely outcome would have eventually been a coup against the Soviet leadership and the installation of a military dictatorship around Tukhachevsky, who would have been allied with the Nazis.

[careyprice31]

Tukhachevsky was an anti-Semite, ex-Tsarist officer, who had not participated in any single military conflict the USSR engaged in since the Civil War. To quote from a short biography on Tukhachevsky from the French journalist Remy Roure, recalling a conversation they had while in prison together:

"You are an anti-semite, then, I said to him. Why? -- The Jews brought us Christianity. That's reason enough to hate them. But then they are a low race. I don't even speak of the dangers they create in my country. You cannot understand that, you French, for you equality is a dogma. The Jew is a dog, son of a dog, which spreads his fleas in every land. It is he who has done the most to inoculate us with the plague of civilization, and who would like to give us his morality also, the morality of money, of capital. -- You are now a socialist, then? -- A socialist? Not at all! What a need you have for classifying! Besides the great socialists are Jews and socialist doctrine is a branch of universal Christianity. ... No, I detest socialists, Jews and Christians."

Even Trotsky, on the execution of Tukhachevsky, said "I never considered the Communist convictions of this officer of the Old Guard to be serious."

Goebbels even quotes Hitler: "The Führer recalled the case of Tukhachevskii and expressed the opinion that we were entirely wrong then in believing that Stalin would ruin the Red Army by the way he handled it. The opposite was true: Stalin got rid of all opposition in the Red Army and thereby brought an end to defeatism."

Getting rid of Tukhachevsky saved the USSR, and probably the entire world, from Nazism, as Tukhachevsky was already collaborating with the German Foreign Office in the 1930s. Had the conspiracy not been discovered before the war, the likely outcome would have eventually been a coup against the Soviet leadership and the installation of a military dictatorship around Tukhachevsky, who would have been allied with the Nazis.

Good start to my topic. I did ask for people's thoughts, all kinds of em, agree and disagree. :)

[Psy]

The Germans relied heavily on technology and their technology failed at a high rate in Russia.

So preparing for war Russia should have developed reliable weapon systems that worked well in Russia, this includes relying on extremely wide tracked vehicles (and big wheel trucks) from the start and if possible at the time screw drive vehicles, that probably would have scared the shit out of the German troops as screw drive vehicles would be able cross mud with little effort, thus a crude lightly armoured screw drive vehicle in the impenetrable muck of the Baltic states would have been able to easily pick off German troops while they are unable to put up a descent defence.