Someone please tell me why hate sites are still allowed to exist?

[careyprice31]

I just looked at the stormfront forum and read down through it.

I can honestly say that by the time I was finished, as a person who hates Nazis and any beliefs that are similar and me being a woman, that my hair was literally standing on end and I had goose bumps.

I thought that hate sites were illegal and ppl work, to close them down?

so why are SF and the sites of the Baptist religious nazi freakazoid Fred Phelps (I wont post them here, I wont help him promote his hate sites but they arent hard to find)

why arent they being shut down?

btw nazis are believers in speciesism as well as white race superiority. To them the human race is dominant over all other species (not equal which is what i believe that in the eyes of the planet and nature every being is no more and no less important than the others in the grand scheme of things and to believe otherwise to me is to create classes and divisions and believing in the superiority of one species over another makes it easier to justify things like animal abuse), but specifically to the SF people and nazis around the world the white race is dominant and superior.

This is so wrong ......I am not superior than any of my black friends at university.

Hate site should really be closed down and I dont know why it isnt happening.

[Lector Malibu]

Good question. I can only say it's due to a double standard as to what's allowed and what's not. I was at an anti Nazi rally and as usual the cops where decked out in riot gear and they had snipers on the rooftops of buildings and fire trucks and all that stuff. My friend had been arrested and he left it to me to protect his 12 year old nephew if things got ugly. I'm telling you what those cops where gonna mow us down if things got nasty no questions asked. All in the name of protecting the Nazi's freedom of speech:confused: Makes no sense to me whatsoever and just reaffirmed that there's a double standard and it's alive in well in this country.

[Cencus]

Hate sites exist because they can. There are enough countries with uncontrolled internet access that legally attempting to remove Stormfront etc is not only impractical but pointless, remove it once it will pop up again and again.

Then ask yourself why would I even want to shut down SF? Oh yes it's a hotbed of nazi idiocy but then that means they are all in one place, and it will like this place be thoroughly infiltrated by anti-nazis & the police/secret services of a number of nations.

[Jazzratt]

"Free speech".

[Dr Mindbender]

If you look at history, capitalist governments and their police stooges have always allied with the fascists when it suited their political purposes. Especially when it comes to fighting communism so it should come as no surprise that they would turn a blind eye when it comes to their forums.

For example, the young activist hitler recieved a mere reprimand by the judge after his act of violence at the 'Munich Putsch'. Across Europe, many police officials, notably in Italy are notorious fascist activists or sympathisers.

[There is No God!]

I was on a library computer the other day and Revleft was blocked under 'Racism and hate'.

I don't know if that has much to do with this topic but, yeah, that's fucked.

[Jazzratt]

I was on a library computer the other day and Revleft was blocked under 'Racism and hate'.

I don't know if that has much to do with this topic but, yeah, that's fucked.

It illustrates perfectly the nature of "free speach" in the modern world.

[Bandito]

Because they serve the world opressor well.
So called "free speech" is their instrument. What if Revlefters or some revolutionaries step beyond the point of philosophy and stod up as one to wage war against the capitalism by arms? Would it still exist online? Guess not.

[Sentinel]

btw nazis are believers in speciesism as well as white race superiority. To them the human race is dominant over all other species

Actually, the nazis banned vivisection on animals in Germany, and several of the top party officials (Hermann Göring, who enforced the vivisection ban in the state of Prussia, for instance) held very biocentric views and advocated animal rights.

This may sound weird considering the fact that they experimented on humans, but if you think about it it really isn't -- as animals really can't be elevated to the status of humans in society, 'species equality' in practice equals the degradation of humans instead.

[careyprice31]

Actually, the nazis banned vivisection on animals in Germany, and several of the top party officials (Hermann Göring, who enforced the vivisection ban in the state of Prussia, for instance) held very biocentric views and advocated animal rights.

This may sound weird considering the fact that they experimented on humans, but if you think about it it really isn't -- as animals really can't be elevated to the status of humans in society, 'species equality' in practice equals the degradation of humans instead.

Yep and Hitler himself was a vegetarian.

There is quite a bit of similarity between the nazis and PETA and other such groups. PETA themselves hav had no qualms about harming humans for 'the cause' (its proven they were involved in terrorism and actions which have harmed humans) See they are speciesist because they fight for animals at the expense of human life and progression which is what the Nazis have done.

[F9]

why they still exist?because the "masters" of all things (internet etc) are their brothers they cover each other!:star:

[Everyday Anarchy]

This thread is getting a little ridiculous. There is no fascist conspiracy to block communist sites but not fascist sites. StormFront is not working behind the scenes with ICANN or IANA to ensure that hate sites stay online.

To the United States, StormFront is just as much of a threat as RevLeft. We're both extremes to them and that's dangerous for them.



I can honestly say that by the time I was finished, as a person who hates Nazis and any beliefs that are similar and me being a woman, that my hair was literally standing on end and I had goose bumps.You should take a read through some of the other posts here in Anti-Fascism! Some of us are just as hateful as the fascists.


On the topic of free speech vs. hate speech... If we were to campaign or directly take these websites off of the Internet, we would make more enemies than friends and it would only encourage others to listen more to the "victims" at SF. Maybe instead we should look at WHY people fall for fascist claims. What environments create fascists? These are the things we have to look at and analyze. We should NOT be dictating who gets to say what.

Otherwise, we'd be practicing the same double-standards as all of your "conspirators" have been.

[Vanguard1917]

Actually, the nazis banned vivisection on animals in Germany, and several of the top party officials (Hermann Göring, who enforced the vivisection ban in the state of Prussia, for instance) held very biocentric views and advocated animal rights.

This may sound weird considering the fact that they experimented on humans, but if you think about it it really isn't -- as animals really can't be elevated to the status of humans in society, 'species equality' in practice equals the degradation of humans instead.

Well pointed out. Their heightened view of animals was a result of their degraded view of humanity.

svetlana:


See they are speciesist because they fight for animals at the expense of human life and progression which is what the Nazis have done.

What's the alternative? What is the kind of 'anti-speciesism' that you would support?

---------------------

As to whether or not Stormfront and other 'hate sites' should be allowed to exist: the only progressive stance is to oppose all state censorship of the internet. We should not be calling on bourgeois states to police what can and cannot be said online, or anywhere else for that matter.

[careyprice31]

Well pointed out. Their heightened view of animals was a result of their degraded view of humanity.

svetlana:


What's the alternative? What is the kind of 'anti-speciesism' that you would support?

---------------------

As to whether or not Stormfront and other 'hate sites' should be allowed to exist: the only progressive stance is to oppose all state censorship of the internet. We should not be calling on bourgeois states to police what can and cannot be said online, or anywhere else for that matter.

I asked about you I wanted to find out why the hostility? the person told me u disliked me so i wanted to learn a little about u because it just is strange to dislike someone you've never even spoken to.

and well I was told that you are not that much of an environmentalist (you have an suv as your avatar) and u seem to equate them with the degredation of humanity. It does help to explain your a little hostility to me though.

It is possible to protect the earth and the environment without the degredation of humanity. I have studied animals and the environment and animal behavior for a very long time, such as entomology, biology, and ecology.

hmmmm.....opposing all bourgeois state censorhip of the internet. Interesting thought. I will chew on that for a while. Think about what u said about this. Maybe write more about why should one oppose all bourgeois state censorship of the internet? I'd like to hear those ideas.

[Red_Mackem]

"Free speech".

Dead right, it's one of those wishy washy Liberal things. I might dislike what you are saying but yu have the right to say it. That really pisses me off.

[Sentinel]

why should one oppose all bourgeois state censorship of the internet?

Because we can be next. While I would be very happy to see fascists (among other reactionary elements, such as religions, etc) denied all publicity, and do advocate such a line for a future socialist society, as long as we live in a bourgeois one the coin has two sides. We don't want to end up in a situation like that of several former Warchaw pact countries for instance, where communist symbols etc are banned..


I asked about you I wanted to find out why the hostility? the person told me u disliked me so i wanted to learn a little about u because it just is strange to dislike someone you've never even spoken to.

As far as I've seen -- correct me if I'm wrong -- people have not been hostile towards you, but rather the ideas you hold (or might hold). Do not take it personally. ;)

[careyprice31]

Because we can be next. While I would be very happy to see fascists (among other reactionary elements, such as religions, etc) denied all publicity, and do advocate such a line for a future socialist society, as long as we live in a bourgeois one the coin has two sides. We don't want to end up in a situation like that of several former Warchaw pact countries for instance, where communist symbols etc are banned..



As far as I've seen -- correct me if I'm wrong -- people have not been hostile towards you, but rather the ideas you hold (or might hold). Do not take it personally. ;)

I dont mind people criticizing my ideas.....thats what freedom is.....being able to be yourself (within limits of course).

Vanguard is free to be himself. Not everyone is going to like my ideas. And im ok with that. :)

[Vanguard1917]

Dead right, it's one of those wishy washy Liberal things. I might dislike what you are saying but yu have the right to say it. That really pisses me off.

There is nothing 'liberal' about standing up for freedom of expression. In fact, liberals are some of the main advocates of censorship today. The only consistent opponents of state censorship in capitalist society have been Marxists.

Since you call yourself a 'Trotskyist', you might want to hear what Trotsky had to say on the matter of censorship. For example, see his article 'Freedom of the Press and the Working Class' (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/08/press.htm) where he explains that 'any restriction to democracy in bourgeois society, is eventually directed against the proletariat', and that 'any workers “leader” who arms the bourgeois state with special means to control public opinion in general, and the press in particular, is a traitor'.

There really is no excuse for calling on the bourgeois state to regulate what can and cannot be written or said over the internet.

[Red_Mackem]

Ah I see that Art of Satire is not lost on you.
"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the Death your right to say it."!

Francois-Marie Arouet 21/11/1694 - 30/05/1778

(Better Known as Voltaire)

The Satire of free speech and Liberal.

[INDK]

Supposedly, Free Speech tells that all views are allowed, and all counterviews can act as such. Of course, it doesn't always work that way.

[Dimentio]

The state should not be granted the powers to decide what people might and what thet might not express. If the state is allowed to define opinions that are "bad", they will also censor legitimate opposition.

[Gitfiddle Jim]

It's so called "freedom of speech". Personally, I don't see how showing intense hate for people of different skin colour fits this category. :mad:

[Vanguard1917]

It's so called "freedom of speech". Personally, I don't see how showing intense hate for people of different skin colour fits this category.


Free speech is one of those things which you either have or you don't have. Giving 'freedom of speech' only to those with whom you agree is privileged speech, not free speech.